✈India Aviation | Airlines | Airports News II - Page 853 - SkyscraperCity
 

forums map | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Asian Forums > India > Infrastructure & Transportation > Aviation and Airports


Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old Today, 12:11 AM   #17041
fieldsofdreams
PH + SF Super Moderator
 
fieldsofdreams's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Manila • San Francisco
Posts: 20,124
Likes (Received): 12086

Quote:
Originally Posted by 90sKid View Post
That itself would take up a lot of time (3 hours block time on each leg) plus 2-3 hours total turnaround time. 14-15 hours utilisation is pretty good, IMO.

There was a clown on twitter calling this a poor utilisation of the plane
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indiadreams View Post
That should be around 12 hours of flying. Pretty good for domestic run.
I would actually say 14 to 15 hours is already an excellent utilization rate for an aircraft. Some airlines even run them for 17 to 18 hours (especially low-cost carriers and ultra long haul services) that, if you recall, "airlines make money by the number of hours their aircraft fly around." The rest time of 9 hours in this case can be used, not just to clean up aircraft during turnaround, but also maintain their functions properly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Indiadreams View Post
An airline will not do such guess works unless it plays with taxpayers money without any accountability.

The Ladakh route might have been closed for security reasons.

btw, India-US / Canada routes are not commercially feasible for an Indian airline. Full stop. Pak airspace closure really does not matter.

We don’t have India origin premium traffic to make Ultra long haul flights work. Where do you think AI loses 8000 crores a year!!! A well run Indian FSC may make BOM- NYC work with high yield finance traffic of Bombay. But we don’t have such an FSC!!
Then explain why Air India operates 9x weekly between DEL and SFO, in which occasionally, it upgrades its aircraft from the Boeing 777-200LR to the Boeing 777-300ER. Not to mention, Air India is a full-service carrier that operates with service in mind rather than profits (unlike Cathay Pacific or Japan Airlines or United Airlines).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Indiadreams View Post
Most of the people in the aviation forums think that India’s business links are with US and Europe!

In reality, the bulk of the business traffic is to nearby countries within Asia and a bit to UK and Africa! US business traffic is negligible.

Even the trade with US or even Europe is carried through Dubai or Singapore. MNCs too monitor India through Dubai, Singapore and London. The corporate world and business / trading community have very high linkages with Dubai, Singapore, London and HK in that order. Similarly bulk of our cargo goes through Dubai and Singapore. Having a license raj quota on these routes significantly affects our economy apart from affecting the travel of blue collar workforce working in these places.

Ironically, the government subsidises NRI travel to US and Australia but burdens the predominantly blue collar work force in the Middle East. There is no economic significance in connecting the predominantly VFR traffic to the US.

When India gets the premium traffic as time progresses, Indian airlines will start direct services. Till then no amount of curbs on Dubai and Singapore are going to help Indian airlines. It will just restrict our economic growth!!
Think about this, though: Air India is managed by the government, similar to Thai Airways, Air China, Singapore Airlines (via Temasek Group), Ethiopian Airlines, and many others. Their motive is to link as many destinations as they can without sacrificing the subsidies they receive from their respective governments. It can be significantly easier to develop routes with government supervision, especially if it follows traveler trends. However, it can also be difficult to develop a policy of maintaining a sizable revenue for such carriers without the government giving the airline autonomy on how it wants to develop and maintain its services, similar to Ethiopian. If AI will follow the Ethiopian model of leadership and financial autonomy from the national government, it might free up resources to actually hire more people and buy needed aircraft to spread its wings further.
__________________
Anthony or FOD the MOD • Urban Studies & Planning, SF State, UC Berkeley, and San Jose State
Philippine Forums • SF Bay Area Forums • Bay Area Transit • NEW! SF Bay Area and NorCal in Pictures
Photo Albums: Flickr • Photobucket • Instagram

Pittsburg • Piedmont • Petaluma • Palo Alto • Pacifica • Orinda • Oakley

patel2897 liked this post
fieldsofdreams no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old Today, 04:29 AM   #17042
Indiadreams
indiadreams
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 7,343
Likes (Received): 1846

The great performance of DEL-SFO is a good joke I keep on hearing in the forums. Simply put Air India does not know the cost of each of its flights and loses buckets of money in the US routes. It just looks at revenues generated without associating with cost. Among the US flights, the revenues might be better in DEL-SFO which makes the AI team think that SFO is better. In reality it loses buckets of hard earned tax money paid by poor Indians when they buy basic essential items like vegetables, milk and soap.

In a nutshell, no airline can make profits with that seat configuration. Full stop.

The form and state of Indian government is different from Thailand Monarchy, Chinese dictatorship or nascent Ethiopia. Indian government should not be in the business of airlines and should not use the poor people’s tax ( through diesel tax which increases price of every essential ingredient) and waste it in serving rich NRIs without any economic returns for the country.
Indiadreams no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old Today, 07:19 AM   #17043
90sKid
Outsider
 
90sKid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 2,880
Likes (Received): 3309

Quote:
Originally Posted by fieldsofdreams View Post
Their motive is to link as many destinations as they can without sacrificing the subsidies they receive from their respective governments. It can be significantly easier to develop routes with government supervision, especially if it follows traveler trends.
True. But then, since India is a large country, people not living in Delhi (and Mumbai to an extent) will rightly complain that the 'government' is unfairly focussing only on those cities (wrt non-stops). If the "national carrier" sets out to do a social duty of connecting cities, then it should go beyond just the two big cities, right? Especially since their losses are being borne by every Indian, regardless of where they live. I know that there is a commercial argument for flying from BOM/DEL, but i'm pointing out that AI's public service of linking foreign destinations with DEL is not going down well with tax-payers in other cities.

This is why I agree with ID that the government should simply not be in the business of flying planes. Privatise AI and let the new owner launch routes based on commercial merits. Let the government instead reform our antiquated aviation regulations. Make it easier for every aspiring Indian city to develop its own air routes.

However, the less said the better about our Governments ability to reform the aviation sector.
__________________

fieldsofdreams liked this post
90sKid no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old Today, 08:04 AM   #17044
fieldsofdreams
PH + SF Super Moderator
 
fieldsofdreams's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Manila • San Francisco
Posts: 20,124
Likes (Received): 12086

Understandable. But I think Air India should look into either the Ethiopian model (independent of government oversight leadership and funding-wise, yet it still receives assistance from the government) or the Philippine Airlines model (fully privatized, yet it still finds way to maintain profits while spending on aircraft improvements).

And by the way, how about this: are either Air India, Indigo, or another Indian carrier interested in acquiring the new Airbus A321XLR? Use this range map (of 4,700nm) from Delhi as your guide on where you can send that new aircraft to...
__________________
Anthony or FOD the MOD • Urban Studies & Planning, SF State, UC Berkeley, and San Jose State
Philippine Forums • SF Bay Area Forums • Bay Area Transit • NEW! SF Bay Area and NorCal in Pictures
Photo Albums: Flickr • Photobucket • Instagram

Pittsburg • Piedmont • Petaluma • Palo Alto • Pacifica • Orinda • Oakley

patel2897 liked this post
fieldsofdreams no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old Today, 08:46 AM   #17045
somersalf
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 122

Quote:
Originally Posted by Indiadreams View Post
An airline will not do such guess works unless it plays with taxpayers money without any accountability.

The Ladakh route might have been closed for security reasons.

btw, India-US / Canada routes are not commercially feasible for an Indian airline. Full stop. Pak airspace closure really does not matter.

We don’t have India origin premium traffic to make Ultra long haul flights work. Where do you think AI loses 8000 crores a year!!! A well run Indian FSC may make BOM- NYC work with high yield finance traffic of Bombay. But we don’t have such an FSC!!
Pakistan does have route Islamabad-Gilgit-Xinjiang route open, many Dubai-China/Korea/Japan flights use that route. It is very close and parallel to Pathankot-Ladakh-Xinjiang route. So security should not be a problem.

Foreign flight travel service is like imports. And quota is like tariffs. But problem is that Indian half of the quota doesnt get filled, despite we having decent number of Indian operators doing good in the sector. That means there is not much market demand. Govt should increase bilateral quota only after Indian half of the quota is sufficiently used up.
__________________
Bangalore Redditor
somersalf no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 


Reply

Tags
airlines, airport, airports, aviation, india

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
India Airports & Aviation: Pictures ONLY Suncity Aviation and Airports 2922 May 2nd, 2019 05:04 PM
Bangladesh Airports and Aviation Tmac Heritage, Tourism & Infrastructure 2201 September 5th, 2008 07:51 PM
[Croatia] - Airports & Aviation III Ballota Zrakoplovstvo 536 September 29th, 2007 02:12 PM
India - Aviation/Airports/Airlines Suncity Aviation and Airports 4856 March 20th, 2007 09:02 PM


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 01:42 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us