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Old June 17th, 2019, 05:29 PM   #461
jonathanNCJ
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notice how many broken windows almost every coach.
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Old June 17th, 2019, 05:29 PM   #462
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Old June 17th, 2019, 09:08 PM   #463
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Very sad to see so! The overall build quality looks extremely shoddy. Paint bubbling and peeling off. Can't blame rock throwing on that. I guess we can write off the first one as a prototype. Hopefully quality is much better now.
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Old June 18th, 2019, 01:04 AM   #464
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Yes, the flush window glass edge bonding where it meets the body seem to be coming apart. I am guessing this whole window design and construction was in house ICF train-18 specific project. What is needed is for ICF to source window componetns and build process (and furnishing and all other components as well for that matter) from specialist OEM suppliers, who specialize in those products and who have proven technology, designs and quality. So India/ICF needs to build an entire ecosystem of such suppliers to source from. This is how auto companies and even aircraft manufactures mass manufacture reliable and high quality products. Doing it all in house yourself will result in these sort of problem.
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Old June 18th, 2019, 07:09 AM   #465
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Are the windows broken due to manufacturing defect or stone throwing? I read the quite a few windows were broken from stone throwing during the trial phase.

What about damage to the front? Did it hit an animal?
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Old June 18th, 2019, 09:39 AM   #466
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Are the windows broken due to manufacturing defect or stone throwing? I read the quite a few windows were broken from stone throwing during the trial phase.

What about damage to the front? Did it hit an animal?
Must have hit something. Maybe it fell off and was put back. It doesnt look very strong

Interesting the front windshield is intact.. So no real stone throwing incidents
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Old June 18th, 2019, 12:16 PM   #467
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Must have hit something. Maybe it fell off and was put back. It doesnt look very strong

Interesting the front windshield is intact.. So no real stone throwing incidents
Wow! What a judgment.
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Old June 18th, 2019, 12:48 PM   #468
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Wow! What a judgment.
ok the train was running without the nose cone last year. Maybe they damaged it while taking it off and on and storing it . Is that better
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Old June 18th, 2019, 12:52 PM   #469
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The train keeps on hitting cattle and that's the cause of damage.
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Old June 18th, 2019, 01:28 PM   #470
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3 major stone pelting so far
Dec 20
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...w/67179702.cms
Feb 2
https://www.news18.com/news/india/tr...n-2023203.html
Feb 22
here no pelting but rajdhani hits holy cow and drags its acroos tracks and ballast flew and showered its blessing.
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...w/67179702.cms
18 march
https://www.indiatoday.in/india/stor...110-2019-03-18


rest are Chernobyl related and No miscreants were identified and never have been for all the above incidents. It's Up what do we need to expect
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Old June 18th, 2019, 01:54 PM   #471
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It is the reflection, don't blame the mirror!

Freeze the video at 1:24, then do high speed freezes between 1:24 and 1:25.

The "peeling and other defacement" appears at the start and then magically vanishes on the same exact surface of Train 18 as the train moves forward.

That means that the camera caught the reflection when the angle was right, but that is nothing more than a reflection.

The ICF teams have been building coaches for a while. Expect them to use at least the same reasonable materials and their considerable experience in building the outer surface. Dust and abrasion resistant surfaces are a well-established technology.

That is not to say that occasional stone throwing is not a problem in India or outside India. But the "reflection peeling etc" we see is a long term wear of the other train in which the guy with the camera is.

As someone wrote in the other thread here, a problem in India is the rush to assume that everyone else is a fool and/or corrupt, they are smarter/cleaner than everyone including all engineers, doctors, experts and everyone else.

Reality is more complicated. In modern mega cities built by non-residents such as Dubai, the largest group and the most sought after workers, engineers, technicians, managers, caregivers are from India, Nepal and Philippines.
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Old June 18th, 2019, 02:43 PM   #472
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June 14 2019 video of the same train shows surface in a much better condition. The misleading 'reflection video' above is a bit older.

In both videos, coach NR 188333 painted outside and other numbers are visible, so it is likely the same train set.

Scuff marks are visible in both in a few spots outside, but these can washed/waxed off. You see similar scuff marks on DB, SBB, TER, etc elsewhere.

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Old June 18th, 2019, 05:07 PM   #473
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It would be really disappointing if even after 10 years of so called pro infra gov we won't have atleast one decent semi HSR running across the length and breadth of the country
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Old June 18th, 2019, 05:42 PM   #474
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With Train 18's 160 km/hr (tested at 180 km/hr), you already have a semi-HSR. That is about the top speed in many of the intercity train services in the European countries. That is the top speed on over half of the Amtrak network in the USA.

Vande Bharat has a limit service, and it is not across length and breadth of the country yet.

A lot depends on how fast the parallel tracks of good quality and proper banking/curving are laid and how many train sets are built every year.

Instead of across the length and breadth, the more appropriate strategy might be to increase the daily frequency of reliable intercity services based on Train 18 and its future versions, between the major hub cities, and between the major metropolitan centers and nearby cities. A train every 3 hours in either direction between cities separated by less than 350 kilometers, for example.

Increasing the frequency and schedule convenience is how Japan Railways prospered.

Higher frequency services boosts the economy, creates jobs and makes the railway station into valuable public spaces and retail centers.

In Japan, the most profitable part of the rail operations have been the railway stations as town's and city's major retail/shopping/services/hotels center.
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Old June 18th, 2019, 06:34 PM   #475
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Cow hitting the nose cone would break it. This article says the nose cone was replaced after it hit a bull. This damage on the video is much less than that, probably due to poor handling

Interesting that the front windscreen was damaged by ballast. Maybe thats the main reason for the famous grills. Looks like IR needs to dampen down the ballast

https://www.hindustantimes.com/india...MLAMGUGRM.html


Quote:
On February 22, the train’s aerodynamic nose, which is made of steel with a fibre cover on it, was damaged severely and had to be replaced after a bull hit it from the front. A day later, the driver’s windscreen and windows of some coaches were damaged after being hit by flying ballast .
Quote:
“In the new rake, a sturdy aluminium-clad nose cover has been provided to avoid damage due to cattle being run over. Special anti-spall film on windows has been installed to avoid damage due to stone pelting,” said another official.
Anyway most of the improvements can be retrofitted . The train did not suffer a single incident of down time. So there is no reason to not mass produce these trains
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Old June 18th, 2019, 06:45 PM   #476
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Originally Posted by carrera7 View Post
Cow hitting the nose cone would break it. This article says the nose cone was replaced after it hit a bull. This damage on the video is much less than that, probably due to poor handling

Interesting that the front windscreen was damaged by ballast. Maybe thats the main reason for the famous grills. Looks like IR needs to dampen down the ballast

https://www.hindustantimes.com/india...MLAMGUGRM.html






Anyway most of the improvements can be retrofitted . The train did not suffer a single incident of down time. So there is no reason to not mass produce these trains
This is actually a cause of accidents involving the TGVs when they go on the legacy lines- they often end up hitting random vehicles that strayed onto the tracks. This never happens when they're on the LGVs, their dedicated high-speed corridors, which are cut off totally. Fencing is a necessity, high-speed or otherwise.
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Last edited by Arjun_M; June 18th, 2019 at 09:14 PM.
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Old June 18th, 2019, 06:55 PM   #477
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Originally Posted by philebus View Post


With Train 18's 160 km/hr (tested at 180 km/hr), you already have a semi-HSR. That is about the top speed in many of the intercity train services in the European countries. That is the top speed on over half of the Amtrak network in the USA.

Vande Bharat has a limit service, and it is not across length and breadth of the country yet.

A lot depends on how fast the parallel tracks of good quality and proper banking/curving are laid and how many train sets are built every year.

Instead of across the length and breadth, the more appropriate strategy might be to increase the daily frequency of reliable intercity services based on Train 18 and its future versions, between the major hub cities, and between the major metropolitan centers and nearby cities. A train every 3 hours in either direction between cities separated by less than 350 kilometers, for example.

Increasing the frequency and schedule convenience is how Japan Railways prospered.

Higher frequency services boosts the economy, creates jobs and makes the railway station into valuable public spaces and retail centers.

In Japan, the most profitable part of the rail operations have been the railway stations as town's and city's major retail/shopping/services/hotels center.
They can start with the nine designated higher-speed corridors (except Mumbai-Goa, that will take a lot of doing) and build parallel tracks along the same alignment. Then start joining the ends or sides of the Golden Quadrilateral with parallel tracks. These parallel tracks will have only Train-18 units.
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Old June 18th, 2019, 07:04 PM   #478
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This is actually a cause of accidents involving the TGVs when they go on the legacy lines- they often end up hitting random vehicles that strayed onto the tracks. This never happens when they're on the LGVs, which are cut off totally. Fencing is a necessity, high-speed or otherwise.
whats LGV

Agreed, it looks like loose ballast is also a problem which is not the case with High Speed tracks, which is mostly ballast less

So with fencing, ballast needs to be machine laid and firmly pounded in place
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Old June 20th, 2019, 08:03 PM   #479
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New Delhi: Further manufacturing of the much-acclaimed Vande Bharat Express, the indigenously built trainset which is made at the Integral Coach Factory in Chennai, has come to a halt as it has fallen under the radar of the national transporter’s internal vigilance department.

According to sources, the internal vigilance department is inquiring into the purchase of electrical equipment for self-propelled trains, which includes the Train-18 project at ICF.

This comes, sources say, apparently after the railways ministry received internal and external complaints alleging that undue favour was shown to a domestic company. The external complaints were made by a few multinational companies and vendors.



The Train-18 project has also been a source of intense inter-departmental rivalry, with the mechanical and electrical wings of the national transporter fighting over a number of issues. The project is currently being handled by the mechanical wing, although there has been internal lobbying to transfer it to the electrical department.

Railway insiders told The Wire that departmental rivalry, backed by multinational interest, has now put a brake on the further manufacturing of trains.

Amid the the fight between two traditional rivals, the indigenous trainset has become a casualty, with sources saying that work is unlikely to resume until the vigilance inquiry gets over.

The 16-coach Vande Bharat Express, flagged off by Prime Minister Narendra Modi in February 15, is running successfully between New Delhi and Varanasi with 100% occupancy.

Though the train faced technical snags on its inaugural launch, these were quickly sorted out and since then, Train-18, the first locomotive-less train operation, has been a success story for the Indian Railways.

In fact, the ICF has been sanctioned to manufacture a total of 40 Vande Bharat trains over the next three years – ten in 2019-20 and 15 each in the next two years.

Sources say that this project has now been temporarily grounded as the vigilance department has paid a visit to the ICF and taken files related to purchase of electrical equipment for the Train-18 programme.

When contacted for a statement regarding this development, a railways spokesperson declined to comment, saying that this was “speculative information”.

In May 2019, The Hindu had reported on the possibility of a vigilance directorate inquiry over allegations that the Train-18’s development team had not obtained proper technical approval for the project’s electrical systems.

Over the last two years, the Railways had floated the tenders for manufacturing of trainsets twice. But both the times, the bids were discharged as no players came forward for it.

Finally, the ICF went ahead in manufacturing the first locomotive-less train indigenously in record time: 18 months.
Lesson to be learned from Babus: How to a Kill ( rather than enhance) the product

Source:
The Wire
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Old June 20th, 2019, 08:09 PM   #480
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Originally Posted by MumbaikarNRI View Post
Lesson to be learned from Babus: How to a Kill ( rather than enhance) the product

Source:
The Wire
The Wire is a propaganda outlet that wants to see this Government and all its initiatives fail. It is licking its lips at the prospect of failure of this initiative.

We're not sure what's happening there. The ruling party highlighted proliferation of Train-18 as an election promise, so they have to live up to that. The PMO may even intervene, if needed. As stated earlier in this thread, this may be planted news by a disgruntled supplier, and haterags like The Wire are regurgitating that.
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