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Old May 18th, 2018, 10:23 AM   #61
dysharmonica
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More from Denmark, after 2 years of struggle, they finally for "first of class" prototype finished on the dominant train class in Denmark's long-distance rail service the IC3 class

This was one of two train classes that were deemed high risk for finding ways to fit the computers onboard

from the article:

The IC3 train, which Banedanmark and Alstom have used as a test crane for the installation of the new signal system, were split into the attempt to find space for the many new cables. Illustration: Büreau Janzen



More: more at Ingeniøren - ing.dk
(link in danish)
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Old May 24th, 2018, 06:49 PM   #62
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https://www.railjournal.com/index.ph...ml?channel=532
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NIPPON Signal, Japan, has awarded Thales a sub-contract to install ETCS Level 1 on rolling stock and the two sections of the Red Line commuter rail line in Bangkok which will be operated by State Railway of Thailand (SRT).
...
This really is turning into a global standard.
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Old May 26th, 2018, 11:53 AM   #63
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First in Indonesia, ETCS L1 is fitted to the upcoming LRT Palembang too. The wayside signalling is provided by local supplier PT. Len Industri (Persero).

I don't know who's the supplier of ETCS equipment, but PT. Len Industri has partnership with Altpro for the PZB installation on Pantura (North Shore) Main Line so maybe they partnered with Altpro too for ETCS.

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Old May 26th, 2018, 02:59 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swede View Post
https://www.railjournal.com/index.ph...ml?channel=532


This really is turning into a global standard.
It is also interesting that ETCS hardware is finding its way in to non-ETCS systems. For example: the Swiss ZSI-127 system uses ETCS hardware. It makes a lot of sense to do that.
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Old February 1st, 2019, 01:20 PM   #65
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I was wondering lately: Even when you compare ERTMS to its most advanced predecessors (like LZB, TVM, EBICAB, ATB-NG) ERTMS is massively more complex. That complexity is more or less the inevitable consequence when you want to create the Swiss army knife of train control systems.

This complexity however now severely hampers its adoption. But how did we get here? Why did they make ERTMS so massively complex and maybe much more complex then it needed to be? Like I read in an article recently: 'We managed to get from 27 national systems to 50 ETCS implementation variants and that number is still rising.'
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Old February 4th, 2019, 12:46 PM   #66
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That is not totally fair. As an example, Italy alone was having (and still has) many variants of signalling, each one with its own rules in terms of speed, braking distances and so on - all things that ETCS has to encode. It's way more than representing red, yellow and green sequences.

Actually, ETCS has provided some extra motivation to "clean up" national rules, at least to some extent...

ETCS is mainly a technological effort. Hardware has been unified, and also software protocols have been to a great extent. The content of ERTMS messages is still different, and will have to be as long as there are national traditions and rules.

I am not negating the issue that you describe, not at all, but my point is that ETCS is anyways a step towards simplification. It does not look like that because it is the first time that national systems have to coexist in the same hardware, and differences create issues that before were solved with extra equipment. Now you have one hardware with N softwares, before you needed N separate hardwares.
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Old February 4th, 2019, 01:31 PM   #67
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Backwards compatibility is a bitch, though it beats not having it.

I am curious how far they have come on forwards compatibility. An all-new system with no legacy components could be relatively simple, and there should be a path from encoding all existing complexity and incompatibility to that "clean slate-ish" state.
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Old February 12th, 2019, 01:04 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davide84 View Post
I am not negating the issue that you describe, not at all, but my point is that ETCS is anyways a step towards simplification. It does not look like that because it is the first time that national systems have to coexist in the same hardware, and differences create issues that before were solved with extra equipment.
That would have actually been a very good concept. Migrate all national systems to unified hardware and only then migrate them to a unified software.
I think they at first may have underestimated the effect of the different procedures and rules per country on the complexity of ERTMS.
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Old February 12th, 2019, 04:40 PM   #69
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Quote:
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That would have actually been a very good concept. Migrate all national systems to unified hardware and only then migrate them to a unified software.
This is exactly what is happening. Track hardware and train hardware are unified, as an example see EuroBalise.

But I agree that the software complexity might have been underestimated. Plus, there were changes during the process, e.g. according to Wikipedia (but also matches some things I heard elsewhere) Switzerland developed a custom variant that was better matching its legacy system. Probably the original idea was that every network would have migrated to ERTMS L2 ASAP, while actually every country started to tweak the L1 protocols to touch its infrastructure and rules as less as possible...

On the bright side, there seem to be agreement that L2 is still the long-term goal for major lines in all countries, plus it is the default installation for the majority of new lines. It will still take another 30-40 years to really be "the" signalling system.
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Old February 13th, 2019, 07:44 AM   #70
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The long term goal is L3, because only then the full potential of ERTMS will come to light. But as to date there has not been a full-option L3 project (ERTMS regional is L3-'light').
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Old February 15th, 2019, 09:30 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davide84 View Post
On the bright side, there seem to be agreement that L2 is still the long-term goal for major lines in all countries, plus it is the default installation for the majority of new lines. It will still take another 30-40 years to really be "the" signalling system.
SBB has decided that they will no longer modernise/upgrade any existing conventional signalling towers. In stead ETCS L2 will be installed wherever conventional signals reach EOL. This is already happening on the Lausanne - Brig line, where between Vevey and Villeneuve all signals have now been removed and the line operates using ETCS L2.
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Old February 15th, 2019, 11:55 AM   #72
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Speaking of Switzerland, something funny is happening on EC trains to Italy. Allegedly they cannot run on the newly-opened HS line between Milan and Brescia because their ETCS "is not the right version". It's funny because the EC from Zurich to Venice takes the time slot of one of the internal trains from Milan to Venice operated with Trenitalia High Speed trainsets and usually running on the new line...

I think this is the kind of issues that are making people think ETCS is crazy

Good news is, this is going to be fixed soon: https://www.smartrailworld.com/alsto...-ertms-upgrade

In the meantime, another news: in Italy the first regional engine with ERTMS has just been put into service (http://www.ferrovie.it/portale/articoli/8159, Italian only). It is a 160 km/h electric engine and it will likely be used on the Firenze-Roma line, which is the only HS line with regional traffic; they are planning to remove the standard signalling which is a limiting factor for the line capacity.
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Old September 10th, 2019, 02:22 PM   #73
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Three 2019 press releases from Trafikverket about ERTMS in Sweden:


2019-06-14
https://www.trafikverket.se/for-dig-...ms-programmet/
Quote:
Statistik från år 2018 visar på fortsatt positiva resultat för det nya signalsystemet ERTMS. Både antalet fel och antalet förseningsminuter är väsentligt lägre på banorna med ERTMS jämfört med de konventionella banorna.[...]
Statistics from 2018 show continuing good results for the new signalling system ERTMS. Both the number of errors and the delay-minutes are substantially lower on the lines with ERTMS compared with the conventional lines.[...]


2019-07-04
https://www.trafikverket.se/for-dig-...-pa-malmbanan/
Quote:
Signalanläggningen på Malmbanan mellan Riksgränsen och Boden moderniseras och byts ut för knappt tre miljarder. Torsdagen den 4 juli började arbetena i närheten av Gällivare.[...]
The signalling system on Malmbanan [the Ore Line] between Riksgränsen [the National Border - it's a specific place on the border, not just the border in general] is being modernized and replaced for a cost of 3 billion SEK. On Thursday the 4th of July the works began near Gällivare.[...]


2019-08-27
https://www.trafikverket.se/for-dig-...ngs-malmbanan/
Quote:
Boende i närheten av Malmbanan kan påverkas av störningar när järnvägen moderniseras och digitaliseras.
Entreprenadarbetena pågår längs hela Malmbanan med start mellan Gällivare och Kiruna samt vid Krokvik och Rautas norr om Kiruna.
Kablar kommer att läggas längs järnvägen, och teknikbyggnader kommer att ställas upp vid banan. Allt arbete sker på Trafikverkets mark.
Utbyggnaden startade sommaren 2019 och förväntas bli klar 2026.[...]
Residents near Malmbanan can be effected by disturbances when the railway is modernized and digitized.
The construction works are on-going along the whole line starting between Gällivare and Kiruna and near Krokvik and Rautas north of Kiruna.
Cables will be laid along the railway, and tech buildings will be placed along the line. All work will be on Trafikverket land.
The construction started the summer of 2019 and is expected to finish in 2026.[...]
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Old September 10th, 2019, 09:15 PM   #74
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I don't know what all that means.
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Old September 11th, 2019, 11:25 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silly_Walks View Post

I don't know what all that means.
I did translate the main points inside the quotes.

TLDR;
The lines with ERTMS are now clearly more reliable than the non-ERTMS lines.
The line going from near the top of the Baltic Sea, via the mines at Gällivare and Kiruna, to the Norwegian Atlantic port at Narvik - that line has now started construction works to implement ERTMS and will be done in 2026.
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Old September 13th, 2019, 12:10 AM   #76
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Sorry about that, I started reading the first sentence of every quote, and couldn't make heads or tails of it. Didn't even see the translated bits.
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