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Old March 1st, 2018, 10:41 PM   #41
LadyAmanita
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^Oh, how dare the rest of us (along with a decent number of architects and other such professionals) have opinions, or voice them.
If you like the idea of people having no say and keeping their mouths shut, China or Russia might be good fits. And ugliness is quite subjective- I've heard quite a few people bemoan the sleek glass, silver-blue facades that a LOT of new buildings are going up with these days as ugly and lookalike too.

On another note, Here's some of 270's almost brand new mechanical equipment.
https://www.jdpmechanical.com/270-park-avenue/
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Old March 2nd, 2018, 06:11 AM   #42
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Sure everyone has the right to voice an opinon, but not every opinion makes objectivly sense. A lot of the wishes that nimbys express towards developers are just attempts to moan around for gains. A lot of nimbys just dont want progress to happen because of construction noise issues, which is part of living in a city like NYC. I bet a lot of these "activits" also simply enjoy to stir things up. There are cases where preserving buildings makes sense as i said but sometimes even remarcable buildings go and are replaced by new wonders, a slight hint towards the ESB. Look at pictures of 1930 midtown, had that been preserved we wouldnt have the version of NYC that we do have now and that people worldwide enjoy and admire. People are so consumed by the idea that things should be static. In the end in many nimby cases the only the only thing that these activists acchieve is to raise the price tag on projects. The entitlement is huge with them, IMO. Like the complains about the design of the affordable units annex on 1 Manhattan Square. What do these people expect, marble cladding ala 50 HY? I am all for voicing opinions but I am also for keeping thing realistic, I am for preserving the character of the city, but I am also for progress and the reinvention of a city.
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Old March 2nd, 2018, 06:41 AM   #43
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I can't speak for everyone who takes issue with this particular project, but the objections I've heard have nothing to do with construction noise or just wanting to stir things up.

There are a good many people who believe that this building is worth saving, being one of the better examples of its kind. People have also raised issues of environmental sustainability- this building underwent a virtual gutting and rehabilitation only six years ago. Seems a waste to take it down when there are other nearby buildings in far worse condition.
Notice how nobody campaigned or petitioned to save 425 Park Avenue, or argued that perhaps it deserved landmark status. There are a lot of lousy midrise buildings built shortly after WW2 in that neighborhood which would be better places for such a tower. Hell, with those kind of space requirements, Chase could easily anchor one of the two currently unbuilt towers at the WTC site.
Yes, there are some NIMBY types who would freak out over plans to redevelop a toolshed, but it's not fair to lump any and all objectors in with them.
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Old March 4th, 2018, 09:20 PM   #44
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Something I just found..seems like an abuse of the whole concept of air rights, really. This doesn't sit well with me at all.
http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article...state-20180227
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Old March 4th, 2018, 11:59 PM   #45
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Quote:
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Something I just found..seems like an abuse of the whole concept of air rights, really. This doesn't sit well with me at all.
http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article...state-20180227
eh dont read too much into it. Even if its part of a rich-get-richer ploy, they're still contributing to improving the neighborhood.

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They will have to pay at least 5% of that amount, or roughly $10 million, to fund maintenance for Grand Central Terminal, which is controlled and operated by the Metropolitan Transportation Authority. The owners will also have to pay a portion of a $40 million contribution to public-realm improvements in the neighborhood that are required under the rezoning plan.
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Old March 5th, 2018, 06:26 PM   #46
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Disgusting project. That skyscraper should be heritage listed. Why don't they just build somewhere else?
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Old March 5th, 2018, 09:44 PM   #47
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Disgusting project. That skyscraper should be heritage listed. Why don't they just build somewhere else?
Heritage? Its a box
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Old March 5th, 2018, 11:28 PM   #48
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One of the best examples of the International style out there. Not its fault that it's got a ton of imitators whose architects didn't do as good of a job.
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Old March 5th, 2018, 11:47 PM   #49
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Heritage? Its a box
This is the same kind of attitude as those who tore down "tacky" Victoriana and Art Deco in the 60s.

Boxes can't be heritage? At what particular shape does it count as heritage? Is sculptural decoration the only necessity for heritage status?

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Old March 6th, 2018, 12:10 AM   #50
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Heritage? Its a box
but its a handsome, 200m tall box. Quintessential midcentury New York. Its not like what they have on Sixth.

I hope Chase preserves the tower and builds something like this on the Madison Avenue portion.

Conceptual Supertall Design Revealed For 265 West 45th Street, Midtown West



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Old March 6th, 2018, 12:15 AM   #51
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Quote:
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Heritage? Its a box
Agreed. Decent example of an international style box, but nothing more.
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Old March 6th, 2018, 05:31 AM   #52
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For some reason this concept towers roof reminds me of a bladeless Dyson fan. Its a lovely and strong concept that should be build.

About 270, it is definitly a better example of an international style tower, it surely has details on it that set it apart from its neighboring international style towers. But if we speak of preserving it, how long should we preserve this tower and make the very block it sits on unable to grow and adapt for todays needs? The international style introduced by the Seagram tower and the Lever House was a revolutionary style to enhance from and function and reduce a building to be efficient. I feel like Mies van de Rohe and other architects of that era didnt really think of building something that should be preserved, i wouldnt be suprised if they would endorse a replacement for better functionality and efficiency. I can understand why people wanna have certain buildings preserved and I have the same feelings to towards certain buildings. But then I remind myself that a city should never stagnate and act as an open air museum of architecture. I see the current boom and redeveloping efforts as a huge oppurtunity to reduce the amount of boxes in the city, add more diverse architecture that give the city new fresh and distinctive landmarks and break the plateau and make the skyline soar again. And I also see it as a chance to leave a historic mark for our generation in the cities architecture history.
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Old March 6th, 2018, 07:00 AM   #53
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Maybe some of us see history as worth saving. Preserving our built history doesn't have to preclude new buildings- there are plenty of early postwar midrises around that would be far better candidates for redevelopment than this one.
This isn't an either-or situation.
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Old March 6th, 2018, 08:15 AM   #54
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Why do you think that this tower has historic values?
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Old March 6th, 2018, 09:33 AM   #55
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To be honest I think the existing building looks quite nice on the photos, but in the context of the city it really isn't noticeable at all. I remember walking along the road this building is on during my trip to NYC a year ago, but I do not remember seeing this building at all. I remember the building next door, 383 Madison Avenue, but the standard person will really not notice this building at all. After all, NYC has much better examples of the same architectural style such as the Seagram Building.

Edit: Also I just read this article, which claims this building was an IMPROVEMENT over the Seagram building, but having seen both, the Seagram building is much more impressive IMHO. The NIMBY's are really going strong with this one. What's next, claiming it's more important than the Chrysler Building?
https://www.archdaily.com/889563/som...-be-demolished
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Old March 6th, 2018, 10:17 AM   #56
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Next thing they will say is destruction of this building is anti women and misogony cause it was designed by a woman.
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Old March 6th, 2018, 08:45 PM   #57
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To be fair, a lot of architectural laypeople wouldn't notice much of anything special about Lever House or the Seagram building either.
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Old March 6th, 2018, 09:48 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by germantower View Post
Why do you think that this tower has historic values?
I'll refer you to the New York Times obituary for the architect, Natalie de Blois. In it, architecture and built environment critic David Dunlap refers to de Blois' work on "three of the most important corporate landmarks of the 1950s and ‘60s — the headquarters of Lever Brothers, Pepsi-Cola and Union Carbide".

You may not care for it. And you may not think there's inherent value in the works of notable women who made early strides in fields dominated by men. But when the architecture critic of New York's paper of record thinks it belongs in that esteemed company, we shouldn't pretend this is just "some box."
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Old March 6th, 2018, 11:09 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarshallKnight View Post
I'll refer you to the New York Times obituary for the architect, Natalie de Blois. In it, architecture and built environment critic David Dunlap refers to de Blois' work on "three of the most important corporate landmarks of the 1950s and ‘60s — the headquarters of Lever Brothers, Pepsi-Cola and Union Carbide".

You may not care for it. And you may not think there's inherent value in the works of notable women who made early strides in fields dominated by men. But when the architecture critic of New York's paper of record thinks it belongs in that esteemed company, we shouldn't pretend this is just "some box."
I applaud the pioneering spirit of Natalie de Blois. She achieved success and acclaim in a field dominated by men. She deserves to be in the esteemed company of those men who, like her, designed some boxes.
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Old March 6th, 2018, 11:15 PM   #60
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One thought just crossed my mind, imagine if they hire BIG to design their new building. :-D
Then they could replace a box with some stacked boxes.
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