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Old February 6th, 2018, 02:02 PM   #1
odlum833
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NDP 2018 | €115bn to be spent on infrastructure over 10 years

The new National Development Plan is to be announced soon and is said to contain big projects - DART Underground and Metro North among them.

Varadkar says he'll splash the cash on infrastructure.

The NDP will be announced in the coming weeks.

What do you want to see in there?
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Old February 6th, 2018, 02:59 PM   #2
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M20 - this is vital.
I'd suggest also maybe dualling Tuam to Sligo and then try and get it up to Letterkenny but I'd say this is a pipe dream.
Maybe light rail for Cork.
I wonder if even planning the widening of the entire motorway network to 3 lanes would be a good option?
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Old February 6th, 2018, 03:36 PM   #3
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I know it won't happen but the Outer Orbital Motorway for Dublin is needed to bypass the M50. Would also open up vast swathes of Kildare and Meath for housing. If this was complemented by DU,MN and improved commuter rail services then Dublin may finally being to match European standards for transport.
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Old February 6th, 2018, 05:17 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred_Johnson View Post
I know it won't happen but the Outer Orbital Motorway for Dublin is needed to bypass the M50. Would also open up vast swathes of Kildare and Meath for housing. If this was complemented by DU,MN and improved commuter rail services then Dublin may finally being to match European standards for transport.
Do we really want more housing in Kildare and Meath? Maybe sort out the planning laws and build proper high density (high rise) housing along with MN and DU and get more people living in Dublin.

Building the M20 and sorting Corks infrastructure deficit needs to be done too to try to create an alternative to Dublin along the M18-M20 corridor.
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Old February 6th, 2018, 05:33 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Limericklad View Post
Do we really want more housing in Kildare and Meath? Maybe sort out the planning laws and build proper high density (high rise) housing along with MN and DU and get more people living in Dublin.

Building the M20 and sorting Corks infrastructure deficit needs to be done too to try to create an alternative to Dublin along the M18-M20 corridor.
Yes we do want more housing in Kildare and Meath, because families with kids will want suburban living and it's not really possibly to provide that affordably in Dublin anymore. By all means increase the density of Dublin, we'll have to do both. Fully agree with the M20 and infrastructure in Cork but again it's not an either/or choice...the population is increasing so rapidly we'll need infrastructure and housing everywhere.
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Old February 6th, 2018, 10:13 PM   #6
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They've already outlined some major commitments;

Quote:
The plan, which was discussed by Ministers at a special Cabinet meeting on Monday night and is being finalised in the coming weeks, will feature new and existing commitments, including the Cork-Limerick motorway, a second runway at Dublin Airport, expansion to the Dart rail system in Dublin, a schools building programme, a garda ICT system and a rural regeneration fund.
Nothing definite in regard to DU and MN though.

Quote:
Government sources acknowledge that the plans will prioritise the development of cities outside Dublin, but stress there will be a “strong regional element” also. “The whole point is to move growth away from Dublin,” said one high-ranking source.


If that's the thinking then I don't see Dublin securing both DU and MN, never mind talk of things like an outer orbital motorway.
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Old February 6th, 2018, 11:48 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by odlum833 View Post
The new National Development Plan is to be announced soon and is said to contain big projects - DART Underground and Metro North among them.

Varadkar says he'll splash the cash on infrastructure.

The NDP will be announced in the coming weeks.

What do you want to see in there?
Means nothing without a definite commitment to start dates for M20, DU and MN.

If you don't get those this is merely more bullocks from the political system that specializes in bullocks
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Old February 7th, 2018, 01:37 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by belfastuniguy View Post

Nothing definite in regard to DU and MN though.
MN is certainly going to be included. I imagine they'll give a vaguer commitment to DU over the longer term, Donohoe previously said it was "over-engineered". Will have to wait and see but really if they had any sense it would be included. It's a no-brainer requirement for Dublin over the short, medium and long term.
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Old February 7th, 2018, 01:42 AM   #9
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I’m inclined to agree. I think MN will get the go ahead and be funded while DU will be kicked further into the long grass which is unfortunate as it’s just as essential.
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Old February 7th, 2018, 02:04 AM   #10
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MN already has the go-ahead, it just needs to keep getting it until such a time where it is irreversibly progressed.
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Old February 7th, 2018, 10:53 AM   #11
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The Capital Plan will basically be a commitment of funding for projects for which funding was previously committed. There will be nothing new, just reannouncement of projects which have been previously flagged or progressing (very slowly) already. The likes of the M20, M28, Galway bypass, etc. Will be there.

DU certainly won't be happening any time soon but the plan will most likely include DART expansion to Balbriggan/Drogheda and/or Maynooth. Expansion to Maynooth is absolutely necessary to serve north Kildare and west Dublin, I don't really see the need for northern line expansion. Furthering the electrified network will reduce the cost of DU in the future as this was included in the original cost. KRP2 is another no-brainer imo.

Not a discussion for this thread but I don't understand why people always talk about an outer bypass. It would remove a small level of long distance traffic from the M50 but the traffic that causes the connection on the M50 is moving in and around Dublin and an outer bypass would do nothing to alleviate this.
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Old February 7th, 2018, 12:18 PM   #12
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I'd wager the same people who talk about an outer bypass are the same ones who complain about low income families existing.
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Old February 7th, 2018, 03:08 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjohnoston View Post
I'd wager the same people who talk about an outer bypass are the same ones who complain about low income families existing.
Har, har, hilarious. Any more mindless virtue signalling or straw men arguments from you? Moderator showing his bias by not deleting that off topic comment too.
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Old February 7th, 2018, 06:06 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjohnoston View Post
MN already has the go-ahead, it just needs to keep getting it until such a time where it is irreversibly progressed.
Which, given the total lack of priority given it, will likely be when the TBMs are actually in the ground.
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Old February 7th, 2018, 06:56 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred_Johnson View Post
Har, har, hilarious. Any more mindless virtue signalling or straw men arguments from you? Moderator showing his bias by not deleting that off topic comment too.
I don't think it's "virtue signalling" at all, and certainly not a strawman argument as I didn't mean it to refer only to you (although, what are you so mad about? That you seem to hate poor people is more than borne out by your posts on here).

Simply this - the idea of an Outer Bypass motorway is rooted in a deeply selfish belief that the priority for expenditure on infrastructure in this country should be to service private motorists. That by itself is a routinely selfish mode of transportation. I don't think it's much of a stretch to suggest a good amount of the supporters of such an idea are supportive of other selfish political ideas.

Let's build public transport instead of building more roads, it's a pretty basic idea.
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Old February 7th, 2018, 06:58 PM   #16
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Did they dust off the old plan from 2005 and change the date on the cover?


.
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Old February 7th, 2018, 07:39 PM   #17
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Yes, and they'll do the same again in another decade. We mean it this time!™
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Old February 7th, 2018, 11:59 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by belfastuniguy View Post
I’m inclined to agree. I think MN will get the go ahead and be funded while DU will be kicked further into the long grass which is unfortunate as it’s just as essential.
Actually, DU is much more important.

The farce of Luas XC clearly illustrates that.
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Old February 8th, 2018, 11:04 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjohnoston View Post

Let's build public transport instead of building more roads, it's a pretty basic idea.
You forget the M50 is a single point of failure in the national network and that it..and the Cork South Ring...need backup roads after Cork-Limerick is finally built.
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Old February 8th, 2018, 12:30 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by sponge_bob View Post
You forget the M50 is a single point of failure in the national network and that it..and the Cork South Ring...need backup roads after Cork-Limerick is finally built.
You could argue that it's only a single point of failure because of the lack of quality public transport to act as an alternative.
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