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Old September 13th, 2019, 05:17 PM   #321
pierremlouw
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All this is going to do is scare off the view developers and construction companies we still have operating in town.
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Old September 13th, 2019, 05:23 PM   #322
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So what exactly is it that these developers are depriving poor people from?

Is the property being built on public land?

Are people being evicted or displaced?

New development = more jobs, more rates and taxes, more economic activity
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Old September 13th, 2019, 07:19 PM   #323
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How many times do I have to say this: It is not the mandate of private developers to provide social services... period! That is the job of government and government must implement policies that enables economic growth and development to be spread more evenly. It's not the developer that is responsible for providing land, providing Gap, low-income, or subsidized housing.

This will clarify Ndifuna Ukwazi's real efficacy and political leanings: How many times have they gone after Transnet and other national government entities for holding on to the majority of under-developed land close to the Cape Town CBD?
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Old September 14th, 2019, 03:15 AM   #324
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Quote:
Originally Posted by annman View Post
How many times do I have to say this: It is not the mandate of private developers to provide social services... period! That is the job of government and government must implement policies that enables economic growth and development to be spread more evenly. It's not the developer that is responsible for providing land, providing Gap, low-income, or subsidized housing.

This will clarify Ndifuna Ukwazi's real efficacy and political leanings: How many times have they gone after Transnet and other national government entities for holding on to the majority of under-developed land close to the Cape Town CBD?
They are not going after the developers though?

Quote:
It says the Vogue case is intended to “clarify the powers and obligation of the city to impose affordable housing conditions in private developments as a form of equitable redress and, secondly, to compel the city to expedite its inclusionary housing policy”.
They are pushing CoCT to clarify its housing policy. It is either mistaken or disingenuous to push this as an "attack" on developers.

It is not unusual across the world for municipal authorities to have various requirements for private developers to ensure housing affordability. This ranges from rent control to various rules/regulations regarding the affordability of developments wrt. to median income of residents etc.

To repeat - Ndifuna Ukwazi is an NPO. Unlike the developer it does not stand to make any profit or lose money from the approval of particular developments.

Who else is supposed to represent the interests of the poor residents of CT against the government? Should they just shut up and accept that the Cape Town CBD will never have affordable housing?

I am not commenting on this specific development but the general argument being made here that Ndifuna Ukwazi is somehow stupid or useless or counterproductive. That is completely unfair. You can disagree with their arguments or tactics but that is just going too far.

This 3-4 pro-bono lawyers standing up for the poor against a multibillion dollar industry and massive government administration.
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Old September 14th, 2019, 03:29 AM   #325
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What are you talking about? There are affordable housing initiatives all over the place right now. The city and DA are plainly pro-affordable housing. They are upgrading and building parks and doing all the right stuff - in very, extremely trying conditions.
For example in Hout Bay, when they tried to put services in and widen the roads - the residents (lets not forget mostly just illegal squatters) went all rioty and blocked them from working - and then continued to blame the 'racist' city and DA for not providing services.

As annman said, when this group starts lobbying transnet and other govt entities about the huge amounts of wasted land right next to the city, we might take them seriously.

Right now they are simply holding up valuable development. Why the Vogue and other towers CBD ground zero, most expensive land available? Where are they in Woodstock, Salt River etc which makes a million times more sense for affordable housing?
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Old September 14th, 2019, 03:44 AM   #326
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Have you actually followed what the organisation is doing at all? Or are you just attacking them without doing any research on their campaigns and successes.

It was specifically through actions by Ndifuna Ukwazi and the Reclaim the City movement that CoCT made a commitment to develop affordable housing in areas like Woodstock and Salt River. This was literally a direct result of their campaigning.

Furthermore it has continuously criticised the administration of CoCT, NOT private developers for failing to provide affordable housing or live up to its commitments. Often CoCT announces plans for development of affordable housing but fails to follow through.

To now go back and say, what are they doing in Woodstock and Salt River is unbelievably misinformed and disingenuous. You do not even bother to look up what work they are doing.

Quote:
In 2017, our campaigns resulted in a commitment from the City of Cape Town to develop 8 new parcels of public land for affordable housing in the Woodstock and Salt River areas. For the first time, the City adopted the slogan that “Where people live matters”. This is a significant commitment which will, on completion, release up to 4000 housing units for poor and working-class families.

Three of these parcels have been issued to social housing companies for the development of public housing lead mixed-use precincts. Five further parcels have been put out on public tender. The City has put binding conditions on each development regarding the extent and nature of the affordable housing component, with scope for mixed-use mixed-income precincts.

Too often plans are announced and sit in turgid pipelines. Having secured this commitment, activists at Ndifuna Ukwazi and Reclaim the City intend to monitor the implementation of these plans and hold the City accountable to deadlines to ensure the efficient rollout and delivery of these projects.
We want to see bricks and cement on time and ensure that this approach is scalable. We needs hundreds of new housing projects like this.
https://infrastructurenews.co.za/201...using-project/

http://nu.org.za/reclaim-the-city/
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Old September 14th, 2019, 04:43 AM   #327
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So, you are taking that as fact then? That this was all down to them that the city decided to act - because they themselves are claiming that?
I do know what they are doing - and as I have made clear, I am all for it when it is logical and practical.
Targeting developments like the Vogue and Zero2one is neither of those things.

There are a hundred reasons why plans fall through, it not the city just losing interest. And affordable housing was on the city agenda long before this group was formed.
Do you know there was not even a budget for upgrading townships when the DA took over from the ANC. That only happened when Zille came in, and frankly the CoCT and the DA have done mountains of good work all on their own.
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Old September 14th, 2019, 09:43 AM   #328
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Yes absolutely, these organizations are holding illegal protests, trespassing on private property, and illegally occupying buildings. They've done absolutely great things for our city.

Now they are gambling with billions of Rands of badly needed investment in our economy, potentially costings us even more jobs in the construction industry, that's already in chaos.
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Old September 14th, 2019, 09:23 PM   #329
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NicSA. You know quite a lot about Ndifuna Ukwazi? Almost like you work for them Thanks for filling us in.

I do agree with what you are saying regarding the reasons behind their actions. But from an outsider, it does seem extremely radical. I really wonder what their long term strategy is. Because they have done this for a while and not much has changed?
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Old September 14th, 2019, 11:24 PM   #330
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Perhaps we should look into Ndifuna Ukwazi funders and their funders funders...I smell a rat.
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Old September 14th, 2019, 11:38 PM   #331
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From their website. Heavily anti-white, heavily anti-developer, heavily laden with political speak. Then again have a look at their team. It speaks volumes.

From their website:
#StopTheLease of City Owned Land
Despite a profound housing and segregation crisis, the City of Cape Town continues to lease well-located public land for next for bowling greens, parking lots, golf courses, and other inefficient and exclusive uses. It has become common for the City to lease public land to private sports clubs and associations that are mostly accessible to a wealthy white minority living in the area. Many of these leases find their origin in apartheid and even colonial city planning decisions.

For example, in Green Point, there is more public land being leased for this use than anywhere else in the city. And while preserving some public open space is important, we have to ask who is benefitting from the status quo and at what expense to the city as a whole? Mostly, the City has not intentionally revised it’s own land use in terms of its obligations under the Constitution to advance redress and equitable access to land and housing. In a housing crisis we can’t tolerate a business as usual approach to leased land.
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Old September 15th, 2019, 04:18 AM   #332
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Heavily anti-white? I'm sorry but what on earth are you talking about? Recognizing racial disparities in housing developments in Cape Town and saying more needs to be done about it is not "anti-white". The lawyers representing Ndifuna Ukwazi are white themselves by the way.

Anti-developer? Again not true. They are just pushing for more stringent requirements for imclusive housing to be included in developments and to require developers to actually prove that it is impossible to include such housing in their developments rather than the city (and members of this forum) accepting their arguments at face value. Developers will always have a profit incentive to minimize the amount of affordable housing in any project and arguing that all social housing is the responsibility of the public sector is a complete abdication of responsibility. It is like polluting factories demanding national governments pay them subsidies to switch to green energy.

Political speak? Of course! Housing in SA (and every country in the world) is a profoundly political issue. In fact even those opposing Ndifuna Ukwazi explicitly politicize the issue by saying it is the responsibility of government not developers to take care of affordable housing.
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Old September 15th, 2019, 09:36 PM   #333
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Give me a break, even a blind person can clearly see that these Ndifuna(which means I want) mafia are anti-white and anti-developers. They want business to spend money on housing the poor while the narc ANC and EFF spend theirs, oops sorry, OUR MONEY on Gucci. Everything in South Africa has become ndifuna this, ndifuna that from white people. ndifuna the land, ndifuna the jobs, ndifuna to tax the white people, the list goes on and on.....in addition to nkwazi or did they meant ndifuna nfazi…..the entitlement mentality of these idiots is killing South Africa. White lawyers are finally catching on this trending stupidity, so why not cash on it while it lasts? By the time the DA takes over the governance of this country from these ndifunas, they will have collapsed every business and chased away all investors from this country.
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Old September 16th, 2019, 03:17 AM   #334
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Pretty depressing that some people here are so cynical that they cannot even imagine a lobby group representing housing rights of the poor that does not have some ulterior motive.

Of course go ahead and disagree with their arguments or their strategy but attacking them as if they have some hidden motive or, even more strangely, are somehow racist or anti-development is just depressing cynical.
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Old September 16th, 2019, 02:14 PM   #335
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NicSA raises an interesting point, we should all be supportive of efforts to improve access to housing, so lets runs with it and have a look at NU and their activities a bit more closely.

Per their Annual Report 'The Trust is a non-profit organisation of a public character, established to promote the full appreciation and realization of social justice, equality and human rights of all people living in South Africa.'

My first comment here is that for a group looking after the interests of all people in south Africa they have a curious, and perhaps myopic, focus on Cape Town, this is quite odd given that the plight of the poor is far worse in other parts of the country but lets ignore that for now and like NU just focus on Cape Town.

What are the biggest challenges facing the poor in Cape Town? The list is long but in my experience, with people I work with and interact with, the biggest issues are (in no particular order):
  • Safety with-in their neighborhoods, this is particularly problematic across the Cape Flats and whilst there is no quick fix for this its clear that the police in these areas are under resourced (low staffing numbers, poor training, lack of cars/fuel, etc)
  • Unreliable, unsafe means of public transport, due to the continually declining situation at PRASA which is forcing people to commute by road (taxi's and bus) which takes longer and costs significantly more
  • Lack of access to affordable housing in close proximity to the CBD

In context to the above its curious that NU has focused only on the latter ignoring activism directed at PRASA (responsible for Metrorail and controlled by National Government) or SAPS regarding the policing issues on the flats (with policing controlled of course by..... National Government) in particular as positive outcomes in these could be achieved in much shorter time frames than rolling out social housing in skyscrapers (which takes years of planning and construction) but lets ignore these for now and focus, like NU, only on Housing.

Delivery of social housing is ultimately a National government competence and by their own admission they have failed spectacularly, both in terms of land reform (despite existing constitutional tools to expropriate land), dealing with land claims and principally delivery of social housing. The Human Settlements department is underfunded and much like other government departments is beset by rampant corruption. I cant recall NU having anything to say or do with respect to National government addressing the housing backlog...

A case in point is District 6 in which instance the government owns the land on which houses are to be built and given back to claimants and yet in 25 years they have managed to deliver houses to just 10% of claimants. With even low densification the land could accommodate significantly more housing than is required to be delivered back to claimants, its in easy walking distance of the CBD. This housing could be delivered far more affordably (much lower cost structure) and quickly than in a high rise in the CBD and yet NU has said, well, nothing on this issue.

But lets ignore national government, who is constitutionally obligated to provide housing and have a look at social housing companies. Communicare is an established social housing company which owned a prime site on the Foreshore, which has an ideal shape and size (narrow and rectangular) for high rise inclusionary housing that could provide at least 400 (yes, four hundred) units that was GIVEN to them by the city. However instead of developing it they sold it. Given NU's fixation with high rise social housing in the CBD its unconscionable that they remained silent on this transaction. Of course the reason Communicare sold the site is that with the costs of high rise structure it was simply not viable for them to develop it as social housing, for the same development cost they could deliver double the amount of housing in 6 to 8 storey structure or 4 times the quantity of housing in 4 storey walk up format in peripheral (but still easily accessible to the CBD) locations. Why was NU silent on this transaction which is only 150 metres from site B! I did'nt want to go into site B in detail but i was at the auction and associated with a company that was the underbidder (second highest bidder) and we walked away stunned at the price they paid as we were convinced we had a mandate to bid to a level that would secure the property, we had a coffee on Roggebaai Square literally discussing what they could possibly know that we didn't... The city knew that if they had clarified the bulk allocation to the site they could have achieved a much higher price but seemingly ignored this to and prioritised a quicker sale to raise funds more quickly, sheer stupidity and gross incompetence, NU were quite right to interrogate this transaction but why let Communicare of the hook? The answer is quite simple, it would have resulted in the truth coming out, its simply not viable to develop affordable high rise structure and if a social housing company cant make it work with zero land cost and subsidised funding how on earth can you expect the private sector to be able to deliver it?????

Now lets have a look at what seems to be NU's primary focus and strategy. They are specifically targeting developers (despite NicSA suggesting that they aren't in earlier post), there primary tool is objecting Developers applications unless they include social housing. This is, in very simplest form blackmail. To suggest that NU aren't attacking developers is mind mindbogglingly ignorant of the reality. Yes they are also doing so, in part, to highlight the need for the city to formulate an inclusionary housing policy but surely it would be more effective to take a more direct and less antagonistic approach? Why don't they put out a policy paper indicating what they would like to see and have professionals test the viability of these to ensure they are workable? I even think it would be possible to bypass the city and approach developers, understand the economics of development (something that they either choose to ignore or don't understand, it would be alarming if its the latter because its not that complex and if your primary focus is provision of housing you should at bare minimum understand the costs and funding required) to come with means of generating inclusionary housing with out impacting on the feasibility of schemes? This of course would garner far less attention in the media and generate far fewer photo ops.

Per another post of NicSA's earlier in which NicSA/NU claim to have succeeded through their activism in getting the City to commit to developing affordable housing in Woodstock / Salt River is utter trite. I personally know people who were involved in those proposals and at best their campaigning expedited the process. Its tantamount to Trump claiming that he is winning the Tariff War with China or that his negotiating tactics with North Korea have been successful in stopping North Korea developing nuclear weapons.

But enough on their "success" lets take a look at the impact of their strategy, I know I have covered this before in other posts on other threads but some of the posters in this thread seem to either not have read these or conveniently forgotten them....

NU’s actions are perversely having a negative impact on the affordability of housing in the city, limiting economic growth and job creation as well as limiting tax revenue to government that could be utilised for social housing;
  • By stalling developments in the city they are reducing the quantity of new housing stock coming on the market which reduction in supply (and consistent demand) will mean that rent and prices remain high. The trickle down effect of new developments is quite obvious in that older existing rental properties will become vacant as people move into the new developments with those units being almost certainly offered in the market at lower rentals.
  • As construction projects are delayed by their actions the already strained construction sector will need to employ fewer workers and likely result in further bankruptcies in the sector, this will not only limit economic growth but also push up construction costs (as a result of fewer construction companies and therefore a less competitive tendering environment) and make new developments even less affordable as well as being detrimental to employment number (in an already severely restrained economy thanks to the Zuma years)
  • By preventing developments going ahead they are also reducing income and capital gains taxes due to national government and limiting the rates revenues collectable by the city, these revenue sources could be used for social housing if efficiently spent (big clue here, the real reason for poor service delivery in general and social housing in particular is poor allocation of taxes by national government, corruption and inefficient spending – if they really were interested in speeding up the delivery of social housing these would be the issues they would be addressing). The rates revenue from The Vogue alone to the city should be in the magnitude of R6MM per annum, escalating at say the rate of inflation and payable in perpetuity, this revenue alone could subsidise atleast 100 social housing opportunities.

If they are really concerned about the provision of affordable housing why aren't they using their time and money to:
  • Lobby government to make social housing grants more accessible and inline with current day costs
  • Lobby government to increase the budget allocation to Human Settlements
  • Lobby government to release vast tracts of accessible underutilized centrally located government owned land, like Wingfield and Ysterplaat, for affordable housing (these land parcels are easily accessible to the CBD and other commercial nodes like Century city, Montague Gardens, etc)
  • Lobby their funders to set up funds to develop social housing

Why don't they go to developers and say they will support additional bulk, and height, applications, provided they use 50% of that bulk for social housing (with revenue from the other 50% subsidizing the build costs) and get their professionals teams to offer their services for free (I have tested this with a few and all support the idea) on the inclusionary housing components and lobby banks, or their donors, to provide funding at discounted rates?

They could even use funding from their donors to offer to buy units from developers at cost and let these to qualifying applicants?

But no, instead of being co-operative and looking to find solutions they seem to prefer being combative, antagonistic and counter productive.

Their very narrow focus and antagonistic strategy with its highly negative consequences are suggestive of an ulterior motive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NicSA View Post
Pretty depressing that some people here are so cynical that they cannot even imagine a lobby group representing housing rights of the poor that does not have some ulterior motive.

Of course go ahead and disagree with their arguments or their strategy but attacking them as if they have some hidden motive or, even more strangely, are somehow racist or anti-development is just depressing cynical.
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Old September 16th, 2019, 07:03 PM   #336
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I appreciate you taking the time to articulate this issue so eloquently and to not only highlight the problem, but to also offer a solution.

This organisation is an example of 'loud empty activism.' They perceive their value in 'appearing to do something' than to 'actually do something.'

It's in vogue now to stand against something, rather than to stand for something... because the latter actually takes proactive vision and intelligent strategy, rather than a reactionary, visceral response.

Populism in the world, on both the Far Right (in America for example) and the Far Left (in SA for example), is driving me f**king nuts. It's a world gone to stupid, the lowest common denominator: a devolution of modern civilisation.
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Old September 17th, 2019, 08:07 AM   #337
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Bravo!
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Old September 22nd, 2019, 08:16 AM   #338
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diggerdog View Post
What are you talking about? There are affordable housing initiatives all over the place right now. The city and DA are plainly pro-affordable housing. They are upgrading and building parks and doing all the right stuff - in very, extremely trying conditions.
For example in Hout Bay, when they tried to put services in and widen the roads - the residents (lets not forget mostly just illegal squatters) went all rioty and blocked them from working - and then continued to blame the 'racist' city and DA for not providing services.


As annman said, when this group starts lobbying transnet and other govt entities about the huge amounts of wasted land right next to the city, we might take them seriously.

Right now they are simply holding up valuable development. Why the Vogue and other towers CBD ground zero, most expensive land available? Where are they in Woodstock, Salt River etc which makes a million times more sense for affordable housing?
Further to the above, this - from twitter.
This is the norm in our country now, starts with the ANC 'leaders' and crawls down to the bottom like toxic sludge. And then they blame foreigners or white monopoly capital or just whites in general and even 'clever blacks'
We need radical change - just because we had one revolution, does not mean we aren't going to have another. You read it here first...

RWT
@R_W_Tee

A little story..
So a few years ago the Hout Bay people collected funds to uplift Imizanu Yetho. There was a luvly ceremony and the Elders were presented with the funds.
The Elders ran away with the money never to be seen again.
The end.
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Old October 17th, 2019, 07:30 AM   #339
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The Vogue has it's own new website.

FWJK just hired Lew Geffen Sotheby's to promote the mixed-use development.

https://thevogue.capetown

The development has been revised to add a luxury hotel to the new scheme.

https://thevogue.capetown/downloads/dev-packs/hotel.pdf

The Vogue is an exciting new mixed-use development to be built in the heart of Cape Town’s CBD. The development is located on Buitengracht Street between Prestwich and Mechau Street.

Once complete, The Vogue will be a timeless architectural classic, ensuring an attractive and secure mixed use development. It will provide an opportunity for home owners and investors to own apartments and/or AAA grade office and retail space at cost price, without having to pay the premium of a conventional developer’s profit.

THIS 37 STOREY BUILDING WILL CONSIST OF:

• 1,900 m² of prime retail
• 10,650m² of prime office space
• 145 key hotel
• 255 apartments
will range from 27 m² trendy studio apartments to a 392 m² luxurious 3/4 -bedroom penthouse
• Provision for parking
- 1 bay per one-bedroom unit and 2 bays per two, three and four bedroom units
- 1 bay per 100m² of Sectional Title retail area - 10 bays for hotel - 3 bays per 100m² of internal Sectional Title office area which will all be right of use bays and belong to the Body Corporate. If there are additional bays available these will be rented out by the Body Corporate and will reduce the levies for all owners.

First rate 24/7 manned security with access control, incorporating the latest security monitoring technology that will ensure peace of mind for all owners and tenants.
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Old October 17th, 2019, 08:33 AM   #340
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Glad to see that the old brick chimney is being retained ( in the planned arcade ).Could become a tourist attraction!
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