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Old January 28th, 2007, 09:28 PM   #21
Elizabeth Kinoke
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Taking it that Alpha tower is 100 metres tall to the top of the roof, if we get that render as it is... we are looking at a sheer vertical face of 160 metres high to the tallest fin, this is ten metres taller than BT tower and in a taller position on a ridge, that is 100% correct if the im,age is to scale and the web site states that they provide renders that are true to scale for developers, its one of their sales points.
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Old January 28th, 2007, 09:28 PM   #22
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Here's the updated SketchUp model which you can download to Google Earth. The Arena Square Tower model is at 141m to the roof, though as Woody has mentioned, it will be taller then this. It lacks some of the detail in the Pipers model, but it's a decent representation. Have a play around with the angles and stuff. Just remember to have Terrain turned off.

http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehou...442277430a480c
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Old January 28th, 2007, 09:30 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elizabeth Kinoke View Post
Martin, like I said it may yet be taller but even so we all knew roughly how tall it would be so I am surprised at people thinking it may have been taller, I was actually told about 45 storeys but this will be the equivalent to a 50 storey building which is what was originally planned.

What don't you like about the design, I am really surprised you don't like it
Look, let me just get one thing clear - if this was a completely different tower on a location elsewhere in the city then I would accept it. But it's not. It's the "hallowed" "jewel in the crown" that is Arena Central - which was planned to be one of the tallest towers in the UK - and, lest we forget, a definitive architectural statement. So, what we have here effectively is a statement which says "sorry but we tried to get it designed taller but we just couldn't find it in ourselves to achieve this, will this do?" That's why I find it unacceptable in every aspect. It looks like an excuse.

Lizzie - it's a ******* BOX at the end of the day! A fat squat wide box which makes up for its lack of height with width (like BST before it). It's no irony that it sits on the Broad Street corridor - which, in keeping with its name, is comprised almost exclusively of "wide" towers / slabs (take a look for yourselves) - is this intentional by the way?? It will NOT be a "soaring" tower by any stretch of the imagination. For a start it's not tall enough. It's not even 500ft which would at least be the minimum height for this project to at least pacify me. Just like HCT is nowhere near 400ft (383 ft to be exact).

There are none of the sleek profiles that were constantly hinted at in all the so-called exclusives that have been posted up on this sub-forum for the last 3 years or so. Let's not forget we were promised that this structure would be "...truly iconic" and possess a crowning feature / spire that would be completely different from (and indeed be the envy of) any UK city. What's been unveiled so far? A slightly diagonal top with bog all else to give it that extra "thrust". And look at the facades - they're no different from the Leeds and Manchester structures - again it's generic and so derivative and it's been done to death before. It's not revolutionary in the slightest. It's just a jagged mish mash - completely uninspired (there is a pun there somewhere).

It might look like a crystal tower but its lack of height is what I object to first and foremost. If Eric Kuhne chooses to throw away the chance to design a tower to the permitted 175m maximum by opting for 160m then he's effectively pissed away the city's ONLY chance of a tower that is well over 500 feet tall..... THIS is what rankles with me the most.

The whole bloody thing just stinks of compromise.

And Birmingham of all places used to be be bold and courageous in its "uncompromising" modern architecture (Central Library anyone?) which through the decades has both gained appraisal AND repulsion in equal measures. This one hardly inspires excitement from me at all, just dismay and, ultimately, frustration.
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Old January 28th, 2007, 09:30 PM   #24
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Thanks for that van! I havent bothered to start a model of it yet. I find it difficult to work out the shape so I just end up drawing a rectangle...
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Old January 28th, 2007, 09:31 PM   #25
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Am I right in saying that this will be going up in tendem with BST, the Cube and Snow Hill Tower ? Following on will be the new Nat West Tower plus whatever surprises we may get from Gt Charles St and Colmore Plaza 2. That's not forgetting the Pinnacle, not bad going when you put it all together.
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Old January 28th, 2007, 09:37 PM   #26
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well, a sign of good architecture, its splits opinion!
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Old January 28th, 2007, 09:37 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erebus555 View Post
Even Lumiere? I think Lumiere is way better. It's gorgeous.
Lumiere in Leeds is going to be stunning. As will Criterion Place (both of these are around 50 floors high). Leeds will have at least TWO soaring giants of truly eye-popping appearance in as little as three years time. Birmingham will just keep getting short squat fat boxes of shit. I've never felt so insulted.
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Old January 28th, 2007, 09:40 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin G View Post
Look, let me just get one thing clear - if this was a completely different tower on a location elsewhere in the city then I would accept it. But it's not. It's the "hallowed" "jewel in the crown" that is Arena Central - which was planned to be one of the tallest towers in the UK - and, lest we forget, a definitive architectural statement. So, what we have here effectively is a statement which says "sorry but we tried to get it designed taller but we just couldn't find it in ourselves to achieve this, will this do?" That's why I find it unacceptable in every aspect. It looks like an excuse.

Lizzie - it's a ******* BOX at the end of the day! A fat squat wide box which makes up for its lack of height with width (like BST before it). It's no irony that it sits on the Broad Street corridor - which, in keeping with its name, is comprised almost exclusively of "wide" towers / slabs (take a look for yourselves) - is this intentional by the way?? It will NOT be a "soaring" tower by any stretch of the imagination. For a start it's not tall enough. It's not even 500ft which would at least be the minimum height for this project to at least pacify me. Just like HCT is nowhere near 400ft (383 ft to be exact).

There are none of the sleek profiles that were constantly hinted at in all the so-called exclusives that have been posted up on this sub-forum for the last 3 years or so. Let's not forget we were promised that this structure would be "...truly iconic" and possess a crowning feature / spire that would be completely different from (and indeed be the envy of) any UK city. What's been unveiled so far? A slightly diagonal top with bog all else to give it that extra "thrust". And look at the facades - they're no different from the Leeds and Manchester structures - again it's generic and so derivative and it's been done to death before. It's not revolutionary in the slightest. It's just a jagged mish mash - completely uninspired (there is a pun there somewhere).

It might look like a crystal tower but its lack of height is what I object to first and foremost. If Eric Kuhne chooses to throw away the chance to design a tower to the permitted 175m maximum by opting for 160m then he's effectively pissed away the city's ONLY chance of a tower that is well over 500 feet tall..... THIS is what rankles with me the most.

The whole bloody thing just stinks of compromise.

And Birmingham of all places used to be be bold and courageous in its "uncompromising" modern architecture (Central Library anyone?) which through the decades has both gained appraisal AND repulsion in equal measures. This one hardly inspires excitement from me at all, just dismay and, ultimately, frustration.
that in mind at least you won't feel the need to visit the Arena Central thread any more Martin

You're pain and anguish is finally over, you finally know what it will look like and I have to be honest I get the feeling nothing would have pleased you with this, we will have to aggree to disagree, I think its a blinder at 160 metres tall, at least you won't have to look at it up there in Stockport

Seriously I bet you feel a little relieved really, its time to move on now mate, get over this and look forward now becasue this is what we're getting and its 40 metres better than HCT

What sums this up is last night a friend walked past Alpha Tower and couldn't get over how tall it is, he loved the straight lines that run along the side right to the top, now imagine something 60 metres taller again right next to it.
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Old January 28th, 2007, 09:42 PM   #29
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If we ignore Arena Central, sorry Arena Square tower, I'm still excited to see the rest of the devlopment go up,



Will this mean they'll get a move on with it?
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Old January 28th, 2007, 09:42 PM   #30
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You think I could just drop it that easily Elizabeth? You obviously don't know me very well.
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Old January 28th, 2007, 09:44 PM   #31
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god no, not bad at all imo

van, just to let you know that you having taken into consideration the change in land height!

there is nealy an extra 20m in height dfference... hct approx 121m and ac 139m, so hct at 122m ac in comparison will be (150 to 160) +20m
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Old January 28th, 2007, 09:48 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elizabeth Kinoke View Post

What sums this up is last night a friend walked past Alpha Tower and couldn't get over how tall it is, :
They'd never been to Manchester, Leeds, London or Liverpool then?
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Old January 28th, 2007, 09:54 PM   #33
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Martin G

Look on the bright side, it would appear that FLD has done a runner!
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Old January 28th, 2007, 10:00 PM   #34
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FINALLY!
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Old January 28th, 2007, 10:01 PM   #35
Elizabeth Kinoke
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Quote:
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You think I could just drop it that easily Elizabeth? You obviously don't know me very well.
well to be honest Martin I don't really think you will have much choice but to accept it which is why I am offering some friendly advise, how is this going to effect you?

You wanted an 176 metre tower from a fictional picture, there was a good chance it would never even be a tower at one point and now you have a 160 metre tower without the need for a spire of far better design and quality IMO than the initial one, I am not being mean Martin but I don't think I can take much more of the negativity, its quite simple, if you don't like it please that's cool but unless you can elaborate on..

I ******* hate it rah rah rah ******* HELL, WNAKERS, WASTE OF TIME BULLSHIT, MISERY, DEATH, ARENA CENTRAL 15 ******* METRES SHORT OF ITS ORIGINAL PLANNED HEIGHT!!

etc, etc, I am with you that it would be good to have it slightly taller but its realistic and I just don't share your pessimism on this any more, it will effect me a lot as I will see it on a regular basis and I have to say it is better than anything planned or built outside of London at present and that is my opinion which I satnd by 100%, I am taking into account the look of the materials used, the height in its relation to other buildings, the visual impact it will have on the skyl;ine and the stylish design without overstating it.

Anyway, apart from all this kerfuffle, it may even be taller yet or shorter??? this is just a render as far as we know... so cheer up Martin, you are taking the shine off what is good news for Birmingham. and people say that Brummies are negative
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Old January 28th, 2007, 10:02 PM   #36
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Quote:
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They'd never been to Manchester, Leeds, London or Liverpool then?
not on a regular basis smart arse.
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Old January 28th, 2007, 10:02 PM   #37
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Martin G

Look on the bright side, it would appear that FLD has done a runner!

Do you think so?

Besides, one of you can hunt him down on some of our behalfs.

This really is akin to being kicked in the stomach and spat in the eye. It hurts.

I will never live this one down. In fact I might not even bother visiting Brum to see any future tower schemes / attend any forum meets if this is the way the city is going. Much as it pains me to say this, there's enough excitement happening up here in Liverpool, Leeds and Manchester in that department, but given the choice I would have always stuck up for the former second city rather than these three.

Now Brum can enjoy TWO huge anti-climaxes - New Street Gateway and Arena "Square" tower. Fanbloodytastic.
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Old January 28th, 2007, 10:06 PM   #38
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Sorry Lizzie - I accept your post above - this is still "knee jerk reaction" time from me we're talking about - 48 hours from the first bombshell - so given time (and initial furores usually always die down don't they?) I might....just might... reconsider and start looking at it more realistically.....but in the meantime I do feel somewhat cheated with some justification and I will make no apologies for coming across like I'm over-Meldrewing again.
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Old January 28th, 2007, 10:06 PM   #39
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If this pleases us then

Woody, you've just said it. This is one of the best outside London. We want to become a world class city. This is'nt world class. Its UK Class.

UK class is ok, but not great. Birmingham needs to become great. Adequate wont do.

Im with Martin.
 
Old January 28th, 2007, 10:06 PM   #40
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I think I know where FLD has ended up:

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