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Old January 29th, 2007, 02:24 PM   #121
gothicform
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whats happened is i think that pipers probably put up the models without having proper clearance. someone on the project will likely have seen the images on online today and had them go into damage limitation mode and remove them from the pipers site. it happens all the time.

last week i had a pr on the phone about another project elsewhere and only removed the images when he briefed me on the project so far off the record, promised me the story a day before it would be given to everyone else plus an interview with the architects.

its a fact of life that with projects involving hundreds of people in dozens of different companies sometimes a company accidentally puts up the material they dont yet have clearance for. unfortunately in the world of the internet this means the whole planet can see it before you notice, or at least 1520 people from skyscrapercity alone.
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Old January 29th, 2007, 02:25 PM   #122
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Enough of all this - I've just waded through another THREE pages of b/s and STILL the most important point in my view has been constantly glossed over and ignored.

I will spell it out once again in large letters:

Arena Square Tower had full planning permission and even full CAA approval to be built to its maximum height of 175 metres. So why hasn't the architect made full use of this extremely hard fought for privilege and designed the tower to this height, instead of "somewhere between 150 and 160 metres"? CAN SOMEONE GIVE ME A REASON FOR THIS? Because there hasn't been one all this time in every single post I have been reading since the new design was unveiled.

I NEED to know this, because I consider this an extremely CRUCIAL factor, FFS!!!
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Old January 29th, 2007, 02:28 PM   #123
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If the square area on the side of the tower is a restaurant, it looks to be about 120 metres high, easily higher up than the restaurant in Beetham Manchester, & almost to the top of Beetham Birmingham.
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Old January 29th, 2007, 02:31 PM   #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin G View Post
Enough of all this - I've just waded through another THREE pages of b/s and STILL the most important point in my view has been constantly glossed over and ignored.

I will spell it out once again in large letters:

Arena Square Tower had full planning permission and even full CAA approval to be built to its maximum height of 175 metres. So why hasn't the architect made full use of this extremely hard fought for privilege and designed the tower to this height, instead of "somewhere between 150 and 160 metres"? CAN SOMEONE GIVE ME A REASON FOR THIS? Because there hasn't been one all this time in every single post I have been reading since the new design was unveiled.

I NEED to know this, because I consider this an extremely CRUCIAL factor, FFS!!!
Martin, it may well be close to 175 metres when all the details come out. The 150 - 160 metre figure may be the top (habitable) floor height. With the crown effect & other equipment like a spire (possibly) on the top, it could easily be at the magical height of 175 metres!
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Old January 29th, 2007, 02:38 PM   #125
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Martin, it may well be close to 175 metres when all the details come out. The 150 - 160 metre figure may be the top (habitable) floor height. With the crown effect & other equipment like a spire (possibly) on the top, it could easily be at the magical height of 175 metres!
I'm sorry but that just isn't good enough. You seem to excel at this sort of thing. We want solid facts now - this late in the day - and mere speculative pronouncements [all that "may well be", "could be", "possibly" business] simply will not do. Why not "will definitely be" for once?

At least with projects like Manchester Hilton and Leeds Lumiere / Criterion we could see exactly what the finished thing would look like long before construction commenced. Why on earth has AST become such a slippery eel of a scheme, in that even now, after almost TEN years of pissing about, so many layers have been kept carefully under wraps that we don't even get an idea into exactly what it looks like or how high it is... ? Surely you must know what I'm getting at!! This is just beyond frustrating I'm telling you!
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Old January 29th, 2007, 02:44 PM   #126
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I know the image is only that, a 'computer generated image', but to me it does look about 1.75 times taller than Alpha Tower. Martin, it will be very close to 175 metres overall, plus any antenna / communications beacons at the top.
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Old January 29th, 2007, 02:46 PM   #127
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You're doing it again - "will be very close to...", instead of "WILL BE...".

There is a fundamental difference between the two...!!

It's like banging my head against a brick wall sometimes.....


I almost feel like quoting that bit from Shakespeare's "The Merchant Of Venice" where they are weighing that pound of flesh.....
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Old January 29th, 2007, 02:54 PM   #128
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Martin, draw a line across the top of Alpha Tower towards AST (don't include that top 'box' on Alpha, that doesn't exist in reality). The top section of AST, as you can see, makes up about 75% of Alpha Tower, which would make AST about 175 metres.
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Old January 29th, 2007, 03:10 PM   #129
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Alpha Tower is just over 320 feet tall. From your instructions then AST is half as tall again...so... 160ft + 320ft = TA-DAHHHHH!! - you have a 480 feet tall tower. IT IS NOT EVEN 500 FEET HIGH!!!

That is total crap. Even you can see that Flid !
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Old January 29th, 2007, 03:15 PM   #130
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We'll have to wait for a firm release and not a sneaky peak Martin! We should be grateful (and sympathetic) to Pipers error!
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Old January 29th, 2007, 03:17 PM   #131
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I really hope that is a scenic lift I can see going up the southern side of the building...
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Old January 29th, 2007, 03:17 PM   #132
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Alpha Tower is 99 metres tall, which is 323.73 feet tall. AST tower, in those computerised images is 1.73 times taller than Alpha, which is :

1.73 x 323.73 feet = 560.05 feet tall

or

1.73 x 99 metres = 171.27 metres tall

Which incidentally is about the same height as Beetham Manchester to the very top of it's chicken wire fence!!

I didn't say "half as tall again" - you mis read my post .... again!
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Old January 29th, 2007, 03:20 PM   #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Biosonic View Post
Counting the double-height lower floors as 2 floors each, and also counting the facade continuation, I make 51 floors above ground

The spire (which is all important as our great rivals and friends Manchester stick plant rooms and wind blades on theirs) adds another couple of floors maybe.

53 floors @ 3.3m = 174.9m

Sim - I think the original tower was office and the rest of the scheme was resi, but I could be mistaken.
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Old January 29th, 2007, 03:22 PM   #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin G View Post
Enough of all this - I've just waded through another THREE pages of b/s and STILL the most important point in my view has been constantly glossed over and ignored.

I will spell it out once again in large letters:

Arena Square Tower had full planning permission and even full CAA approval to be built to its maximum height of 175 metres. So why hasn't the architect made full use of this extremely hard fought for privilege and designed the tower to this height, instead of "somewhere between 150 and 160 metres"? CAN SOMEONE GIVE ME A REASON FOR THIS? Because there hasn't been one all this time in every single post I have been reading since the new design was unveiled.

I NEED to know this, because I consider this an extremely CRUCIAL factor, FFS!!!
Because they've spent all their money on redesigns?
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Old January 29th, 2007, 03:27 PM   #135
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Good thought, but as this is a new developer and they have only commissioned 1 architect, unlikely
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Old January 29th, 2007, 03:28 PM   #136
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Quote:
...... & erase a 175 metre tower from your minds, add another 15 metres!
FLD, I think that is what hurt the most. About 10 days before we saw the first images, because what you said, a lot of us who had kept our faith in you were optimistic about us getting a tower of 190m. Presumably, these models we saw had already been on that site for a considerable time before that Manchester forumer stumbled across them. So I'd like to know why in God's name did you tell us it would be 190m? Where did you get that number from and how do you feel about being completely incorrect?
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Old January 29th, 2007, 03:29 PM   #137
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well there was always going to be dissapointment regarding this tower after the wait was so long

i dont think its too bad just unimagnative, i mean even a kid could design a glass box,
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Old January 29th, 2007, 03:38 PM   #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by van heckler View Post
FLD, I think that is what hurt the most. About 10 days before we saw the first images, because what you said, a lot of us who had kept our faith in you were optimistic about us getting a tower of 190m. Presumably, these models we saw had already been on that site for a considerable time before that Manchester forumer stumbled across them. So I'd like to know why in God's name did you tell us it would be 190m? Where did you get that number from and how do you feel about being completely incorrect?
This is further proof if any were needed that Flid is just an evil manipulator. He might well have put "add" in that quote where he should correctly have said "subtract".

Now that would be more like it. Either way, to say something like that and be secretly aware that the reality ain't anything of the sort smacks of pure deceit of the worst kind.

Why can't people stop wriggling out of telling the truth and give us solid facts for bloody once, for crying out loud!
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Old January 29th, 2007, 03:41 PM   #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin G View Post
This is further proof if any were needed that Flid is just an evil manipulator. He might well have put "add" in that quote where he should correctly have said "subtract".

Now that would be more like it. Either way, to say something like that and be secretly aware that the reality ain't anything of the sort smacks of pure deceit of the worst kind.

Why can't people stop wriggling out of telling the truth and give us solid facts for bloody once, for crying out loud!
......... breath in ...... breath out .......... and relax.
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Old January 29th, 2007, 03:42 PM   #140
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Quote:
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Why can't people stop wriggling out of telling the truth and give us solid facts for bloody once, for crying out loud!
i'd tell you some solid facts but i don't know any...
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