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Old February 21st, 2007, 11:45 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobDaBuilder View Post
What are the average attendances for this season?

It might be the fourth time that Torino has posted larger attendances over a season.
According to http://www.european-football-statist...ent/aveita.htm:

Torino: 20,574
Juventus: 17,576
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Old February 22nd, 2007, 08:44 AM   #102
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Quote:
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Being a massive club is no excuse if there's no fanbase. Most of the stadium will just be empty and it'll look and sound like crap.
i repeat: the fanbase is the largest in Europe (24M fans, more than Real Madrid and Manchester United).

Juve is in disgrace right now.. ok... but:

- the largest fanbase in Europe and among the best in the world, is a key point for the sponsors (also in Serie B Juventus did lot lose a lot of money compeaing to the previuos year)

- Juventus is part of the IFIL holding, which represesnts FIAT who will always be a financial support / guarantee for the team (the stadium investment is the biggest example)

- ok, Turin is maybe a "cold" city. But it's also true that an olympic stadium like old Delle Alpi was not the best attraction for a football show.
Anyway, only in 1998 Juventus had 45.000 subscribers and an attendance average over 50.000. Bad politics with supporters by CEO Giraudo and moreover television moved away supporters by the stadium. This was true not only for Turin but also in bigger cities like Rome or Milan.
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Old February 22nd, 2007, 08:59 AM   #103
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Quote:
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Being a massive club is no excuse if there's no fanbase. Most of the stadium will just be empty and it'll look and sound like crap.
Juve has a big fanbase.
The only reason why the stadium is so empty is because its crap.
Inter and Milan also manage to fill the San Siro oftentimes.
Would Inter get the same attendancies if it would play in the Delle alpi?
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Old February 22nd, 2007, 10:59 AM   #104
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Juve has a "passive" following. People who do not really attend matches, but just say I follow a club just to be fashionable.

When you get less than 30,000 to home games I think it is laughable to suggest you could be considered to be one of Europe's biggest clubs.

It is proven in court just how Juve has achieved their "success". They should have been banished to the bottom of 4th division and their owners ordered to sell the club to more honest interests.
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Old February 22nd, 2007, 01:22 PM   #105
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What's all this talk about a huge "fanbase"? Yeah, they probably have one, too bad though that most of that fanbase is located hundreds of KMs south of Turin. Juve's never been a big draw in Turin, so a 35,000-40,000 venue is sufficient for that club.
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Old February 22nd, 2007, 07:53 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobDaBuilder View Post
Juve has a "passive" following. People who do not really attend matches, but just say I follow a club just to be fashionable.

When you get less than 30,000 to home games I think it is laughable to suggest you could be considered to be one of Europe's biggest clubs.

It is proven in court just how Juve has achieved their "success". They should have been banished to the bottom of 4th division and their owners ordered to sell the club to more honest interests.
yes....

u just forgot that Juve is Italy and Europe history, anh half of the players of world cup final were from Juventus.

bah... u seems so "anti-juve" on principle.
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Old February 22nd, 2007, 07:56 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kampflamm View Post
What's all this talk about a huge "fanbase"? Yeah, they probably have one, too bad though that most of that fanbase is located hundreds of KMs south of Turin. Juve's never been a big draw in Turin, so a 35,000-40,000 venue is sufficient for that club.
it's not only South Italy.

it's also half Turin, and probably 1/3 of Milan. in Emilia-Romagna region (Bologna, Reggio Emilia, Parma among its cities), Juve fans represents a big percentage.

and it's incredible that also in cities where biggest rivals plays... i.e Florence, Rome) there's a huge Juve fanbase.

don't forget also 11M fans out of Italy.
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Old February 23rd, 2007, 12:15 AM   #108
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But are they true fans? I mean big clubs like Bayern, Real, ManU etc. will always have sh*tloads of "fans" because they're successful clubs. These fans don't attend games though.
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Old February 23rd, 2007, 12:57 AM   #109
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I think everybody should support their local teams
I respect,but don't understand people from Rome,Milan,Florence,etc supporting Juve or people from Torino that supports other teams outside.
it's just my poor way of thinking
I support my local team,last years we were in 3rd division,then the managers increased the debt and we now began restarting from the last division(7th division),but I continue to support my team everywhere and ever
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Old February 23rd, 2007, 07:59 AM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fanatic74 View Post
I think everybody should support their local teams
I respect,but don't understand people from Rome,Milan,Florence,etc supporting Juve or people from Torino that supports other teams outside.
it's just my poor way of thinking
I support my local team,last years we were in 3rd division,then the managers increased the debt and we now began restarting from the last division(7th division),but I continue to support my team everywhere and ever
me too I'm from Turin

what i wanted to tell is that Juve is not only a local reality, but an italian and an european one

and to everyone who tells that Juventus has nothin to to with Turin, i reply that he probably doesn't know anythin bout the last century city's history.
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Old February 23rd, 2007, 09:46 AM   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kampflamm View Post
But are they true fans? I mean big clubs like Bayern, Real, ManU etc. will always have sh*tloads of "fans" because they're successful clubs. These fans don't attend games though.
I don't think the clubs really mind as long as they buy a new kit every season.
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Old February 23rd, 2007, 01:03 PM   #112
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Look, long term, taking a purely rationally business point of view to building Juventus as a seriously big football club, Milano is where they should be playing out of.

Sure it won't happen, but how is playing in front of 60 to 70k a home match bad compared to 20 to 30 you only get down the road in Turin?

Forget about history for a moment, in business which professional football actually is, why is it so difficult for people in Turin to just go to Milan to watch their team play and where the majority of their loyal fanbase(people who would actually go to matches) is actually located.

You get the better stadium, bigger corporations and larger supporter group. It is madness not to consider it if you are to stay competitive in the future.
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Old February 23rd, 2007, 04:31 PM   #113
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The Italian league is dying on its arse. It's probably now even behind the German league (which has always been generally quite poor) in terms of quality, and far, far behind England and Spain.

I think a 40,000 stadium is more than adequate for a club like Juve. You only have to look at its attendance history to see that. Build it at 40,000 with the possibility of expansion. Simple.
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Old February 23rd, 2007, 09:16 PM   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobDaBuilder View Post
Look, long term, taking a purely rationally business point of view to building Juventus as a seriously big football club, Milano is where they should be playing out of.

Sure it won't happen, but how is playing in front of 60 to 70k a home match bad compared to 20 to 30 you only get down the road in Turin?

Forget about history for a moment, in business which professional football actually is, why is it so difficult for people in Turin to just go to Milan to watch their team play and where the majority of their loyal fanbase(people who would actually go to matches) is actually located.

You get the better stadium, bigger corporations and larger supporter group. It is madness not to consider it if you are to stay competitive in the future.
bah....

there's two reasons for whichu are sayn' that... u'r for Torino FC or u represent 100% american culture... juve out of Turin: NEVER.
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Old February 23rd, 2007, 11:27 PM   #115
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Quote:
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The Italian league is dying on its arse. It's probably now even behind the German league (which has always been generally quite poor) in terms of quality, and far, far behind England and Spain.
I think world football is dead..not only italian one,cause of fifa and uefa masters.
european football is boring,I enjoy Argentina's league
England,Spain??German??
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Old April 30th, 2007, 11:42 AM   #116
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no Euro 2012... juventus is now waiting for Italian Federation to decide if finance the rebuilding of the stadium with a new loan with a new, low interest rate.

Deadline.... December 2007....

in the meantime, Turin's Delle Alpi rest unused. Juventus let host some music concerts (Vasco Rossi in July, The Police in October.... )
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Old May 1st, 2007, 04:31 AM   #117
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I won't comment on the level of Serie A play because that's in the eye of the beholder. However, I will say that, at some point, all these scandals have got to be tiring for us all. If there's one area that doesn't need all that drama (at least off the pitch) that would be football. But maybe that's the problem. So much is invested in the sport, in terms of emotion, controversy, etc., that it will always be vulnerable to irregularities. At least in Italy.

I would like to think there's a way to keep politics completely away from the sport. I have no ideas of how to do that.

Now, Delle Alpi...quite a waste of good building materials. And now Juve want to rectify what the city had done. What is their liquidity? What other assets do they have?
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Old May 1st, 2007, 12:14 PM   #118
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u mean liquidity of Juventus?

mmm… there’s a “before scandal” and an “after scandal”.

I won’t say a word about the ”before”. The only thing that matters it’s that the old management left a good heritage: in the season 2005-06 was the third club in Europe by revenues, after Real Madrid and Barcelona (source Deloitte rich list).

Anyway, scandal brought:
- Second division;
- No champions’ league.

This will certainly decrease revenues in 2006-07, mainly because renegotiations of commercial contracts and less international TV rights (national TV rights are stable because of the contracts already signed with local broadcasters).

Implications on the revenues are very big, also because Juventus, as all Italian football clubs, depends mainly from sponsors and TV rights, and less (or nothing) by “matchday” revenues (real estate revenues… including match tickets, stadium commercial areas revenues, merchandising… etc.)

That’s why stadium project was absolutely important, and it rests actually very important. And that’s why Euro 2012 lost bid implies the design of a brand new strategy.

As you all know, old strategy was to rebuild “Delle Alpi” with a zero-interest rate loan by an Italian public institution called “Credito Sportivo”, which finances the building of sport infrastructures in Italy. The zero-interest rate loan was agreed in order to prepare Turin hosting Euro 2012 matches.

Actually Juventus will negotiate with Credito Sportivo to obtain at least an interest rate lower than the average market interests. Consequently, there’s a chance to build the stadium anyway, but with higher costs. If not, the only alternative is to restructure “Delle Alpi” to fit new Italian and international standards of safety (this will entail also a reduction of the number of seats of about 20.000 units).

In the meantime, the property of Juventus, mainly of Fiat Group, after a decade of indifference, is coming back to sustain the club. This implied the reorganization of the management after the scandal and mainly will imply an injection of fresh money to rebuild the team for the “Serie A” and probably to finance the stadium project.

We’ll see….

Last edited by ravanellidiciamo; May 1st, 2007 at 02:17 PM.
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Old May 5th, 2007, 11:50 AM   #119
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just a break to show how Delle Alpi represents a magnificent arena for music events....

(next events, Vasco Rossi in July and The Police in October)

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Old May 7th, 2007, 01:44 PM   #120
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so yeah, nice stadium we've got here
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