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Old June 25th, 2011, 05:37 PM   #41
Nathan Dawz
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Quote:
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Nobody in Greater Manchester consiously thinks or says that they are from Greater Manchester.
Rubbish, Kurt! In fact it's exactly the opposite - few people in Manchester think of themselves as belonging to Lancashire or Cheshire anymore. Maybe some on the fringes do, but not in the core.

Greater Manchester's used in everyday language now - try thinking about Greater Manchester Police, Transport for Greater Manchester, Greater Manchester Combined Authority, Greater Manchester Chamber of Commerce...

I think you're getting mixed up with the fact that Greater Manchester was never a postal county (although no such things actually exist anymore).
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Old June 25th, 2011, 09:44 PM   #42
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No, I think people know the names GMP, GM Fire Service etc but no one thinks themselves as living in GM.

Many many think they are Mancs.

Some think themselves as from Wigan, Bolton, Rochdale, Salford, Lancs, Cheshire, Ashton, Stockport, Bury, Sale..... but no one ever uses the term Greater Manchester to describe anything other than the transport service, police service and the fire service.
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Old June 25th, 2011, 10:40 PM   #43
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I agree, I know lots of people from the surrounding towns of Manchester saying they are 'from Manchester' because the Greater banner.

Obviously they like to associate themselves with the dominant city because it's far cooler to be from Manchester than some little town in Lancashire.

When the reputation of Birmingham improves, it should see a similar phenomenon (hopefully).
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Old June 26th, 2011, 12:31 AM   #44
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In Ireland the cities are called, for example, Cork City, and the county is called County Cork. Whereas in USA it's New York City and New York County. Birmingham County or County Birmingham, I think I prefer Birmingham County.
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Old June 26th, 2011, 02:59 AM   #45
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No, I think people know the names GMP, GM Fire Service etc but no one thinks themselves as living in GM.

Many many think they are Mancs.

Some think themselves as from Wigan, Bolton, Rochdale, Salford, Lancs, Cheshire, Ashton, Stockport, Bury, Sale..... but no one ever uses the term Greater Manchester to describe anything other than the transport service, police service and the fire service.
Same thing though. 'Mancunian' doesn't just refer to the City anymore, people from across GM use that term - from Sale to Bury. Just like people call themselves 'Londoners' from across Greater London.

And there are multiple identities at play too. A Salfordian these days is likely to think of himself as Mancunian too. That's a world of difference compared to the relationships between say Leeds/Bradford or Birmingham/Coventry.
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Old June 26th, 2011, 10:10 AM   #46
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I agree, I know lots of people from the surrounding towns of Manchester saying they are 'from Manchester' because the Greater banner.

Obviously they like to associate themselves with the dominant city because it's far cooler to be from Manchester than some little town in Lancashire.

When the reputation of Birmingham improves, it should see a similar phenomenon (hopefully).
But I don't think the fact that some people in Sale, Ashton, Bury, Stockport.... consider themselves to be from Manchester is anything to do with what the met county is called. I really don't.

The reason for the difference in Manchester and Birmingham is much more to do with the differing geography, history and politics.

I honestly think the assumption that having the name Greater Manchester makes any difference to anyone is simplistic in the extreme. The relationship between the different parts of the area are far more complex than that.
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Old June 26th, 2011, 10:12 AM   #47
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Same thing though. 'Mancunian' doesn't just refer to the City anymore, people from across GM use that term - from Sale to Bury. Just like people call themselves 'Londoners' from across Greater London.

And there are multiple identities at play too. A Salfordian these days is likely to think of himself as Mancunian too. That's a world of difference compared to the relationships between say Leeds/Bradford or Birmingham/Coventry.
Indeed. Some people from Bury to Alty, from Stalybridge to Worsley consider themselves to be Mancs.

They do not consider themselves to be Greater Mancs though.
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Old June 26th, 2011, 12:03 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan Dawz View Post
Same thing though. 'Mancunian' doesn't just refer to the City anymore, people from across GM use that term - from Sale to Bury. Just like people call themselves 'Londoners' from across Greater London.

And there are multiple identities at play too. A Salfordian these days is likely to think of himself as Mancunian too. That's a world of difference compared to the relationships between say Leeds/Bradford or Birmingham/Coventry.


You cant really say that Manchester/Salford and Birmingham/Coventry is in the same context, more like Birmingham/Solihull and even though the more posher parts of Solihull refer to being from Solihull, you will hear people from North Solihull refer to being Brummies so its a little bit similar. Even parts of North Solihull (ie Castle Bromwich) have Birmingham on there address.
Birmingham and Coventry are totally seperate and have miles of countryside in between them both. All there is to seperate Manchester and Salford is a river.
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Old June 26th, 2011, 12:05 PM   #49
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You will also sometimes hear some dim wit of a reporter, normally from the BBC refer to places like West Bromwich being in Birmingham which is also not correct, its in Sandwell MBC
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Old June 26th, 2011, 07:01 PM   #50
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Indeed. Some people from Bury to Alty, from Stalybridge to Worsley consider themselves to be Mancs.

They do not consider themselves to be Greater Mancs though.
Well obviously. I think we're both talking about the same thing here.

I was making the point that most people across Greater Manchester identify themselves as Mancunian and recognise that they are part of Greater Manchester as opposed to identifying themselves as Cheshire/Lancashire like they used to.

Nobody calls themselves 'Greater Mancunian' because it's a bit of a mouthful and it sounds bureaucratic. 'Mancunian' is simply more convenient.
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Old June 26th, 2011, 07:05 PM   #51
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You cant really say that Manchester/Salford and Birmingham/Coventry is in the same context, more like Birmingham/Solihull
But Manchester and Salford are technically separate cities. The point that I'm making is that there isn't the sense of bitter rivalry between them in the same way that there is between Birmingham and Coventry or Leeds and Bradford.

That's why Greater Manchester works - because there is universal acceptance that Manchester is the dominant centre and people in both Manchester and Salford are happy to think of themselves as 'Mancunian'.

West Yorkshire and the West Midlands can never have the kind of cooperation and closeness seen in Greater Manchester because there is too much rivalry between competing areas within them. People in Bradford will never accept being part of 'Greater Leeds' and people in Coventry will never accept being part of 'Greater Birmingham'.
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Old June 26th, 2011, 08:03 PM   #52
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There must have been a logic behind it but I think the county area as was shouldn't have included coventry. The gap makes a natural break from the rest of the conurbation. I guess manufacturing wise as people referred to the different socio/political/cultural reasons for conurbations existing it's the manufacturing connection which saw Coventry included.
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Old June 27th, 2011, 05:02 AM   #53
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It was simple, it was a bigger city to pair with Birmingham, rather than giving us Bromsgrove etc! Joke really.
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Old June 27th, 2011, 08:40 AM   #54
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It's worth pointing out the obvious big difference is all 10 boroughs in GM are very similar in size.

The same cannot be said in the WM.
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Old June 27th, 2011, 10:26 AM   #55
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Do you reckon if Salford City FC were a dominant force in English football, things might be different?!

Look at football rivalry for example, West Brom, Wolverhampton, BCFC, AVFC, clubs which do (reasonably) well, but local identity runs through their veins!

MCFC staunchly rib MUFC for not being in 'The City Of' Manchester, but MUFC carries the Manchester name and is located in Greater Manchester and anyone outside of GM, see them both as 'Manchester' clubs anyway.
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Old June 27th, 2011, 10:59 AM   #56
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Dunno.

But GM is different to other Met counties.

There are signs around Sale pointing to Heywood Rd (where Sale Rugby club used to play) saying 'Manchester Sale rugby club'.

Manchester Phoenix play in Altrincham.

Manchester United play in Old Trafford.

FC United play in Bury.

There is far far more acceptance across GM from the local population that local authorities mean very little, much more acceptance than in the other met counties I would suggest.
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Old June 27th, 2011, 11:18 AM   #57
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As I've said before, Brum is without doubt the largest most important city in the region due to economy, sport and culture.

I wouldn't want the Black Country or Coventry to be closely associated with Birmingham as I'm not too bothered on the places and I believe that a lot of Birmingham's bad rep comes from people from outside thinking a yam yam accent is Brummie (we all know it's far stronger), just my personal view. I've even heard Londoners call people from Coventry 'Brummie'.

It would make sense to have something like 'Birmingham and Central England' or 'Birmingham Region', 'Birmingham Metro Area' nothing greater, or lesser just an easy reference for people to quickly associate where on the map, failing that... the region will just stay as the West Midlands, but in reality this is a term not very often used now a days, well I don't hear it, even West Midlands travel changed to Centro. So any ref to Central England would be good. I think Birmingham Metro Area sounds good as it doesn't make Brum out to be bigger, greater, etc just central to the region and I'd like to see Cov join something like that, afterall, they're lucky we didn't remain part of Warwickshire.
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Old June 27th, 2011, 07:58 PM   #58
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As I've said before, Brum is without doubt the largest most important city in the region due to economy, sport and culture.

I wouldn't want the Black Country or Coventry to be closely associated with Birmingham as I'm not too bothered on the places and I believe that a lot of Birmingham's bad rep comes from people from outside thinking a yam yam accent is Brummie (we all know it's far stronger), just my personal view. I've even heard Londoners call people from Coventry 'Brummie'.

It would make sense to have something like 'Birmingham and Central England' or 'Birmingham Region', 'Birmingham Metro Area' nothing greater, or lesser just an easy reference for people to quickly associate where on the map, failing that... the region will just stay as the West Midlands, but in reality this is a term not very often used now a days, well I don't hear it, even West Midlands travel changed to Centro. So any ref to Central England would be good. I think Birmingham Metro Area sounds good as it doesn't make Brum out to be bigger, greater, etc just central to the region and I'd like to see Cov join something like that, afterall, they're lucky we didn't remain part of Warwickshire.
Coventry will not agree to join any region that has Birmingham as part of the name. That is what happened in 1974 when Birmingham wanted Greater Birmingham, not the West Midlands. Coventry wanted the West Midlands because it was a city in its own right and felt that it had a more impressive history than Birmingham, being at one time, briefly, one of the most important cities in England.
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Old June 27th, 2011, 09:41 PM   #59
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Sandwell is a created entity, it is basically Birmingham. everything is Birmingham west upto the m5, then its black country.

All these silly metropolitan counties are absurd, apart from perhaps wolverhampton and dudley, they are distinct places in their own right.

But walsall, sandwell, solihull and birmingham city council, is all Birmingham, these 4 boroughs should all merge into Birmingham City.
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Old June 27th, 2011, 09:51 PM   #60
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i think walsall is a little distinct from Birmingham but there are areas of walsall which i think should be Birmingham like streetly. I agree with sandwell, others on here have a different view though but i thnk most of sandwell is effectively Birmingham
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