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Old April 16th, 2012, 09:11 PM   #81
Brum X
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Does anybody have the official population figures for West Midlands (Including Coventry and without Coventry) ????
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Old April 17th, 2012, 12:19 AM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brum X
Does anybody have the official population figures for West Midlands (Including Coventry and without Coventry) ????
Not until the census is out. When's that due?
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Old April 17th, 2012, 02:21 AM   #83
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Not until the census is out. When's that due?
I thought it was earlier this year. Must be end of this year then.
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Old April 17th, 2012, 03:21 AM   #84
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Such immature remarks from the leader of Coventry City council who states "Coventry was a city before Birmingham" blah blah blah blah


If Coventry does not want to be associated with Brum, then go alone, lets see what the city of coventry can achieve then, i personally would like Cov to be an important neighbour, however the sooner there is a "Greater Birmingham" conurbation then the better as far as i am concerned, with or without Coventry.
Your 'conurbation masturbation' is equally immature.
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Old April 17th, 2012, 07:27 PM   #85
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Your 'conurbation masturbation' is equally immature.


For this area to move forward, it needs to change and move with the times and get rid of all this petty grumblings, whats immature about that ?????
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Old April 17th, 2012, 09:57 PM   #86
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Such immature remarks from the leader of Coventry City council who states "Coventry was a city before Birmingham" blah blah blah blah


If Coventry does not want to be associated with Brum, then go alone, lets see what the city of coventry can achieve then, i personally would like Cov to be an important neighbour, however the sooner there is a "Greater Birmingham" conurbation then the better as far as i am concerned, with or without Coventry.
I think Greater Birmingham would be better than the West Midlands. Midlands is a horrible name for a county, it has no association, no aspiration - anything would be an improvement. The problem is, I've always seen Wolverhampton and Coventry as cities in their own right. Is the unity there to make such a change happen?

Many like to compare a Greater Birmingham with Greater London or Greater Manchester, which I think is a little misguided. Greater Manchester and Greater London are unified. One city in Greater London, two cities in Greater Manchester - but three cities in a prospective Greater Birmingham? The only borough with city status in GM is Salford, and if you look on a map, Salford (like Trafford) is essentially a suburb of Manchester. Salford and areas of Trafford are actually closer to Mcr city centre than many south and east areas of Manchester. All the other boroughs are towns such as Bury, Bolton etc. which are quite happy to tag along with the idea of being linked to their closest city. Likewise, the 33 boroughs of GL are simply suburbs. All 33, be it towns or small cities, I associate strongly with London.

A Greater Birmingham with Dudley, Sandwell, Solihull and Walsall yes. A Greater Birmingham with Wolverhampton and Coventry? I'm really not sure.
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Old April 17th, 2012, 10:06 PM   #87
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I think Greater Birmingham would be better than the West Midlands. Midlands is a horrible name for a county, it has no association, no aspiration - anything would be an improvement. The problem is, I've always seen Wolverhampton and Coventry as cities in their own right. Is the unity there to make such a change happen?

Many like to compare a Greater Birmingham with Greater London or Greater Manchester, which I think is a little misguided. Greater Manchester and Greater London are unified. One city in Greater London, two cities in Greater Manchester - but three cities in a prospective Greater Birmingham? The only borough with city status in GM is Salford, and if you look on a map, Salford (like Trafford) is essentially a suburb of Manchester. Salford and areas of Trafford are actually closer to Mcr city centre than many south and east areas of Manchester. All the other boroughs are towns such as Bury, Bolton etc. which are quite happy to tag along with the idea of being linked to their closest city. Likewise, the 33 boroughs of GL are simply suburbs. All 33, be it towns or small cities, I associate strongly with London.

A Greater Birmingham with Dudley, Sandwell, Solihull and Walsall yes. A Greater Birmingham with Wolverhampton and Coventry? I'm really not sure.

It still doesnt change the fact though that when some chinese dude visits a town like Dudley and has travelled all the way from China, he would not associate it with The Black Country but being in the Birmingham area and that whats these narrow minded council leaders need to realsie, especially that prat from Walsall MBC, he is the most outspoken anti Brum councillor there is, refuses point blank to associate being part of a greater brummy area.
tut tut
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Old April 17th, 2012, 10:15 PM   #88
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Wolverhampton has a very strong sense of "it", and is definately very different from the places that closely border it (perhaps not Willenhall so much). Much less so than say, West Bromwich, or Smethwick. It also has one of the best defined CBDs of the conurbation.

But even so, for logistical, investment, and infrastructure reasons it definately fits into "Greater Birmingham". Coventry not so much.

But Birmingham is only 900,000 of the 2.2m strong conurbation, not even that if you count Sutton Coldfield as a seperate locality - I don't think Greater Birmingham is a good name for it. That's why we have the West Midlands name.

I always think of Greater Birmingham as being the area inside the orbital. (That is, the M6 Toll, M42, M40, Western Orbital, M54 ring).
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Old April 17th, 2012, 10:59 PM   #89
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Wolverhampton has a very strong sense of "it", and is definately very different from the places that closely border it (perhaps not Willenhall so much). Much less so than say, West Bromwich, or Smethwick. It also has one of the best defined CBDs of the conurbation.

But even so, for logistical, investment, and infrastructure reasons it definately fits into "Greater Birmingham". Coventry not so much.

But Birmingham is only 900,000 of the 2.2m strong conurbation, not even that if you count Sutton Coldfield as a seperate locality - I don't think Greater Birmingham is a good name for it. That's why we have the West Midlands name.

I always think of Greater Birmingham as being the area inside the orbital. (That is, the M6 Toll, M42, M40, Western Orbital, M54 ring).

Manchester is 450, 000 ish of a 2.1m strong conurbation ????

And btw Birmingham is 1,000,000 and not 900,000
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Old April 17th, 2012, 11:07 PM   #90
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It still doesnt change the fact though that when some chinese dude visits a town like Dudley and has travelled all the way from China, he would not associate it with The Black Country but being in the Birmingham area and that whats these narrow minded council leaders need to realsie, especially that prat from Walsall MBC, he is the most outspoken anti Brum councillor there is, refuses point blank to associate being part of a greater brummy area.
tut tut
I've met people from Walsall and Dudley who prefer not to say they are from Birmingham. I'm sure Greater Birmingham would soon rub off on them though. I just feel if Greater Birmingham was formed, it is vitally important all boroughs are drivers, not passengers who are unsure of where to go. Forming Greater Birmingham without Coventry and Wolverhampton would be a wise move. Both cities might eventually mellow to joining GB if they see greater and more effective investment in infrastructure in the coming years.
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Old April 17th, 2012, 11:16 PM   #91
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I've met people from Walsall and Dudley who prefer not to say they are from Birmingham. I'm sure Greater Birmingham would soon rub off on them though. I just feel if Greater Birmingham was formed, it is vitally important all boroughs are drivers, not passengers who are unsure of where to go. Forming Greater Birmingham without Coventry and Wolverhampton would be a wise move. Both cities might eventually mellow to joining GB if they see greater and more effective investment in infrastructure in the coming years.
They would say "Im from Dudleeeeeeeeeeeey, near Birminghum" LOL
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Old April 17th, 2012, 11:48 PM   #92
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Manchester is 450, 000 ish of a 2.1m strong conurbation ????

And btw Birmingham is 1,000,000 and not 900,000
Population is a minor factor and I find they are often misleading when I research certain cities. The 500,000 population for Manchester is such an example. Factor in Salford and Trafford into Manchester which are closer to Manchester city centre than many areas of proper Manchester (particularly in the south and east), then the city would have a population in excess of 1,000,000. I envisage all three will be subsumed into one over the coming decades. I would hate to think any attempt to form Greater Birmingham is somehow an effort to say Greater Birmingham has a bigger population than Greater Manchester. I would like to think an attempt to form a Greater Birmingham will bring greater infrastructure for the region as has been achieved in GL and GM. Thus allowing it to move away from the "Midlands" tag to build its own destiny.
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Old April 18th, 2012, 01:17 AM   #93
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But why does it need to be greater Birmingham for that to happen? Is a name honestly the decisive factor in these things? Were already a unified conurbation as the West MIdlands. Things like centro can happen as it is, why do we need to suddenly call ourselves "Birmingham" to be part of something big?

I mean I'm not usually one to argue over wording but in this case west midlands seems perfectly fine; sure it's ambiguous but no less ambiguous than "greater Birmingham" would be.
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Old April 18th, 2012, 01:35 AM   #94
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Can't we just call it Greater Bridgnorth or something else attractive? The cliff railway could be our logo.
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Old April 18th, 2012, 01:54 AM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DBadger
But why does it need to be greater Birmingham for that to happen? Is a name honestly the decisive factor in these things? Were already a unified conurbation as the West MIdlands. Things like centro can happen as it is, why do we need to suddenly call ourselves "Birmingham" to be part of something big?

I mean I'm not usually one to argue over wording but in this case west midlands seems perfectly fine; sure it's ambiguous but no less ambiguous than "greater Birmingham" would be.
Because we are trying to sell `made in Birmingham`all over the world and people have heard of Birmingham but not West Midlands - we don't have a West Midlands branded airport for a reason.

For me we should leave out Coventry as it is not part of the, connurbation, and is a strong enough brand in its own right. Cov should stand on its own 2 feet and improve its local links with Warwick /Leamington / Nuneaton.

The remaining 6 authorities forming Greater Birmingham would then be consumed into a proper single super Metropolitan authority with only local powers kept the local level. This could be based upon the county and district model but with more power devolved from regional level & and central government.
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Old April 18th, 2012, 02:19 AM   #96
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You're going to say that if you're FROM Birmingham and love your city and want it to improve, but what about the rest of us in that conurbation who live miles away from Birmingham and rarely even go there? It's a bit arrogant to think everyone wants to automatically be a part of Birmingham and that things would suddenly get better.

I imagine it won't be too long until the debate becomes "do we call ourselves Greater London?" when it takes less than an hour to get there by train and is of course a much more famous and marketable name than Birmingham. But I imagine a few of you will be against that.
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Old April 18th, 2012, 02:52 AM   #97
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Who said anything about people outside of Brum wanting or not wanting it - I grew up in Solihull and my impression is attitudes are changing (to being more positive about the Birmingham brand). But I don't really care what people think I'm not suggesting a referendum I think our elected politicians in Westminster should stop fafing about with elected mayors and impose city regions as the defacto combined local and regional government while devolving massive powers down to them.

Its about 2 points mainly
1 Brand- that Birmingham is the Coca Cola company to the 7up of say Dudley (it is the parent brand, even though cola and lemonade are different)
2 The city region is the socio-economic reality requiring effective sub regional government - is an unelected Centro which has to go cup n hand to the DfT for funding for every 'major scheme' IE anything more than £5m really the best model?
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Last edited by Engels; April 18th, 2012 at 02:57 AM.
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Old April 18th, 2012, 03:08 AM   #98
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I always think of Greater Birmingham as being the area inside the orbital. (That is, the M6 Toll, M42, M40, Western Orbital, M54 ring).
Yes, so do I. Although me and my family are 60's overspill , leaving Great Barr when I was 5 to live near Worcester/Droitwich - I still don't feel like I've hit B'ham until I'm past the M42 junction going north on the M5.

Bromsgrove still seems like Worcestershire to me, whereas say Catshill, Halesowen, Rubery etc is Greater B'ham imo.
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Old April 18th, 2012, 09:46 AM   #99
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I think a Greater Birmingham is likely to gain ground when the Birmingham brand becomes attractive to people. The brand is steadily growing and I guess more will want to be part of an attractive brand than one that is protrayed negatively.

What if Greater London was called 'South East' instead? Or GM was called 'North West'? Means nothing to anyone IMO... Look around the world at large cities and their metropolitan regions are all named after the predominant city. How about naming them like the WM is:

Paris = North Middle East
Madrid = Midlands
Los Angeles = South California

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Old April 18th, 2012, 09:58 AM   #100
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South California don't sound to bad? But overall I see where your coming from, the next 20 years we will see some serious change in this city, with the Big City plan and all and hopefully it will really begin to attract more people to the city, especially to the City Center.
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