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Old April 18th, 2012, 11:53 AM   #101
DBadger
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I'll concede and admit that naming it after the direction it's in isn't great, and since I can't think of a better name for the conurbation (Dudley folk wouldn't be happy us calling the whole thing The Black Country eh? Wikipedia suggests "Birmingham, Coventry and the Black Country") -- sorry, digression -- I think Greater Birmingham will do.

Greater Birmingham will also likely stop Walsall or Dudley becoming cities in the future, something which I'd very like to see. As we've seen in Greater London, new cities aren't really something likely to happen. (I'd have added West Bromwich in there but I believe they want to join Birmingham as part of the city proper? "Since 2009, there has been a petition to merge Sandwell with Birmingham. If successful, Birmingham would substantially increase in size with a combined population of over 1,300,000.[1]")

I think that Centro is damaged by the borders of the county with regards to the conurbation. Codsall, and Bilbrook, railway stations are not part of the Network West Midlands area, despite being so close that their buses come from Wolverhampton.

Anyway, The Four Cities of Greater Brummagem.


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Old April 18th, 2012, 06:20 PM   #102
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Great image!

City of Meriden? is that what they're thinking about calling it? I was told they would just keep it under the name of Balsall Common.

Interesting still!
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Old April 18th, 2012, 07:16 PM   #103
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I just dubbed it that since it's in the "Meriden Gap".
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Old April 18th, 2012, 08:49 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DBadger View Post
But why does it need to be greater Birmingham for that to happen? Is a name honestly the decisive factor in these things? Were already a unified conurbation as the West MIdlands. Things like centro can happen as it is, why do we need to suddenly call ourselves "Birmingham" to be part of something big?

I mean I'm not usually one to argue over wording but in this case west midlands seems perfectly fine; sure it's ambiguous but no less ambiguous than "greater Birmingham" would be.


West Midlands is not fine though, you could call Worcester as being in the west midlands, also Telford and Tamworth.

These towns even though part of the midlands, are defo not part of a wider Birmingham (Tamworth maybe)
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Old April 19th, 2012, 06:33 AM   #105
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I think our "city region" should be bounded by the motorways to the north, east and south (I'd include Knowle and Dorridge in the city even though they're outside the M42) and by the edge of the conurbation in the west. It makes perfect sense for the local boroughs within this city region to work together, vote for a mayor for this bounded conurbation and then the silly arguments about Birmingham grabbing more than other councils can be disregarded. The elected mayor for our city region should be voted in by all of us in Wolverhampton, Dudley, Sandwell, Walsall, Brum and half of Solihull.
Notice also how the city centre is approximately centred within the city region (the accurate centre would be where the Hawthorns is I once worked out) therefore the doubters don't really have any argument against my case here. I want all 6 of us to share a mayor, just like 32 boroughs in Greater London at present do.

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Old April 19th, 2012, 03:44 PM   #106
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If people want Birmingham to have a bigger global name without that ambiguous West Midlands name, should it not revert back to being in the perhaps more famous historic county of Warwickshire? Then you can advertise the big, industrial but modern city name of Birmingham along with the more historic/attractive/globally famous touristy name of Warwickshire, which is of course forever associated with Shakespeare.
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Old April 19th, 2012, 03:49 PM   #107
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Half of what is currently the West Mids conurbation was actually in Staffordshire, so it wouldn't really work. Plus Warwick itself isn't in the conurbation.

I personally like "Birmingham and Black Country".

Or perhaps something like "Brum-Wolves" but that leaves a few out still.

It's a shame people are so patriotic about the Black Country name (some don't see Wolverhampton as even being part of it), or we could just call the whole thing the Black Country Conurbation, given Black Country does have a global brand.
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Old April 19th, 2012, 03:56 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DBadger View Post
Half of what is currently the West Mids conurbation was actually in Staffordshire
I know it was, as well as Worcestershire - where I live is not far from the old county boundry of Staffs/Worcs.


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so it wouldn't really work.
Well, it could work for Birmingham itself. What I'd also like is for the rest of us in the Black Country to go back to those traditional counties too.


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Plus Warwick itself isn't in the conurbation.
To some people that doesn't seem to matter when half of the population of Warwick already commutes to Birmingham every day. That makes Warwick a part of Birmingham apparently.


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It's a shame people are so patriotic about the Black Country name (some don't see Wolverhampton as even being part of it)
That's because it isn't officially.

Last edited by Butterfield; April 19th, 2012 at 04:04 PM.
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Old April 19th, 2012, 04:38 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DBadger View Post
I'll concede and admit that naming it after the direction it's in isn't great, and since I can't think of a better name for the conurbation (Dudley folk wouldn't be happy us calling the whole thing The Black Country eh? Wikipedia suggests "Birmingham, Coventry and the Black Country") -- sorry, digression -- I think Greater Birmingham will do.

Greater Birmingham will also likely stop Walsall or Dudley becoming cities in the future, something which I'd very like to see. As we've seen in Greater London, new cities aren't really something likely to happen. (I'd have added West Bromwich in there but I believe they want to join Birmingham as part of the city proper? "Since 2009, there has been a petition to merge Sandwell with Birmingham. If successful, Birmingham would substantially increase in size with a combined population of over 1,300,000.[1]")


I think that Centro is damaged by the borders of the county with regards to the conurbation. Codsall, and Bilbrook, railway stations are not part of the Network West Midlands area, despite being so close that their buses come from Wolverhampton.

Anyway, The Four Cities of Greater Brummagem.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:We...sUrbanArea.svg
I lived in Hagley for a long time (Am now in Wolverhampton), and as it is part of the West Midlands Conurbation, I think it's about time Dudley Council took it over, I've heard rumours Dudley is looking to take in Hagley, instead of Bromsgrove having it, but it would make more sense surely as Hagley is in the DY8/9 postcode area like Stourbridge, and includes Stourbridge, West Midlands in its addresses.
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Old April 19th, 2012, 05:21 PM   #110
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'Greater Birmingham & The Black Country'

Simple!
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Old April 19th, 2012, 06:34 PM   #111
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Would you black country diehards be willing to take the greater Birmingham name if Birmingham was split into three boroughs of around 350k population thereby giving each borough a more equal footing?

That way to name it something to do with wolverhampton is like naming Manchester "greater Wigan" or something. We all have to pull under the most famous name which is Birmingham. We grow together or waste away apart.

I'm sorry but if it can't be Birmingham it may as well stay as west mids. It doesn't work otherwise.

Last edited by Qoasis777; April 19th, 2012 at 06:42 PM.
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Old April 19th, 2012, 06:49 PM   #112
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I actually do think something like "Manchester & Salford" would be a better name (although don't quote me on that, I know nothing about Manchester and do not know the makeup of the conurbation).

It's less naming it after Wolverhampton, more just naming it something that takes into account more than one of the cities inside it. Think "Leeds-Bradford".

I personally like Birmingham & Black Country. Besides, there is already a Birmingham urban area which foreigners already get confused with (Alabama); naming it something that keeps it tied with Britain would diffuse the ambiguity perhaps?

I don't know, I know I'm coming across as a git but I just don't see Wolverhampton, Dudley, or Walsall as being a "part of Birmingham". I can see Birmingham being part of the same conurbation as Wolves, Dudley, Walsall, yes. But not a part of Birmingham itself, if that makes sense.

Although I get the feeling this is an argument of local diehards vs local diehards so isn't going to get anywhere. :p


I mean to put it into context, how would you feel about Greater West Bromwich or Greater Sandwell? Why wouldn't that work? That's the centre of the conurbation.
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Old April 19th, 2012, 07:01 PM   #113
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Quote:
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... given Black Country does have a global brand.
It doesn't, nor does 'West Midlands'. In Canada the average person has no idea where the Black Country is and I know of one instance where a questioner was told authoritatively that it was the area around Stoke on Trent! In any case, wasn't it originally coined as a derogative term? Despite the parochial pride, I'm afraid the only 'global brand' is Birmingham. I've met people who have been to Wolverhampton or Solihull on business and invariably they say they were in Birmingham.
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Old April 19th, 2012, 07:07 PM   #114
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If we're going by anecdotal evidence I based that on my American friends, who knew where the Black Country was (but thought Birmingham was in it). So I think an actual survey would be needed to find out for sure.

They mainly knew the Black Country from learning about Victorian britain in History and such, granted.
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Old April 19th, 2012, 08:02 PM   #115
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When I was in Florida two years ago and some American guy asked where in England we were from, I said "near Birming-um" and he said something like "Oh, that's near Coventry in War-wick-shyre, right?"

Maybe Coventry really is where it's at on a global scale.


Quote:
Originally Posted by twilight_2008 View Post
I lived in Hagley for a long time (Am now in Wolverhampton), and as it is part of the West Midlands Conurbation, I think it's about time Dudley Council took it over, I've heard rumours Dudley is looking to take in Hagley, instead of Bromsgrove having it, but it would make more sense surely as Hagley is in the DY8/9 postcode area like Stourbridge, and includes Stourbridge, West Midlands in its addresses.
I don't know Hagley very well, other than driving through on the way to this and that a place, but don't most people move to Hagley to get away from the conurbation and to be a bit closer to the countryside? Same as Kinver and similar places around the area. I think on the whole they like being in Worcestershire/Bromsgrove district.


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Although I get the feeling this is an argument of local diehards vs local diehards so isn't going to get anywhere. :p
That's the thing. And equally I don't know why Brummies would want to get lumped with the Black Country towns anyway! Apart from the fact it would make Birmingham's population look bigger to the people of Manchester.
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Old April 19th, 2012, 08:13 PM   #116
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Let looks at in on a global scale... if you said Los Angeles what would you think? Las Vegas? Tokyo?

Or would you know Burbank? Clark County? Hino?
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Old April 19th, 2012, 09:05 PM   #117
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Quote:
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If we're going by anecdotal evidence I based that on my American friends, who knew where the Black Country was (but thought Birmingham was in it).
Exactly, Americans (and others) who do have a sense of geography often think that The Black Country is another (colloquial) name for Birmingham. I agree the opinions expressed here are largely based on anecdotal evidence, but wouldn't many people in the U.K. returning from a trip to Disneyland, say they had been to Los Angeles rather than Anaheim? The name of the dominant city is often used to refer to the 'city region', and it is Birmingham, not Walsall, Wolverhampton, Solihull or, heavens forbid, Sandwell that serves to describe the West Midlands conurbation.
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Old April 19th, 2012, 09:10 PM   #118
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I am currently in Winnetka, San Fernando Valley, about 20 miles NW of downtown LA but feel connected to it as well as communities way down to Orange County about 65 miles away - it's all joined up sprawl!
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Old April 19th, 2012, 09:17 PM   #119
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Quote:
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It doesn't, nor does 'West Midlands'. In Canada the average person has no idea where the Black Country is and I know of one instance where a questioner was told authoritatively that it was the area around Stoke on Trent! In any case, wasn't it originally coined as a derogative term? Despite the parochial pride, I'm afraid the only 'global brand' is Birmingham. I've met people who have been to Wolverhampton or Solihull on business and invariably they say they were in Birmingham.


Exactly, so whether people in other parts of "Greater" Birmingham like it or not, they are already seen as being Birmingham.
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Old April 19th, 2012, 09:21 PM   #120
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Trying to appease everyone by saying its the 'Birmingham, Wolverhampton, Walsall, Dudley' region aint going to work. I agree with Victorian, the most well known city in the region is used to refer to the greater area.

Naming it Greater West Bromwich is like calling London Greater Westminster.

I think political correctness needs to be discarded well and truly and Greater Birmingham is the way forward.

Anyway, its kind of academic since most people disregard counties when talking about large cities and just call it what they want to anyway. People who visit Sutton Coldfield or West Brom will probably say they went to Birmingham, not the West Midlands.
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