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Old June 23rd, 2004, 07:13 PM   #41
bileduct
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iain1974
It's HUGE! Far, far bigger than anything esle on earth. If it had the same 'seating density' as Stade de France it would seat 170,000!
Then why don't they??? This isn't a multiplex cinema or business class on a 747 we're talking about here - you don't go to a football match for legroom, you go for atmosphere. Imagine what that stadium would be like with 170,000 fans tightly packed into the space, particularly if the acoustics are as good as people seem to think they will be.

Too much space is a bad thing in a football ground anyway (there's nothing worse than a half-empty stadium, is there, and who wants to be needlessly far away from the pitch?) and if this space is at the expense of an extra 70,000 punters then that's just wrong. It looks pointedly elitist to me - keeping the masses out to make it more attractive to the prawn sandwich types.

(Arch looks great, though - saw it from the North Circular for the first time last weekend - ******* enormous)
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Old June 23rd, 2004, 08:54 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by high_flyer
The FA are gonna use Wembley as much as they can, they have invested alot of money into it, so Cardiff won't get a look in
Wembley wouldnt be used for semi finals,and Cardiff would be good enough to host a Champions League Final if chosen.
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Old June 23rd, 2004, 09:23 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bileduct
Then why don't they??? This isn't a multiplex cinema or business class on a 747 we're talking about here - you don't go to a football match for legroom, you go for atmosphere. Imagine what that stadium would be like with 170,000 fans tightly packed into the space, particularly if the acoustics are as good as people seem to think they will be.

Too much space is a bad thing in a football ground anyway (there's nothing worse than a half-empty stadium, is there, and who wants to be needlessly far away from the pitch?) and if this space is at the expense of an extra 70,000 punters then that's just wrong. It looks pointedly elitist to me - keeping the masses out to make it more attractive to the prawn sandwich types.

(Arch looks great, though - saw it from the North Circular for the first time last weekend - ******* enormous)
Very very few teams would fill it and the transport infrastructure would be unable to cope with so many fans! I think the best size wouldve been 110,000 as quoted elsewhere in the thread.

I think they should keep the playoff finals and FA Cup semi-finals at Cardiff. Imagine the Division 3 playoff final at Wembley? They may as well close the upper tier completly!
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Old June 24th, 2004, 12:10 AM   #44
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I'm in London on July 4th the night of the European Championship final, hopefully England will be there but from past experience I'm not building my hopes up.

Anyway, do you reckon the arch will be lit that night, because so I'm going to try and get some photos from some vantage points I know.

Thanks.
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Old June 24th, 2004, 04:03 PM   #45
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Construction pics from early to mid may before the arch went up.





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Old June 25th, 2004, 08:36 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bileduct
Then why don't they??? This isn't a multiplex cinema or business class on a 747 we're talking about here - you don't go to a football match for legroom, you go for atmosphere. Imagine what that stadium would be like with 170,000 fans tightly packed into the space, particularly if the acoustics are as good as people seem to think they will be.

Too much space is a bad thing in a football ground anyway (there's nothing worse than a half-empty stadium, is there, and who wants to be needlessly far away from the pitch?) and if this space is at the expense of an extra 70,000 punters then that's just wrong. It looks pointedly elitist to me - keeping the masses out to make it more attractive to the prawn sandwich types.

(Arch looks great, though - saw it from the North Circular for the first time last weekend - ******* enormous)
I wonder what this "accomodation area" includes. Its hard to imagine that 170,000 could fit in with stade de france-like qualities??

When the capacity was set, though, I think the main focus was not on the stadium, but on the transport links to the stadium. It might very well make sense to expand capacity by reducing space at least in the less expensive sections if the transport system can handle the crowds well
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Old June 26th, 2004, 05:38 PM   #47
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kindomca:

New Wembley: 173,000sq.m
Stade de France: 70,000sq.m

Rough estimates of using actual seating and interiors to that of the Stade de France in the accomodation area of the new Wembley would see an insane capacity of around 197,000!
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Old June 26th, 2004, 05:55 PM   #48
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nick... are you saying that if wembley had the same seats space as the stade de france it would be 197000 or are you just comparing the stadion ground area?
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Old June 26th, 2004, 06:52 PM   #49
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Aha - the new Wembley is nearly 2.5x larger than the Stade de France with only a 10,000 larger capacity!
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Old July 8th, 2004, 12:43 PM   #50
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shaping up very nicely

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Old July 9th, 2004, 07:21 PM   #51
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Taken by Starscraper

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Old July 10th, 2004, 06:40 AM   #52
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Nick, I doubt you can use the figures like that. It doesnt sound credible that it should be possible to have 200,000 seated in such a way around the pitch enjoying stade de france-like leg room. It doesnt add up to me.
Also if you divide the accomodation area with the number of seats, its almost 2 sq. meters per seat, thats more than a couch!

Dont you think its a case of Wembley including all their facilities under the stand etc in the accomodation area?
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Old July 10th, 2004, 07:35 AM   #53
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no its true, the area of eachseat is 1.92m2 the proof is here
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Old July 10th, 2004, 07:14 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingdomca
Nick, I doubt you can use the figures like that. It doesnt sound credible that it should be possible to have 200,000 seated in such a way around the pitch enjoying stade de france-like leg room. It doesnt add up to me.
Also if you divide the accomodation area with the number of seats, its almost 2 sq. meters per seat, thats more than a couch!

Dont you think its a case of Wembley including all their facilities under the stand etc in the accomodation area?

I agree. It doesn't add up.

Also the height of new Wem-ber-lee will be around 45m, (to the top of the stands....) so it's not like it'll be the tallest stadium ever made. I suppose the span of the stands maybe huge......but from the pictures I've seen, OT has a wider roof span, and the North Stand is higher. Once complete Old Trafford will have a capacity of 94,000.......perhaps over 100,000, if the ends were three tier a la North Stand.

There's no way the new Wem-ber-lee, will be 70% bigger than a complete three tier Old Trafford.

I don't know how they've done the stats, but they simply don't look right.
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Old July 10th, 2004, 07:30 PM   #55
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No the stats are for accomodation area, ie seating - In accomodation area terms Wembley will be 2.5x that of the Stade de France for only 10,000 more seats - it will in other words be more relaxing, comfortable and spacious for all. Old Trafford might very well have aspirations to go to 100,000 (if it ever builds over the railway lines for instance), but it will be for totaly accomodation area be still smaller than Wembley. If OT is more spacious than the Stade de France then it will only probably need some 170,000 seats to be equal in accomodation area to the 90,000 accomodation area of Wembley.

Simply but it this way, think of the stadia as office towers, Wembley will be the biggest office tower in football terms eg the Burj Dubai
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Old July 10th, 2004, 08:24 PM   #56
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It doesn't look that big. Which is my point. You can throw a shedload of stats around, but to the eye Wembley doesn't look like 2.5 X Stade the France, interms of accomodation area, ie size of the stands.


Right, now.....if(BIG IF) OT is similar to Stade the France, in accomodation area.....and it becomes a three tier 100,000 stadia, there's no way it'll look 70 percent smaller in accomodation area than Wembley. Why do I feel I am friggin repeating myself. Like I said before, the North Stand/United Road is taller than the new Wembley and by the looks of it, has a wider span....... Which means that IF the stats are indeed correct, either the span of the new Wembley is bigger OR the height is. But from what I've seen it's not in both cases. How it's got such a huge accomodation area is beyond me.

Unless, the stands are more further away from the pitch..... OT's stands are very close on all four sides, to the touchline. But even then those stats look off.
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Old July 10th, 2004, 08:39 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nick_taylor
kindomca:

New Wembley: 173,000sq.m
Stade de France: 70,000sq.m

Rough estimates of using actual seating and interiors to that of the Stade de France in the accomodation area of the new Wembley would see an insane capacity of around 197,000!

The bowl/seating capacity of the new wembley is actually 47,136sq.m [source: Brent Council (the location of new wembley) sub-committee report 2002 - table2 in page13 of the report for those interested] and not 173,000sq.m. So a capacity of 90,000 seems more realistic than around the 200,000 that seems to have been suggested in some earlier posts.

However, I still think the new wembley's design is awesome and 90,000 is still a huge capacity.

I guess the 173,000sq.m probably includes catering space, boxes, shops etc. Infact in the report the total floorspace is actually a bigger number 228,848sq.m - this includes media facilities, toilets, concourse etc.

The report can be found in the wembley planning section of the Brent Council website:
www.brent.gov.uk
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Old July 10th, 2004, 08:45 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raswok15
The bowl/seating capacity of the new wembley is actually 47,136sq.m k[/URL]

Finally some sense!

I knew it didn't look that big. As you've said it seems about right for a 90K stadia.

Got some right nutters on here.

I wonder how the size of the bowl compares with other stadia...

As for the 'accomodation size', I am sure it includes corporate stuff.
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Old July 10th, 2004, 09:40 PM   #59
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Nutters? What on earth are you on about - I'm comparing like for like - now whos the nutter.............

http://www.wembleystadium.com/brilli..._design-68.htm

Wembely - 173,000
Stade de France - 70,000
Stadium Australia - 100,000
Arena Aufschalke - 58,796
Sapporo Dome - 53,000

And your calling me a nutter because it "doesn't look that big" - the Old Wembley was comparable to Old Trafford, but the new Wembley dewarfs the old one. The new one isn't even complete yet - they aint even got to the top of the stadium - ie the roof yet!!! So its a bit stupid to make such quick judgements

But using the accomodation area which is comparable - IF the new Wembely followed the seating and accomodation patterns as that of the Stade de France but had the 173,000 accomodation area then it would using a simple little calculation be able to have a capacity of around 197,000 give or take a few thousand. Not that hard to do the calculation, take into effect that the Stade de France seating area would in turn be greatly reduced as well, but remember - I was comparing actual accomodation area's

Raswok15 -your referring this PA (page 13): http://www.brent.gov.uk/Planning.nsf/e35824689957a84280256623005fc7af/b07f73cfb5783ae08025682800430343/$FILE/REVISEDSCHEME-FINALCOMMREPORT.pdf
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Old July 10th, 2004, 10:03 PM   #60
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Nick - the so called "accomodation area" includes toilets, concourse, shops, storage rooms etc. I have never seen actual stadium bowl seatng within those locations !! How about you?

Therefore, a more sensible comparison for seating capacity would be between actual bowl/seating floorspace. For the new wembley this is 47,136sq.m - I suggest if you are going to compare seating capacity with stade de france and other stadium you compare with the appropriate bowl/seating floorspace. You are likely to get more realistic figures and comparisons that people will take seriously.

However, one thing we are agreed on is that the new wembley will be awesome. It does not have to be 197,000 capacity for this - 90,000 is quite huge.
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