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Old March 21st, 2016, 12:57 PM   #1
lolantha
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Urban Planning Ideas & Discussions

Bring out the best!

Is there any unique aspect of your city that you are proud of? Is there anything that you want to change in your city? Have you seen any interesting aspect of a city that you have visited or that you have seen on the internet? Or if you are seeking other members' ideas into solving an urban issue?

Here's the thread to do just all that.

Last edited by lolantha; March 21st, 2016 at 03:46 PM.
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Old March 21st, 2016, 12:59 PM   #2
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My first question is how would you convince people in a humid and hot city to leave cars and use alternative means of transportation? Is there anyone with any ideas?
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Old March 21st, 2016, 01:49 PM   #3
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Anyway, an interesting city that has employed unusual and creative solutions to solve urban issues is Medellin in Colombia. It's the Colombia's second largest city and it's very mountainous. It was also plagued with violence in the recent times and now emerging as a model city. It was chosen as a winner of the 2012 Sustainable Transport award - http://thecityfix.com/blog/san-franc...ansport-award/.

One of the most creative features of the city is its cable car network (known as Metrocable) that serves as a mass transit system. It was designed to provide access for inhabitants of the city who reside in the mountainous suburbs of the city where it was previously difficult to travel. The suburbs were also some of the most disadvantaged regions in the city.



Metrocable is consisted of 3 lines - Line K, Line L and Line J. Line K and J were built as urban public transport systems and the other was built for the purpose of sightseeing for tourism purposes which leads to a nature reserve in the edge of the city. The first (line K) carries up to 30,000 passengers per day. The cable car also became a prototype for social intervention in the most financially deprived regions of the city. Metrocable project also provided environmental benefits. It was projected to have contributed to a reduction of 121,029 tCO2 in the period from 2010 to 2016. I couldn't find up to date information regarding the actulal reduction of CO2 emissions.



For more information, refer to this research paper published in 2012.

https://www.bartlett.ucl.ac.uk/dpu/m...-2012-UNEP.pdf

It serves as an example of how lack of resources can be overcome by creative approaches into solving "unsolvable" urban issues. They have used something that's typically not used to solve the issue they are dealing with and successfully utilized it.

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Old March 21st, 2016, 01:59 PM   #4
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My first question is how would you convince people in a humid and hot city to leave cars and use alternative means of transportation? Is there anyone with any ideas?
We've that situation right now in Okinawa Island. It has the highest population density outside of the 4 big metro areas of Japan.
However since Okinawa spent nearly 30 years under direct US occupation after WW2, its urban planning system changed to that of the US before going back to a Japanese system.

However as a result, the place is car country and traffic is very bad.
Its also hot and humid.

Rail is needed but hard to implement because there's some local resentment (they see it as an image of the Japanese mainland and wish to be distinct), opposition from the strong bus and taxi group, and money (usually there's lots of money for infrastructure project from the government, but usually its a carrot and stick strategy.. in exchange for calming local resentment towards US military bases and accepting it, they offer a bunch of other things).

There is one rail line, but its only within the capital. It took 10 years of negotiating against the bus and taxi opposition. But once it launched.. and after 10 years.. it took ALOT of cars off the financial district/government office areas, reduced carbon emissions by a significant amount, and a lot of tourists use it. After that, there's been more interest in expanding it to the rest of the island but again, carrot and stick.

Another example is Honolulu. It attempted rail at least 3 times. The corridor between Waipahu to Hawaii Kai contains something like 80% of the island's population and most of the state's population. Honolulu is too dense, so the state tried to develop a second city in Kapolei, but while residential areas moved and some government functions.. very few businesses moved. So as a result, people are now commuting from far away to get to work in Honolulu, and traffic became worsened. The first two times, rail was narrowly defeated by 1 vote that was controversial as the last person dissenting quit shortly after suspicions of corruption.
The first plan was a conventional rail system, the second one was a street based LRT. When I interned at the state's planning department, I saw the blue prints of the LRT design. It seemed feasible (although closing off a street lane to design it would surely piss off many commuters), it seemed it was killed off politically. The incoming governor didn't want anything to do with the previous governor's ideas (despite being same party).
I don't know the percentage, but it does seem people there are half half about it. half want an end to congestion.. the opposing half are a mixture of people not benefitting from the line (other islanders, or people in the winward side of Oahu) and paying taxes for it.. environmentalists, and some Hawaiian activist groups worried it'll require digging up of ancestral areas.
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Old March 21st, 2016, 02:24 PM   #5
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Singapore seems to be the success story in this instance. By heavily restricting car use and by building a massive rail-based infrastructure they are shifting the modal split in the country to public transport.

May I also take the time to point out that there is a "Citytalk and Urban Issues" forum for this very kind of discussion. I would strongly, strongly recommend people actually check it out. The skybar is not really the place for on-topic discussions like this, and it would be great if we could populate the Citytalk section with more discussions of this calibre.
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Old March 21st, 2016, 02:40 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Svartmetall View Post
May I also take the time to point out that there is a "Citytalk and Urban Issues" forum for this very kind of discussion. I would strongly, strongly recommend people actually check it out. The skybar is not really the place for on-topic discussions like this, and it would be great if we could populate the Citytalk section with more discussions of this calibre.
Is it possible to move this thread to that section?
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Old March 21st, 2016, 02:56 PM   #7
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I can indeed. I'll let it get a bit of interest first, and then I'll move it and leave a "redirect" here so that people can follow your thread. I think if I move it now and leave a redirect, people who have not followed the discussion from the start might not click it.

Sound okay?
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Old March 21st, 2016, 03:14 PM   #8
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Singapore seems to be the success story in this instance. By heavily restricting car use and by building a massive rail-based infrastructure they are shifting the modal split in the country to public transport.
It seems in many parts of SG, from train station to workplace, shopping, or eating.. you can go almost the entire way with air conditioning.
For a hot and humid place, young singaporeans sure seem intolerant to heat.
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Old March 21st, 2016, 03:36 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by RyukyuRhymer View Post
We've that situation right now in Okinawa Island. It has the highest population density outside of the 4 big metro areas of Japan.
However since Okinawa spent nearly 30 years under direct US occupation after WW2, its urban planning system changed to that of the US before going back to a Japanese system.

However as a result, the place is car country and traffic is very bad.
Its also hot and humid.

Rail is needed but hard to implement because there's some local resentment (they see it as an image of the Japanese mainland and wish to be distinct), opposition from the strong bus and taxi group, and money (usually there's lots of money for infrastructure project from the government, but usually its a carrot and stick strategy.. in exchange for calming local resentment towards US military bases and accepting it, they offer a bunch of other things).

There is one rail line, but its only within the capital. It took 10 years of negotiating against the bus and taxi opposition. But once it launched.. and after 10 years.. it took ALOT of cars off the financial district/government office areas, reduced carbon emissions by a significant amount, and a lot of tourists use it. After that, there's been more interest in expanding it to the rest of the island but again, carrot and stick.

Another example is Honolulu. It attempted rail at least 3 times. The corridor between Waipahu to Hawaii Kai contains something like 80% of the island's population and most of the state's population. Honolulu is too dense, so the state tried to develop a second city in Kapolei, but while residential areas moved and some government functions.. very few businesses moved. So as a result, people are now commuting from far away to get to work in Honolulu, and traffic became worsened. The first two times, rail was narrowly defeated by 1 vote that was controversial as the last person dissenting quit shortly after suspicions of corruption.
The first plan was a conventional rail system, the second one was a street based LRT. When I interned at the state's planning department, I saw the blue prints of the LRT design. It seemed feasible (although closing off a street lane to design it would surely piss off many commuters), it seemed it was killed off politically. The incoming governor didn't want anything to do with the previous governor's ideas (despite being same party).
I don't know the percentage, but it does seem people there are half half about it. half want an end to congestion.. the opposing half are a mixture of people not benefitting from the line (other islanders, or people in the winward side of Oahu) and paying taxes for it.. environmentalists, and some Hawaiian activist groups worried it'll require digging up of ancestral areas.
Thanks for the reply. Temperature of Okinawa is somewhat cooler than that of, say, a tropical country such as Singapore. I was sort of looking for a place where inhabitants resist using alternative means of transport due to excess heat otherwise the situation in Okinawa is quite similar to North American cities by the insights you have provided. I watched a programme on CNBC before which addressed the exact problem as you mentioned. In Canada's case they have increased the density of cities as a solution to this problem. Some neighbourhoods in Canada are so much worse that they are extremely dangerous for pedestrians since they don't have a sidewalk and the shops are too far away which forces reaidents into using cars. So the planners were unable to find a solution and in the programme they mentioned that it could be impossible to solve and instead they should take such issues into consideration when building new housing areas. I also think that in some areas, there is a problem with attitudes and practices. In some cases, cars are used despite therr being better alternatives and in those situation, it's necessary to implement some strategies into discouraging use of cars. A good example could be using Singapore's model of charging for driving within city limits.

Doesn't Honolulu have a rail rapid transit system under construction?

Singapore is an ideal example but as you said, they have less tolerance to heat and therefore use air conditioned spaces frequently so is this model affordable for developing countries like India?

Last edited by lolantha; March 21st, 2016 at 03:57 PM.
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Old March 21st, 2016, 04:30 PM   #10
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Quote:
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Doesn't Honolulu have a rail rapid transit system under construction?

Singapore is an ideal example but as you said, they have less tolerance to heat and therefore use air conditioned spaces frequently so is this model affordable for developing countries like India?
Yes Honolulu finally does have one under construction, which is why I mentioned the opposition. I do feel that they went overboard with it though. it seems like the thinking was "now that we got federal money for it, we might as well go all out".

In the case of a developing country, I'm guessing cost is one of the main issues.

depending on the size.. light rail system like those used in Japan could be easier and cheaper to implement.

Here is one in Kagoshima Japan, which is sub-tropical.
It simply utilized existing road spaces and the "stations" are more like bus stops. thus it is not expensive. no manned or large stations.
people play in the train just like a bus. but you have higher capacity, less smog, and reduces traffic


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Old March 21st, 2016, 04:49 PM   #11
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I can indeed. I'll let it get a bit of interest first, and then I'll move it and leave a "redirect" here so that people can follow your thread. I think if I move it now and leave a redirect, people who have not followed the discussion from the start might not click it.

Sound okay?
Does it mean that the thread doesn't reappear in the other section? I posted it in the Skybar because I wasn't sure that this topic is relevant to the forum. Other than that, it's fine.
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Old March 21st, 2016, 05:21 PM   #12
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Does it mean that the thread doesn't reappear in the other section? I posted it in the Skybar because I wasn't sure that this topic is relevant to the forum. Other than that, it's fine.
It will appear there when I actually move it. But I will move on Wednesday. You will see a "moved thread" link here in the sky bar that will automatically link to the home of the new thread.
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Old March 21st, 2016, 06:21 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by RyukyuRhymer View Post
Yes Honolulu finally does have one under construction, which is why I mentioned the opposition. I do feel that they went overboard with it though. it seems like the thinking was "now that we got federal money for it, we might as well go all out".

In the case of a developing country, I'm guessing cost is one of the main issues.

depending on the size.. light rail system like those used in Japan could be easier and cheaper to implement.

Here is one in Kagoshima Japan, which is sub-tropical.
It simply utilized existing road spaces and the "stations" are more like bus stops. thus it is not expensive. no manned or large stations.
people play in the train just like a bus. but you have higher capacity, less smog, and reduces traffic
You are correct. Although LRT requires some extra cost for tracks, electric catenary and depots and the hugher cost per one unit when compared to a bus, it has a higher capacity. Light Rail seems to be an excellent option but why is that many developing countries don't adapt it? Is it because of extra space for tracks that LRT takes?
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Old March 21st, 2016, 07:53 PM   #14
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Can we change the threads title to "The Three Musketeers"? Because so far there is only three of you part take in this discussion.
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Old March 21st, 2016, 08:25 PM   #15
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Can we change the threads title to "The Three Musketeers"? Because so far there is only three of you part take in this discussion.
Now that you joined it, let's make it 4.
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Old March 21st, 2016, 08:45 PM   #16
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No im not, im only being a a moderator here.
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Old March 21st, 2016, 09:41 PM   #17
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Doesn't matter you participated
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Old March 22nd, 2016, 02:57 AM   #18
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Can we change the threads title to "The Three Musketeers"? Because so far there is only three of you part take in this discussion.
well its better than the geborgenheit vs disident threads that are all over news forum
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Old March 22nd, 2016, 04:17 AM   #19
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Quote:
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My first question is how would you convince people in a humid and hot city to leave cars and use alternative means of transportation? Is there anyone with any ideas?
I believe we should copy some of policies implemented by Singapore, such as:
  • Having rail-based transportation and extensive bus services all over the city, although this one would not prevail without enforcing and giving incentives to the people to make them shift to public transportation (see next point)
  • Implementing electric road pricing in major roads
  • Increasing parking fee
  • Making the public transportation extremely affordable, if possible, free of charge
  • Making good pedestrian facility, if you can build it underground then go for it
This problem is even much more acute in my country. In fact, much of traffic woes are caused by motorcycle instead of automobile. In Indonesia, even high schoolers and people of the very bottom of our socio-economic ladder can easily afford one. Most people abuse it at insane level, such as travelling for a tiny distance like 100 meter away by motorcycle, although it is extremely traversable by foot by everyone else's standard. To add salt to the wound, the fuel price is also extremely cheap, which is ironic since we import crude oil.

Aside of the aformentioned solution, it is massively important to educate the masses (I think even in case of my country it has to be indoctrinated). It has to be taught since grade school and beyond that such bad habit is going to kill us in every way. It depletes taxpayers' money, it kill people's productivity and fitness by making everyone overweight and obese, and it makes them lazy.


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It seems in many parts of SG, from train station to workplace, shopping, or eating.. you can go almost the entire way with air conditioning.
For a hot and humid place, young singaporeans sure seem intolerant to heat.
Agreed, public transportation and pedestrian facilities have to be integrated with such places. Hong Kong is also a very good example although it is subtropical. Sadly every tropical country aside of Singapore seems not learning from this lesson despite having built shiny metros, the populace keep choosing private vehicles instead of public transportation.
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Old March 22nd, 2016, 04:27 AM   #20
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the fourth Musketeer.
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