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Old August 24th, 2018, 06:24 PM   #161
Urbanova
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The answer, I guess no: https://medium.com/p/a264c26044c6?so...509-1534699334
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Old September 1st, 2018, 09:36 PM   #162
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Whenever I come across something like this during my travels my blood starts to boil. The car has been such an unmitigated disaster when urban realm is concerned.

Probably the most complete and beautiful Medieval Square has been turned into a fcuking car park! Disaster! It should be pedestrian space. Full stop.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.10...2!8i6656?hl=en

Same situation here. A handsome Georgian Square...full of cars...

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.75...2!8i6656?hl=en

I think historic towns and villages like that should follow Sienna's model and ban car usage within their centres. Put some car parks outside the centre instead.
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Old September 2nd, 2018, 12:49 AM   #163
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The car is of course an amazing invention but its been horribly misused, its done more harm than good to humanity
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Old September 2nd, 2018, 01:12 AM   #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Greco View Post
Whenever I come across something like this during my travels my blood starts to boil. The car has been such an unmitigated disaster when urban realm is concerned.
Do local businesses and residents want the parking spaces gone? Or should planners think of pleasing visitors first and foremost?
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Old September 2nd, 2018, 01:41 AM   #165
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The residents who don't drive obviously want them gone, anyway its absolutely not necessary for these car parks in such tiny easily walkable sized urban areas in the examples above and especially not in those locations of exceptional architecture /urban space

Its a wonder how all the nice little towns and cities around italy and spain and france manage to keep their urban areas so wonderfully pedestrian friendly without some type of social dysfunction or economic implosion while brits and irish and americans and aussies feel compelled to fill every piece of free space with cars, sure makes you think doesnt it!
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Old September 2nd, 2018, 02:31 AM   #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wakka12 View Post
The residents who don't drive obviously want them gone, anyway its absolutely not necessary for these car parks in such tiny easily walkable sized urban areas in the examples above and especially not in those locations of exceptional architecture /urban space

Its a wonder how all the nice little towns and cities around italy and spain and france manage to keep their urban areas so wonderfully pedestrian friendly without some type of social dysfunction or economic implosion while brits and irish and americans and aussies feel compelled to fill every piece of free space with cars, sure makes you think doesnt it!
If anyone proposed to build half the amount of expressways Madrid has cutting through its urban fabric in Dublin or London people would probably riot.
Again just another example of car haters selective vision. Complain about a parking lot in some beautiful (but honestly architecturally irrelevant) square while citing a country that literally has a 6 lane motorway a few meters from the royal palace as an example of the right balance between cars and pedestrians
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Old September 2nd, 2018, 01:50 PM   #167
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^ your post makes no sense whatsoever. Why would someone who hates cars disapprove of the square turned into a parking but NOT also disapprove of massive urban highways? There is literally no such person.
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Old September 2nd, 2018, 11:35 PM   #168
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I know the larger cities in those countries aren't particularly pedestrian friendly ! I actually found Paris and Rome very car dominated but its why I said smaller cities, Florence, Siena, Bordeaux, Montpellier, Taragona, Valencia, are a lot more pedestrian friendly than similar size cities in the other western countries I mentioned

And Madrid does have a lot of motorways on the outer areas but it has a very large central area which caters more to pedestrians than cars

There are definitely some cultures in the world that value car free public space and provide it with no negative consequences

And also places don't need to ban cars to be pedestrian friendly..landscaping(widening footpaths, limiting on street parking,outdoor seating, underground car parks) and provision of good PT can go a long way to improving pedestrian experience to same level as complete car ban without completely limiting cars. Speaking of London I think its a very good example of a city which has rather few fully pedestrianised areas but much of the city is very comfortable to walk around , definitely a good model. Its incredible public transport is surely a large factor in why such a large dense city feels like it handles cars pretty well, doesnt feel choked by them at all like some big cities do.
Im not necessarily in favour of complete car bans but the examples provided by el greco are an absolute disgrace, completely shameful use of what could be lovely public space.
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Old September 3rd, 2018, 12:08 AM   #169
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Yes the part of Rome with the really narrow streets was very lovely and walkable, but I don't know, my perception from visiting was just that it felt very car dominated in a lot of places, like I was often dodging cars on these wide multilane roads and everyone drove so fast. And there was a very busy wide road beside the colosseum and the forum and all the archaelogical ruins,via dei fori imperiali, which I found a bit disappointing, I thought of all places in the city to ban cars, that would have to be the place, but maybe its a very vital road and I just don't know much about the workings of Romes transport

I also found it strange seeing really busy wide roads literally surrounding ancient ruins, like the pyramid cestius, it was like 2000 years old, yet there was nowhere to view it from because of how car busy the surrounding area was, same with outside caragalla baths was just huge wide roads, some parts of the ancient walls too ,just car city, some of the less nice areas a bit outside the very central area, were very busy with cars too. Also I found a lot of drivers broke red lights.

But as you say, Rome has plenty of large parts of the city where you can completely escape from cars, so its not that big of a deal
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Old September 3rd, 2018, 09:49 AM   #170
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Rome gets an unfair bad reputation IMO. Yes there's relatively heavy traffic by Western European on certain roads, but I took the bus at rush hour on a Monday to go from Termini station to Ciampino airport and it only took half an hour without a dedicated bus lane. The same trajectory in Bucharest (from Gara de Nord to Otopeni airport, similar distance) was taking well over two hours at that time! I think the bad impression Rome leaves to many people comes from how difficult it is to cross certain large roads as a pedestrian, on crossings without lights and with drivers not overly keen on stopping. The centre is also great for walking, although I haven't visited since I became a parent (which has made me much more strict in my judgment).
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Old September 7th, 2018, 06:28 PM   #171
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I am not sure if it is still like that but a good while ago I was taking the bus to the western periphery of Rome for a week and it was the craziest thing PT wise I have ever done. The bus was not all to frequent but so packed full every single time I used it that it was barely possibly to squeeze in, sometimes literally impossible. The buses needed quite some time at every stop until finally the doors managed to close. I don't know if it was just that line, just unfortunate time or if it is a more general problem.
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Old March 4th, 2019, 05:00 AM   #172
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If you've ever been to Texas, it looks like the "age of the car" is still in full bloom! New and expanded freeways are constantly under construction, as if they can't build them fast enough. I'm glad so much of the rest of the world is smart enough to invest in more sustainable forms of transportation and development, rather than catering so heavily to the private automobile. Even if some magical, 100% renewable, zero-emissions means of powering cars came into being, the social detriments and safety risks associated with automobile-oriented urbanism would still remain.

(Hi, I'm new here.)
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Old March 4th, 2019, 09:04 PM   #173
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The age of the car isn't going anywhere It's hold on the West maybe waning but it is becoming ever more popular in developing countries due to mobility issues and having a car in most developing countries is still a status symbol.

If there is one thing that will result in the decline of the car, surprisingly, it's the rise of self-driving cars. They take the control, power, and fun out of driving where you are no longer 'in the driver's seat'. They will make driving as fun and interesting as having tea on an old sofa at grandma's house.
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Old March 10th, 2019, 06:23 PM   #174
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Maybe so, but take China for example. They are very harshly restricting car license plates in their large cities and a big chunk of the Chinese population lives in such cities.

Equally, many developing countries nowadays understand that it is a terrible idea to only set your horses on car mobility and thefore also invest massively in creating metro networks and modernizing feeder PT lines. It is borderline absurd how major US cities are presumably not capable of getting a proper Metro network, while various cities in up and coming countries seem to be capable of building such a system.
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