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76K views 303 replies 24 participants last post by  Ken O'Heed 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
Hadrian's Wall through the Centre of Newcastle.

This might be one for you Historian.

While browsing wikipedia at work, ahem, I mean...on lunch.... I came across a reference to a replica roman milecastle behind the Newcastle Arts Centre at the location where it would have been on Hadrians Wall.

Is this right?

.
 
#27 ·
Monkchester - Real or Myth

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The Journal, Wednesday 2nd November 2011 (this article was not published on-line) . . .
It certainly is an interesting discussion point as to whether the religious settlement of Monkchester actually existed.

Oddly enough I'm reading A.W. Purdie's new book "Newcastle The Biography" and he makes the point that there is no known documentary or archaeological evidence to support the theory that the Roman Fort of Pons Aelius was occupied by Monks upon the withdrawal of the Roman Army in 400 A.D.

Purdie does mention some documentary evidence in as much as Monks from Evesham ventured North in 1074 to find Monkchester but found 'not any remains of its former Sanctity, no Footsteps of the Religious People who had formerly dwelt there'.

No doubt the research and dating of the skeletons found in the cemetery will give a better idea of the date, however it is strange that if Monkchester (City of the Monks) did indeed exist as an Anglo-Saxon religious foundation then there would have been contemporary records.

The Anglo-Saxon Church that is mentioned in Tony Henderson's piece is under one of the railway viaduct arches and these photographs were taken 18t September 2011. Opinion appears to vary on what in truth the remains represent, could be a Church or even the base of a Church Tower





Talking of archaeology - the book 'Digging Deeper: the archaeology of Newcastle and Gateshead from the earliest times to the middle ages' by Dave Heslop and Zoe McAuley and published by Tyne Bridge Publishing is released this coming Tuesday, 8th November 2011.

Courtesy of the Tyne Bridge site @ http://www2.newcastle.gov.uk/tbp.nsf/BookSearchCMS/817B327E4B5430568025782D003413AA
Description
In the beginning was the river. Long before the Romans built their world famous Wall from Wallsend to the Solway Firth there were Tynesiders living by the River Tyne, that vital source of food, communication, a barrier and a protection. Some of the earliest inhabitants left only traces for archaeologists to investigate, buried beneath layers of subsequent human activity. Later peoples left more obvious clues to their lives in the form of graves, walls, buildings, belongings and litter. Archaeologists are the detectives who painstakingly unpick these accidental clues to make us a window into the lives of our ancestors, which seem so different to our own. Tyne and Wear County Archaeologist Dave Heslop, and archaeological researcher Zoe McAuley tell the story of the excavations and exciting discoveries made in Newcastle and Gateshead. Detailed and colourful reconstructions of Roman and Medieval Tyneside, and a wealth of finds illustrations and excavation photographs bring these vanished worlds to life. Foreword by John Grundy Published in association with Tyne & Wear Archives and Museums.
 
#29 ·
Exciting season of discovery set to begin at Vindolanda
by Tony Henderson, The Journal, March 27th 2012


AT LEAST two more forts remain to be discovered this year on one of the prime sites on Hadrian’s Wall in Northumberland. The first of 650 volunteers from all over the world will start the 2012 excavation season next week at Vindolanda. All places were snapped up within hours of bookings opening online.

Under the direction of Dr Andrew Birley, the excavations promise to be one of the most exciting campaigns for many years on the Roman site.

Digging teams, boosted by Canadian students from the University of Western Ontario, will tackle a field to the north of the main site, where traces of two very early forts were discovered in 2010.


Read More - http://www.journallive.co.uk/north-...n-at-vindolanda-61634-30628975/#ixzz1qJbw8RRm
 
#31 ·
Hadrian's Wall ends at Tynemouth Priory claims archaeologist
by Joanne Butcher, The Journal, June 29th 2012


WALLSEND does not mark the end of Hadrian’s Wall, an archaeologist claims. The Roman Wall is generally believed to start at Bowness in Cumbria and stretch as far as Wallsend, but Clifford Jones believes it is time to rip up the guidebooks, claiming the wall would actually have reached as far as Tynemouth Priory on the East coast.

“After 20 years’ research I simply couldn’t accept the generally-accepted view of the wall,” said Mr Jones, a former archeologist with Lancaster University and a committee member of the Northern branch of the Council for British Archaeology. Lets look at one the biggest clues: Wallsend simply isn’t at the end of the landmass. Why does the wall make it to Bowness and not Tynemouth? A few things don’t add up."

Mr Jones believes it is unthinkable that the Romans would build a fortress across the country and just leave the last four miles open to barbarian enemies. It is possible Segedunum was just a branch of the wall, and there was a separate wall which ran to North Shields from Newcastle,” he said.


Read More - http://www.journallive.co.uk/north-...s-archaeologist-61634-31284101/#ixzz1zAWyFYjl
 
#33 ·
New project looks at hidden parts of Hadrian’s Wall
by Tony Henderson, The Journal, July 10th 2012


MORE than 500 people are expected to join in a community archaeology project now that it has been backed by a £400,000 award. The Heritage Lottery Fund award has gone to Tyne and Wear Archives & Museums for its Hadrian’s Wall and its Legacy on Tyneside venture. The project will begin in the autumn and aims to uncover more about the history of Hadrian’s Wall, from urban Tyneside to the Tyne Valley in Northumberland.

Sections of the Wall which will be a focus for research include the remains of the Roman Fort of Condercum in Benwell in Newcastle, sections of the Wall in Wallsend and Central Newcastle, Roman finds from Gateshead and the “lost” Roman road between Chesters and Corbridge, as well as Arbeia Roman Fort at South Shields, for many years the supply base for the Wall.

Ged Bell, of Tyne and Wear Archives & Museums, said: “This is a very exciting project which will reveal more about one of our region’s most important landmarks, from its starting point in Wallsend and heading as far west as Hexham and Corbridge. There will be opportunities for members of the public to get involved in everything from hands-on excavation work to surveying and desk-based research.”

The project hopes to unearth details about the lesser-known sections of Hadrian’s Wall, including large sections hidden under modern roads and buildings, and to raise awareness of the Wall in local communities. Participants will have the chance to learn a range of archaeological skills and there will be opportunities for people of all ages to get involved, working alongside professional archaeologists and historians.


Read More - http://www.journallive.co.uk/north-...-hadrian-s-wall-61634-31359413/#ixzz20CtxlCEo
 
#37 ·
Segedunum Roman Fort - Story to be told in new Exhibition
by Tony Henderson, The Journal, August 28th 2012


Segedunum in 1975

THE STORY of the rescue of a Roman fort hidden beneath terraces of homes is to be told in a new exhibition. When Victorian streets were cleared near Swan Hunter’s shipyard in Wallsend in North Tyneside in the 1970s, archaeologists carried out a trial dig. It was thought that any traces of Segedunum fort would have been lost due to centuries of previous development.

However, what the sample dig found was enough for plans to develop the cleared site to be scrapped. There followed nine years of annual excavations from 1975, led by the late Charles Daniels, a lecturer in archaeology at Newcastle University. During the nine years of digging, a complete plan of the base was recovered and made Segedunum the most excavated fort along Hadrian’s Wall, with surviving foundations of many buildings and part of the Wall itself.

Now an appeal is being made for people who took part in the digs to come forward with their memories, photographs and any keepsakes. The digs were staffed by university students, volunteers and young people on work experience schemes of the time. The personal stories and pictures will help shape the autumn exhibition which will explore the history of the fort and the development of the surrounding area.



Read More - http://www.journallive.co.uk/north-...-new-exhibition-61634-31708929/#ixzz24qJ0EEk8
 
#38 ·
Roman Temple of Antenociticus at Condercum (Benwell)

Took a trip up to Condercum yesterday to get some new photographs of the Roman Temple as the one's I had were from about 13 years ago, i.e. from the early days of digital!

Roman Temple of Antenociticus at Condercum (Benwell), Newcastle upon Tyne. (Broomridge Avenue)

Antenociticus was a Roman God and this Temple which stood outside of the Condercum Fort was dedicated to that entity. The Temple probably stood amongst a civilian settlement which had arisen outside of the Fort. It is unknown whether Antenociticus was a local God as the only reference found has been at Benwell.

The name Antenociticus has been translated as “God of the Antler-fringed forehead”.

Discovered in 1862 in what were the grounds if Condercum House.

Measuring 18 by 10 feet.

During the 1862 excavation two altars were located and these are currently held in the Great North Museum. The one’s on site are replicas. Also found were parts of a statue which is thought to have been of Antenociticus, a head with a torc around the neck and hair on the head with curls going forward resembling two horns. Parts of a leg and forearm were also found.

















These shots from the Museum of Antiquaries taken circa 1999




Photographs hosted on http://ellwood.fototime.com/Roman Temple of Antenociticus at Condercum
 
#39 ·
With all of these burns heading south to the Tyne, is there any record of how the Romans built their wall over them all?

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I've been reading through J Collingwood Bruce's Handbook to the Roman Wall and he has a sketch of a culvert that he claims was built in Hadrian's Wall to allow the Sugley Burn to pass through up near Denton Burn.

Evidently the circular arch is the drain which was built for the later West Road and the slabs underneath are the remains of the culvert built by the Romans on which the Wall would have stood. The culvert consisting of two lines of massive stones laid parallel to each other, about two feet apart. the top was covered overby other large blocks, giving the conduit a height equivalent to its breadth, the seems to have been the usual way of allowing brooks to pass the Wall.

As to the Ouseburn specifically, even Bruce confirms that no trace of the Wall can be found in the valley leading from Milecastle 3 which was at the Eastern end of what is now Byker Bridge.

This is Bruce's illustration, now well out of copyright.


Scan hosted on www.steve-ellwood.org.uk
 
#40 ·
Connecting Light Art is planned for Hadrian's Wall
The Journal, August 31st 2012



GLOWING orbs scattered along Hadrian’s Wall are set to light up the sky this weekend. The interactive art installation called 'Connecting Light' is made up of balloons fitted with LEDs and radio transmitters. Part of the London 2012 Cultural Olympiad, the 400-tethered balloons will shine when members of the public send messages through handheld devices. Information sent in through smartphones and computers will be encoded and communicated to the transmitters to make the balloons pulsate with colour.

Best seen at a selection of nine locations spanning one of the Roman Empire’s most important structures, the impressive installation is designed to help people views borders in a new light. It is the brainchild of the New York art-collective YesYesNo, founded by digital artist Zach Lieberman. He said: “The idea is to re-imagine the border not as something that divides but something that connects.

“We have designed a series of networked weather balloons, which can talk to each other sending messages along the length of the wall. The overall effect will be to show pulses of light as communication passes between the balloons and with the audience, who we’ll also invite to submit messages to directly control the installation.” The installation will be operational tonight and tomorrow between 8pm and 11pm and anyone hoping to take part will need to register as a ‘connector’


Read More (Two Pages) - http://www.journallive.co.uk/north-...-hadrian-s-wall-61634-31734987/#ixzz256igJUCG
 
#41 ·
Hadrian’s Wall lit up with Connecting Light artwork
by David Whetstone, The Journal, September 3rd 2012



THOUSANDS of people turned out at the weekend to see 'Connecting Light', one of the most ambitious and challenging projects of the Cultural Olympiad. Billed as a line of pulsating colours stretching the 73-mile length of Hadrian’s Wall, it cost £300,000 and comprised 400 tethered balloons lit internally by LED lights. At the official launch on Friday night at the Roman Army Museum at Greenhead, Cumbria, Linda Tuttiett, chief executive of Hadrian’s Wall Heritage, told an invited audience she had been overjoyed to read the submission by the New York art collective YesYesNo and its representative Zach Lieberman, who duly won the commission.

“His ideas fitted so closely with how we wanted to portray Hadrian’s Wall,” she said. A structure built by the Romans to keep different peoples apart was transformed by Connecting Light into a modern means of communication."

In the fading light you could see them for what they were, inflated white beachballs on scaffolding poles, their technical wizardry hidden from view. As darkness fell and the messages started coming, the balloons started to flash – red, yellow, green, violet and all shades in between. Driving along the B6318, Military Road, it was clear the artwork had generated another ribbon of light . . . as people took to their cars to drive along to get the best view.


Read More - http://www.journallive.co.uk/north-...g-light-artwork-61634-31751369/#ixzz25PP5apCt
 
#42 ·
Roman Camp in North Shields

Steve there was also a Hoo Haa over the proposals to cut the nice trees down there. Yellow ribbons got tied round them.

As for ancient remains, my house in Haswell Gardens had an Iron lung in the garden!

To be serious, there was quite a lot of the old hosptial left.

The wall that borders the east of Haswell Gardens is the old hospital building wall. I had a window sill incorporated into my back wall there. Next doro there was the remains of a step and a bricked-up door. Indeed when the hosue was new, there were still flecks of plaster on the wall.

I was told one house there has a victorian fire place as part of their garden wall.

Just below the top soil, they left lots of building rubble. Big chunks with paint on them.

There is one part of the street - which has gardens on it, where just below the surface is the still painted floor of one of the corridors. I am sure anyone who knew the hosptial well would be able to identify exactly where it was in the building.

Haswell Gardens is a fantastic little development. I really miss living there.
Found this article from the Newcastle Evening Chronicle from 26th August 2006 - copyright NCJMedia Ltd :

 
#43 ·
Hadrian’s Wall Trust gets cash grant to
make the most of tourism

by Tony Henderson, The Journal, February 13th 2013


A CASH boost has been given to the development of eco-tourism around Hadrian’s Wall. The £589,000 Rural Development Programme for England (RDPE) grant to the Hadrian’s Wall Trust will help projects in north and west Cumbria. It covers tourism activity incorporating nature and wildlife, walking and cycling, local produce and accommodation, all linked to the Hadrian’s Wall Country brand.

The trust, which is based in Hexham, has set up a satellite office in Maryport and a new post of project manager has been created to lead work with local businesses. Rural Affairs Minister Richard Benyon said: “Hadrian’s Wall is a great place to experience our countryside. We want to help aspiring local businesses and this grant will help them make the most of the opportunities brought to the area by thousands of visitors every year.

“Our heritage sites and countryside are a real draw for holidaymakers and sightseers. There is a big opportunity to grow the rural economy through tourism.” Linda Tuttiett, chief executive of the Hadrian’s Wall Trust said: “The 150-mile Hadrian’s Wall world heritage site is the whole of the Roman frontier zone – including the Roman coastal defences at Ravenglass, Whitehaven, Workington, Maryport and Bowness-on-Solway, and the western end of Hadrian’s Wall.”


Read More - http://www.journallive.co.uk/north-...most-of-tourism-61634-32798299/#ixzz2KlsYfyIl
 
#44 ·
£10.5m visitor centre on Hadrian's Wall to boost Tourism
by Tony Henderson, The Journal, March 20th 2013


Once Brewed park visitor centre near Hadrians Wall

A VISITOR centre to boost Northumberland National Park takes a big step forward today. The £10.5m Sill building would replace the current 1960s Once Brewed tourism information centre and youth hostel on Hadrian’s Wall. The aim of the new centre is to inspire visitors to explore the whole of the national park and its landscape, history and wildlife. It is expected to increase visitor numbers from the current 45,000 a year at Once Brewed to 120,000, generating £1.4m for the economy and creating and supporting 60 jobs.

Today, Northumberland National Park and the Youth Hostel Association will announce they have appointed award winning Newcastle-based Jane Darbyshire and David Kendall Architects to explore initial concepts for The Sill. The move is part of development work following the award of almost £400,000 a year ago by the Heritage Lottery Fund to work up ideas for the venture. This will lead to a bid for a full grant of more than £6m.

“This will be a flagship centre for the national park and will be of the landscape and inspired by the landscape,” said Sill project co-ordinator Laura Sole.


Read More - http://www.journallive.co.uk/north-...o-boost-tourism-61634-33023150/#ixzz2O4cDQjwr
 
#45 ·
Fascinating exercise for anyone that is interesting,
If you imagine the original square roman fort which would have been present at pons aelius; stone outer walls, N-S-E-W gates with intersecting centre, home to my knowledge of up to 1000 troops, being about 80x80m.

Then look on googlemaps of the site where this fort supposed to have stood, by the castle keep/ moot hall, it becomes apparent the roughly square shaped area of land of similar dimensions as to where the fort would have stood. Draw a line from the SE corner of the moot hall to the SW corner of the bridge hotel, then north to the railway forming the northern wall, and fnally back down from the NE corner of the northumberland hotel.

I myself find that although no actual real physical presence of the fort survives, but the imprint on the topography- the romans i expect would have levelled off this hillock formed by the burn up dean st and quayside to the south, remains to this day. This bit of land engineered to e a defensive spot obviously was advantaged in the medieval times and the hint remains to this day.

When this thread talks about 'old newcastle' that is what i thought it meant, however the map extends to st johns, bigg market etc. which i think dilutes what could be just the square shaped land containing the keep, pub, moot hall, hotel, black gate and maybe throw in the cathedral too.

If this specific area was landscaped to further its identity with perhaps a small visitor centre then it would create a specific node that would better present itself than the current arbitrary mass of land that is currently identified
 
#46 ·
Fascinating exercise for anyone that is interesting,
If you imagine the original square roman fort which would have been present at pons aelius; stone outer walls, N-S-E-W gates with intersecting centre, home to my knowledge of up to 1000 troops, being about 80x80m.

Then look on googlemaps of the site where this fort supposed to have stood, by the castle keep/ moot hall, it becomes apparent the roughly square shaped area of land of similar dimensions as to where the fort would have stood. Draw a line from the SE corner of the moot hall to the SW corner of the bridge hotel, then north to the railway forming the northern wall, and fnally back down from the NE corner of the northumberland hotel.

I myself find that although no actual real physical presence of the fort survives, but the imprint on the topography- the romans i expect would have levelled off this hillock formed by the burn up dean st and quayside to the south, remains to this day. This bit of land engineered to e a defensive spot obviously was advantaged in the medieval times and the hint remains to this day.

When this thread talks about 'old newcastle' that is what i thought it meant, however the map extends to st johns, bigg market etc. which i think dilutes what could be just the square shaped land containing the keep, pub, moot hall, hotel, black gate and maybe throw in the cathedral too.

If this specific area was landscaped to further its identity with perhaps a small visitor centre then it would create a specific node that would better present itself than the current arbitrary mass of land that is currently identified
One of the ‘problems’ when discussing the Roman Fort is the lack of real knowledge about what it exactly looked like due to the later construction of the Norman Castle and Keep and to a degree evidence destroyed by the Victorians during the construction of the rail viaduct. To prove the shape would mean the demolition of the Castle Keep, former Northumberland County Offices, Bridge Hotel, railway viaduct and the Moot Hall, something that isn’t going to happen any time soon. However the latest thoughts on the size of the fort are that it was somewhere in the region of 95m x 67m – as it would have followed the outline of a cohort fort it would have been roughly rectangular in shape, roughly as it still had to fit within the confines of the promontory.

The number of troops accommodated at the fort is also debatable as no barracks have been discovered on the site.

On the matter of the fort’s location is still a matter of conjecture as to whether it was part of Hadrian's Wall, perhaps controlling an access gate.

Of course the name often associated with the fort is Pons Aelius but that in real terms relates to the river crossing over which it guarded, Pons Aelius being translated as ‘Bridge of Hadrian’.

Whilst the promontory looking over the Tyne gave a good defensive position to protect the bridge it was not a site that the Roman military engineers would have immediately chosen as it did not give ready access to deploy the garrison. This was due to the steep cliffs on all but the western side of the site. Thus the ability for troops to pass in and out of the fort was very restricted and thus this idea of the conventional gates associated with a Roman fort was not one found here.

Of course “real physical presence of the fort” does survive, albeit concealed beneath the area of Castle Garth and much of it has been revealed during archaeological digs, the last being in 1996.

Not sure that the Roman army engineers would have needed to do much in the way of having ‘levelled off this hillock’. There was certainly archaeological evidence of ploughing (ardmarks) of the land in the pre-fort period (narrow rig and furrow). Unproved but the site may well have been the site of a settlement prior to the building of the fort.

On the matter of the ‘Old Newcastle Project’, perhaps you are missing the point – this is a specific project dealing only with the area of the Black Gate, Castle Keep and St Nicholas’s Cathedral Church. Worth taking a look at the projects web site @ http://www.oldnewcastle.org.uk/old-newcastle-project

You mention a ‘visitor centre’ well that is one of the functions that Black Gate will perform – this is from the above web site:

Heritage Lottery Funding has been secured to create an accessible, heritage-led education and interpretation centre in the vacant and closed Black Gate, transforming its current lifeless and substantially ignored presence into a hub of heritage activity that will be open and available to the entire community and visitors from near and far. The Black Gate will combine with medieval neighbours, the Castle Keep and St. Nicholas Cathedral to provide an outstanding and dynamic heritage asset that will tell the story of the remarkable history of the City and the ingenuity of countless generations of its inhabitants.
 
#47 ·
One of the ‘problems’ when discussing the Roman Fort is the lack of real knowledge about what it exactly looked like due to the later construction of the Norman Castle and Keep and to a degree evidence destroyed by the Victorians during the construction of the rail viaduct. To prove the shape would mean the demolition of the Castle Keep, former Northumberland County Offices, Bridge Hotel, railway viaduct and the Moot Hall, something that isn’t going to happen any time soon. However the latest thoughts on the size of the fort are that it was somewhere in the region of 95m x 67m – as it would have followed the outline of a cohort fort it would have been roughly rectangular in shape, roughly as it still had to fit within the confines of the promontory.

The number of troops accommodated at the fort is also debatable as no barracks have been discovered on the site.

On the matter of the fort’s location is still a matter of conjecture as to whether it was part of Hadrian's Wall, perhaps controlling an access gate.

Of course the name often associated with the fort is Pons Aelius but that in real terms relates to the river crossing over which it guarded, Pons Aelius being translated as ‘Bridge of Hadrian’.

Whilst the promontory looking over the Tyne gave a good defensive position to protect the bridge it was not a site that the Roman military engineers would have immediately chosen as it did not give ready access to deploy the garrison. This was due to the steep cliffs on all but the western side of the site. Thus the ability for troops to pass in and out of the fort was very restricted and thus this idea of the conventional gates associated with a Roman fort was not one found here.

Of course “real physical presence of the fort” does survive, albeit concealed beneath the area of Castle Garth and much of it has been revealed during archaeological digs, the last being in 1996.

Not sure that the Roman army engineers would have needed to do much in the way of having ‘levelled off this hillock’. There was certainly archaeological evidence of ploughing (ardmarks) of the land in the pre-fort period (narrow rig and furrow). Unproved but the site may well have been the site of a settlement prior to the building of the fort.

On the matter of the ‘Old Newcastle Project’, perhaps you are missing the point – this is a specific project dealing only with the area of the Black Gate, Castle Keep and St Nicholas’s Cathedral Church. Worth taking a look at the projects web site @ http://www.oldnewcastle.org.uk/old-newcastle-project

You mention a ‘visitor centre’ well that is one of the functions that Black Gate will perform – this is from the above web site:

Heritage Lottery Funding has been secured to create an accessible, heritage-led education and interpretation centre in the vacant and closed Black Gate, transforming its current lifeless and substantially ignored presence into a hub of heritage activity that will be open and available to the entire community and visitors from near and far. The Black Gate will combine with medieval neighbours, the Castle Keep and St. Nicholas Cathedral to provide an outstanding and dynamic heritage asset that will tell the story of the remarkable history of the City and the ingenuity of countless generations of its inhabitants.
Post #30 seems to indicate the area was wider than you state, including the lit and phil, St. Johns etc. clearly worthy of praise yes, but keeping 'old Newcastle' as specific to the probable location of the fort would be more defining.

I understand my observations are entirely conjectural. But it does seem to fit. One benefit of the Romans to us folk is that they did standardise a lot of their forts and buildings and so if indeed their was a fort, then we can infer as to its proportions and form etc. from other similar forts.

As for establishing the existence of the fort i would say it is nigh on irrefutable. Nevermind it being named in the Notitia Dignitatum, circumstantial evidence seems to co-oberate this. As hadrians wall originally terminated at pons aelius then it does seem to suggest there would have been a military presence. As the wall extended later the fort would probably not have been as important but it does seem unlikely they would have left the furthest east tyne crossing undefended. As for restricted access yes, but as many chares negotiate the steep slope- they aren't cliffs then secondary access would have been possible

I do not for a second recommend demolishing the castle etc! That would be a tad stupid, although i'm sure the victorians did try. What i think is that the area could be better defined through the landscaping, thats all. As hopefully it might! Good news for the black gate, although i think a custom built heritage visitor centre- of modest scale would be cheaper, maybe like the St. Pauls tourist information centre. Maybe not that design but the same scale.

Opening up the ground for landscaping could present an opportunity for an intensive archeological investigation of the area and maybe answer some of our questions. It is a mixed blessing that Newcastle has been continuously occupied for so long, from pre roman as you state, that evidence of past eras seem to disappear over the centuries.
 
#48 ·
Post #30 seems to indicate the area was wider than you state, including the lit and phil, St. Johns etc. clearly worthy of praise yes, but keeping 'old Newcastle' as specific to the probable location of the fort would be more defining.

I understand my observations are entirely conjectural. But it does seem to fit. One benefit of the Romans to us folk is that they did standardise a lot of their forts and buildings and so if indeed their was a fort, then we can infer as to its proportions and form etc. from other similar forts.

As for establishing the existence of the fort i would say it is nigh on irrefutable. Nevermind it being named in the Notitia Dignitatum, circumstantial evidence seems to co-oberate this. As hadrians wall originally terminated at pons aelius then it does seem to suggest there would have been a military presence. As the wall extended later the fort would probably not have been as important but it does seem unlikely they would have left the furthest east tyne crossing undefended. As for restricted access yes, but as many chares negotiate the steep slope- they aren't cliffs then secondary access would have been possible

I do not for a second recommend demolishing the castle etc! That would be a tad stupid, although i'm sure the victorians did try. What i think is that the area could be better defined through the landscaping, thats all. As hopefully it might! Good news for the black gate, although i think a custom built heritage visitor centre- of modest scale would be cheaper, maybe like the St. Pauls tourist information centre. Maybe not that design but the same scale.

Opening up the ground for landscaping could present an opportunity for an intensive archeological investigation of the area and maybe answer some of our questions. It is a mixed blessing that Newcastle has been continuously occupied for so long, from pre roman as you state, that evidence of past eras seem to disappear over the centuries.
I think the pamphlet at #30 pre-dates the Old Newcastle Project as such and thus the confusion, the Project being a spin off as it were.

Indeed the standardisation of Roman forts does allow for various 'educated guesses' to be made but I'm sure that in the case of Pons Aelius the shape of the available land meant that some restrictions in size of buildings and slight alignments had to be changed from the 'norm'.

"As for establishing the existence of the fort I would say it is nigh on irrefutable." - I don't think anyone doubts the existence of the Roman fort, various digs over the years have proved this, so not sure as to the meaning of your comment?

Yes if the Victorians had been permitted they would have demolished the Castle Keep so that they could place their railway viaduct slightly to the south of its present position. (an American tourist was overheard to say, "why did they build the Castle Keep so close to the railway viaduct?". Advances in technology will hopefully mean that at some stage in the future, radar type ground penetration devices may be able to see under standing buildings and questions answered, but not in my life time.

What areas are you suggesting for landscaping?
 
#49 ·
I think the pamphlet at #30 pre-dates the Old Newcastle Project as such and thus the confusion, the Project being a spin off as it were.

Indeed the standardisation of Roman forts does allow for various 'educated guesses' to be made but I'm sure that in the case of Pons Aelius the shape of the available land meant that some restrictions in size of buildings and slight alignments had to be changed from the 'norm'.

"As for establishing the existence of the fort I would say it is nigh on irrefutable." - I don't think anyone doubts the existence of the Roman fort, various digs over the years have proved this, so not sure as to the meaning of your comment?

Yes if the Victorians had been permitted they would have demolished the Castle Keep so that they could place their railway viaduct slightly to the south of its present position. (an American tourist was overheard to say, "why did they build the Castle Keep so close to the railway viaduct?". Advances in technology will hopefully mean that at some stage in the future, radar type ground penetration devices may be able to see under standing buildings and questions answered, but not in my life time.

What areas are you suggesting for landscaping?
Sorry, i thought you implied the fort was not proven to be in existence, when in fact you were just referring to not having its exact location and dimensions pinned down. Apologies!

I don't think it will be too long before they 'radar' or use advanced underground devices. In fact, maybe the Old Newcastle project should try to link with the local universities and actually commision another major archeological operation. Any new evidence uncovered may promote the tourist and educational aspect of the new exhibition facilities- creating a buzz and publicity to boost its openings.

As for landscaping, it is my hope they will try to define the area and give it a general tidy-up. It seems currently to be a neglected back space, with signs dotted around, arbitrary car parking, bins, poorly maintained surfaces, railings etc.
What could work as a concept would be to reinforce the thresholds to the site by using the (perhaps) NSEW orientation of the original fort openings;
NORTH; the black gate being a principle threshold with the (scrap my old idea for visitor centre) learning, exhibition centre based here;
WEST; the current open side between the bridge hotel and keep, with a better defined surface treatment, some planting.
SOUTH, the castle steps from quayside
EAST; i've yet to work that one out!!

To further milk the fort metaphor, it would be great to allow a walk around the 'cliff' top around the moot hall, perhaps a temporary raised accessible platform to give people a sense of what the fort would have been like to walk around its perimeter walls?
There does seem an urban infill gap between the top of the castle steps and the bridge hotel, but looking again at it to put in a new building here would obscure and diminish the keeps impact on the tyne gorge vista so again, a little undecided!

All in all, basically i think the old newcastle project would best showcase and boost its endeavour in looking again at the history of the site through investigative archeology, but also to redefine this mini area of the city centre. To do with its own unique expression, throughout some of its history the castle keep, walls and associated castle complex buildings would have been a defined area seperate from the sprawl of the medieval town. Why not subtlety revisit this? But instead of it being for the medieval elite, it is for educational and touristic purposes
 
#50 ·
I was wondering if you guys cared to speculate or add any info or anything that has previously tried to address the question of 'What was the original course of Hadrians Wall through areas of Newcastle'?



This image shows the following-


  • Medieval walled town in yellow.
  • Castle Garth in Yellow
  • Possible fort location and bridge in Red.
  • Red dots indicate established location of wall
  • Purple dots indicate speculated and investigated location of wall, to no avail.

Dots from left to right

- Newcastle Arts Centre milecastle 4
- Remains by Lit and Phil. Not 100% on this, but seem to remember seeing a plaque or remains of the wall at this location
- Trial at car park adjacent to Dean Street with no evidence found
- Speculative location adjacent to Sallyport Tower
- Trial pit near Gibson Street found remains
- Remains found under recently built hotel
- 1920s archeological dig found evidence around ouseburn but not at far right location as speculated



This above image is my stab at the route. Entirely speculative of course.
There seems concrete evidence of HW route over westgate road, but disappears once within the centre.

Now i know that the evidence has been wiped from the city centre due to 2000 years adaptive settlement, but if a bronze age house and ridge and furrow field evidence can be found in the city centre then a whacking great wall but have some evidence we havent found!

So im willing to guess that like Westgate road, HW route may have been continued by the street patterns of the town.

Denton Chare via cathedral (which may have been established on HW foundations, to low bridge follow a roman like straight line through the centre. It is speculated that HW route bends down further south, to meet the fort, however the fort required space for troops to vacate, so my logic is that there should be ample space between the wall and the ridge top of the tyne gorge to allow soldiers to alight the fort.

From here Im guessing the route may have been incorporated for the town wall- as the town wall unusually dips down at pandon before rising to Sallyport tower- historically the weakest spot of the town wall, where people would 'sally forth' to this part in defense. So such a weak spot cannot have been missed from the design of the wall, so im stabbing a guess that this part of the wall might have taken advantage of HW.

From there its a case of joining the dots of established finds until Byker, where the high street and fossway seems romanlike straight to Wallsend fort.

Any thoughts on this guys would be greatly appreciated. Newcastle in Hadrians wall has a globally significant find within our city. And i personally dont think we highlight it enough. Tracing a better idea of the route would go a long way to helping Newcastle in its global and regional identity
 
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