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Old September 11th, 2019, 02:49 AM   #3021
aclifford
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterDae View Post
Reconstructing an eclectic mix of random add ons would have been pointless. They were later additions and therefore not relevant to the constitution of the original building. I would have favoured leaving that facade missing and having an open courtyard facing the river. Or just continuing the baroque facade around to the river side.
Were the buildings facing the spree not the original origins of the palace?

I always assumed they were and the rest of the palace was added on gradually over the years. This made those buildings facinating to me from both a historical and architectural perspective and incredibly important in the story of the palace.

If they were added later then having nothing there and instead having the courtyard open to the river is a fantastic idea -would look stunning.
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Old September 11th, 2019, 03:27 PM   #3022
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No, the buildings along the Spree were built before the Baroque facades. I mean, who would enlarge a Baroque palace by randomly throwing Renaissance and Gothic parts around it?
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Old September 11th, 2019, 04:54 PM   #3023
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that's what he said
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Old September 11th, 2019, 05:39 PM   #3024
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Originally Posted by TM_Germany View Post
that's what he said
Yep, sorry for basically repeating what he said, I read his post quickly and it sounded in that moment like he was 50-50 on the matter, so I wrote a quick correction of the other user's post...
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Old September 11th, 2019, 06:08 PM   #3025
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The birthplace of the Western civilization was Athens, which remainded turkish for 500 years. People ignore such things...
But why would you even take the conversation in such direction? If you're so much into the fall of Constantinople first educate yourself on the topics: Massacre of the Latins (April 1182), and afterwards the 4th Crusade (or basically what the Latins did to the Greeks years later in April 1204, to avenge the previous event).

It was an Orthodox versus Catholic war that ended Constantinople - not the Turks, when the Turks came what they found was an already ruined city.

So don't even think of having the "us - innocent, them - awful" conversation with me. I've lived and seen far more than that. They may not be innocent at all, but we might be just as awful as them, we just try to hide ourselves behind our hypocrisy.


Now please back to the Baroque Palace.
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Old September 12th, 2019, 01:51 AM   #3026
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What is that light projection onto the ugly east side in the webcam about?
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Old September 13th, 2019, 02:03 PM   #3027
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I recently had the chance to talk to a person directly involved in the reconstruction of the Stadtschloss. So i took the chance and asked him about the reasons for the horrible Chipperfield side. He gave me a very honest answer. First reason was according to him money, and the second a possible fight over what version of the former Spree side should had been rebuild to begin with. That is directly connected with the financial reason, because the Spree side was insanely rich in facade decorations. I hope I got my point across.
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Old September 14th, 2019, 09:05 PM   #3028
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No, the buildings along the Spree were built before the Baroque facades. I mean, who would enlarge a Baroque palace by randomly throwing Renaissance and Gothic parts around it?
Actually, the oldest surviving building in the complex was the Apothecary, attached to the northeast corner of the building. No reconstruction of that one has been attempted.
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Old September 14th, 2019, 09:23 PM   #3029
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Originally Posted by Grimace View Post
Replaced with what, you may ask?

Anybody can see that one quarter of the building is a completely different style than the rest of it. That is obvious to even your average Joe Blogs. Let's see which part of the building will be photographed most which will rest my argument. I am willing to bet 99% of people will be taking photos of the reconstructed parts and not of the modernist generic side. And that is the entire point to a facade, not only to keep the roof from falling in.

Taking that into account, I'm betting future generations will remove the ugly Spree side and replace it with something decent. Something that aesthetically fits in the context. Something that is worthwhile looking from the a boat on the river.

I'm very grateful they reconstructed the palace and I'm willing to accept the modernist facade but only because I have faith it will be replaced eventually.
And the interior too. The "ugly facade" is also found in the separating walls between courtyards. AND none of the rooms and halls are being reconstructed, although we have excellent color photos of them all. We should have prayed for a Russian/Soviet company to rebuild it--as they did Catherine's Hermitage and the Peterhof in Saint Petersburg: they reconsdtruced everything according to the photos. The palace had been entirely gutted by fire and bombardment, with only a few exterior walls standing.

By the way, without the modernist eastern facade, and a "Humboldt Forum" homage to Eurabia, this building would have never been reconstructed. Too many closeted leftist there in Berlin, combined with the postmodernist Dada folks to allow that. So, you give in on some, you get back some
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Old September 14th, 2019, 09:35 PM   #3030
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Originally Posted by DiogoBaptista View Post
Humboldt Forum opening postponed to 2020.


Uh, what a nice Holiday Inn looks for the interior of a historical building. Any vending machines around to complete the picture?
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Old September 14th, 2019, 09:51 PM   #3031
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Originally Posted by taboe View Post
Couldn't disagree more!

It looks like it was made out of cardboard or plastic.

It's very incomprehensible that Berlin, of all places, is opting for such a Disney-approach: faking old buildings without adding anything of architectural value.

It's an absolute disgrace that they tore down the Palace of the Republic to replace it with this monstrosity. What's next? Tearing down the TV-tower?

Berlin is very rapidly becoming just another European capital, instead of the unique one it used to be (and still is, partly). It makes my heart bleed.
Wow, what a collection of old Communist sympathizers (giving this their thumbs up).... Missing the "Palace of the Republic"? Really, comrades?? The socialist likes the whole world destroyed and memories wiped, so that they can recreate it in their own image of "socialist realism". Sorry pals, your time ran out in 1991. deal with it
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Old September 15th, 2019, 11:27 AM   #3032
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I was in Berlin for the last few days and all I could think of is how much better it would look if we could revert all the communist buildings and go back to the imperial magnificence it had before. I would forgive Alexanderplatz as a symbol, but so many buildings have disappeared.

Seeing the Schloss in person, I don't get why people hate its design so much. The modern facade blends perfectly with the environment on the opposite side of the Spree.

And the baroque facade completes a gap and heals a wound in the historical side of the city. I like the project more now that I've seen it in person than before -and I was always a big supporter.
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Old September 15th, 2019, 05:59 PM   #3033
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Back to topic and stop all the communists shits comments, thanks.
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Old September 16th, 2019, 05:05 AM   #3034
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Quote:
Originally Posted by germantower View Post
I recently had the chance to talk to a person directly involved in the reconstruction of the Stadtschloss. So i took the chance and asked him about the reasons for the horrible Chipperfield side. He gave me a very honest answer. First reason was according to him money, and the second a possible fight over what version of the former Spree side should had been rebuild to begin with. That is directly connected with the financial reason, because the Spree side was insanely rich in facade decorations. I hope I got my point across.
The person you talked to probably answered you to the best of their knowledge, but I hope it's alright when I correct a few things.

1) The old eastern facade, mostly consisting of renaissance buildings, was never richly decorated, in fact, it was rather simple and austere. It was however very asymmetric and compartmentalized.



2) The reason why this facade was not reconstructed was not because of money, but because it were only the three baroque facades of Andreas Schlüter and Eosander von Göthe that were deemed historically and artistically important, and important to the surrounding cityscape and buildings (Cathedral, Neuer Marstall, Bauakademie, Altes Museum, Zeughaus...), which were back then built to directly correspond with those three baroque facades.
Wilhelm von Boddien, which was the initiator of the whole reconstruction project, successfully argued that the baroque cubature and facade composition were absolutely necessary to restore the historical heart of Berlin. He would have also lliked to reconstruct the renaissance facade, but modernists were not convinced a reconstruction was necessary is this case. Simply because there was no corresponding buildings beyond the Spree river anymore, only the Marx-Engels-Forum, a park from GDR times. So they demanded the 4th facade to be modernist.

3) They decided on this particular facade design, because that design was part of the entire design for the City Palace/Humboldt Forum with which Franco Stella won the international architecture competition.
Stella, who will not agree with you that his facade design is "horrible", simply likes very monumental, very austere and inspired by 30s and 40s architecture like Rome's EUR:



Can you see the close relation?
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Old September 16th, 2019, 01:01 PM   #3035
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I was surprised that the Italian architect's explanation was simply: "on this side, there will be bars and restaurants and terraces for the enjoyment of the citizen." I personally don't dislike it because before, there were a series of buildings with no uniformity attached. If I had made a historical nod to the Palace of the Soviet Republic, in the form of yellow crystals ... etc.
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Old September 19th, 2019, 02:20 PM   #3036
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Wasn't this the same institution that prosecuted our greatest intellectuals, such like Leonardo da Vinci (IQ of 220, not ever repeated in human history)?
Sorry, what did you mean by prosecution? Commissioning some of his best paintings (like The Last Supper in Milan)?
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Old September 19th, 2019, 05:02 PM   #3037
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Uh, what a nice Holiday Inn looks for the interior of a historical building. Any vending machines around to complete the picture?


That totally does look like a Holiday Inn. I've actually seen Holiday Inns that look nicer.
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Old September 21st, 2019, 11:04 PM   #3038
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Is any of the interiors going to be reconstructed?
None
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Old September 21st, 2019, 11:22 PM   #3039
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They were stopped by the Spanish in Vienna, actually. For more than 150 years Hungary was part of the Turkish Empire. The birthplace of the Western civilization was Athens, which remainded turkish for 500 years. People ignore such things...
Anyways, I'm happy for the cross just because the kuppel was designed with it, and the overall shape makes more sense in an architectural way with it. But if it were a star or anything else, I guess noone would notice the difference The same for the church in the back (I had no idea there was one), really, noone cares. I don't believe someone would think "let's not do it for political correctness". In fact, most berliners find the german flag way more shocking than the cross
ARCHITECTURE, architecture---PLEASE. A tiny bit of politics here or there is okay, but please don't turn this forum into some shouting match between the politically charged opinions. LETS DO ARCHITECTURE and urban/building debate
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Old September 23rd, 2019, 05:24 PM   #3040
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Uh, what a nice Holiday Inn looks for the interior of a historical building. Any vending machines around to complete the picture?
What's extra sad about this is that forget that it's in a baroque palace, forget about anything historical. Say this whole project inside and out was purely modern. Even then, would you want the interior of a major new museum in the center of a world capital city to look similar to a Holiday Inn??
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baroque fassade, berlin, construction field, heart of the city, humboldt lab dahlem, lustgarten, museum island, prussia, reconstruction, stadtschloss, stella

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