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Old July 10th, 2019, 05:21 PM   #4321
da_scotty
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There is a lot of empty office-m2 available, while the housing market is locked and see's a huge defficit in starter/middle income housing.
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Old July 10th, 2019, 05:25 PM   #4322
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There's plenty of offices in those locations already, adding housing can only improve those sites. It will create more life outside office hours and as an added bonus, it means not everyone will be traveling in the same direction every rush hour.

Having all the offices in one location and all the housing in another is mid-20th century city planning. It's outdated.
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Old July 10th, 2019, 05:26 PM   #4323
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The important thing in Sloterdijk is they don't eat up the space reserved for the 4 tracks expansion. A time will come in which it will be needed.

What's shown in the drawing is ok.
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Old July 10th, 2019, 05:55 PM   #4324
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slagathor View Post
There's plenty of offices in those locations already, adding housing can only improve those sites. It will create more life outside office hours and as an added bonus, it means not everyone will be traveling in the same direction every rush hour.

Having all the offices in one location and all the housing in another is mid-20th century city planning. It's outdated.
My point is that it is easier to have a centrally located office district where people from many places travel to by public transportation, instead of the other way around. Although living close to a major train station makes it easier to change jobs and still use trains/trams.

I read that the number of young-ish households where the family lives in a place nowhere near (=no cycling door-to-door) the workplace of either adult is rising fast. Since people change jobs more often, it kinda makes sense to go that route, especially if both adults have office or industry jobs with fixed locations.
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Old July 10th, 2019, 08:01 PM   #4325
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Well we need both. Amsterdam has a shortage of modern office space. Also we already have enough monofunctional areas.
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Old July 10th, 2019, 09:06 PM   #4326
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Well we need both. Amsterdam has a shortage of modern office space. Also we already have enough monofunctional areas.
So Amsterdam Noord must get more offices and the Zuidas more housing.

I wonder if they will resurrect that massive project to put the railway and station* underground atthe Zuidas. I am aware the highway A10 is going to be put on a tunnel.
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Old July 11th, 2019, 10:51 PM   #4327
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That project is called Zuidasdok, and is currently in the preparation phase.

The idea is to put the A10 in a tunnel, and to expand Amsterdam Zuid to 6 tracks. The station will remain above ground, as it's seen as a positive thing for its surroundings. International trains (ICE, Thalys, Eurostar) will move to Amsterdam Zuid in order to free up space at Amsterdam Centraal and allow for that station to be remodeled (platforms widened, track layout altered.)

However, the engineering companies involved in the A10 overhaul have recently announced they are to abandon the project, so this is likely to throw a spanner in the works.
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Old July 11th, 2019, 10:56 PM   #4328
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and to expand Amsterdam Zuid to 6 tracks
Why 6 and not 8 though?
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Old July 12th, 2019, 05:56 AM   #4329
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Because that would require vision.
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Old July 12th, 2019, 07:08 PM   #4330
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Quote:
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Why 6 and not 8 though?
Why 8 and not 10 though?


The government, NS and ProRail have had long talks about the future of rail transport in the Netherlands. Timetables have been modeled for decades to come, anticipating an increase in train traffic, ridership and the move of international trains to Zuid.

Very few trains will start or end at Amsterdam Zuid, most of them continue elsewhere and won't need that much time in a platform.


Based on all that, it looks like the outcome is that 6 tracks should be sufficient.
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Old July 12th, 2019, 07:23 PM   #4331
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Well, 8 because 4 tracks are coming in and it's good practice to have 2 station tracks for each running track.
3 in each direction means 1 line can carry more trains than the other.

Reminds me of something...
Last time they made a 6-tracked station on a 4 tracks line it proved to be a little short, didn't it?
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Old July 12th, 2019, 08:08 PM   #4332
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Please tell, is moving the main and international connections to Amsterdam Zuid a good idea?
To make it clear, I dont know local cicumstances/conditions.
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Old July 13th, 2019, 04:55 AM   #4333
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From Schiphol it's shorter to reach. There's now a metro line from Zuid to Central and beyond, also serving destinations central in the city between. So it frees up track space on the western rail ring and at Central. Zuid is right in the CBD, so it makes sense for business people. For tourists the hotels are spread out over the city anyway, most hotels being near the metro routes which have a connection at Zuid. But the point is that Central isn't actually that Central for most Amsterdam destinations nowadays (the reason why everything was sent to Central in the first place), and they want to spread out traffic from different directions over different stations like in other cities (e.g. Paris or London). They're developing a hub and spoke system.

Moving the HSR to Zuid in my opinion isn't necessarily worse or better from a traveller's perspective, just different. It is better for the city transport system as a whole though, as it allows for more frequency and capacity.
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Old July 13th, 2019, 07:47 AM   #4334
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilhem275 View Post
Well, 8 because 4 tracks are coming in and it's good practice to have 2 station tracks for each running track.
3 in each direction means 1 line can carry more trains than the other.

Reminds me of something...
Last time they made a 6-tracked station on a 4 tracks line it proved to be a little short, didn't it?
If talking about Schiphol: it works just as it should because of not having terminating trains to wait at Schiphol and because of short dwell times (sprinters performing better than the Palembang Light Rail Transit ). Halve both numbers and it's a nightmare, I recall my own city where a lack of platform tracks causes waiting lines and disruptions on one side of the station to always spread to the other. Only problem is that with 6 tracks on a 4-tracked line there's only room for continuous services (Schiphol*, Eindhoven**), or terminating services from just one direction (Breda**) in a normal situation. In case of emergency they'll still use other tracks, imho that should remain possible.


*intercity trains from Venlo/Nijmegen continue to a remote place beyond the tunnel at Schiphol, near Hoofddorp station.
** the IC direct Breda and fast IC Den Haag-Eindhoven do continue beyond the train station but their position is on tracks just beyond the station. The IC Direct Brussels turns directions at Breda whereas the peak hour IC to Dordrecht terminates in Breda.
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Old July 13th, 2019, 12:35 PM   #4335
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I think the plan for the two additional tracks is that they will be used to handle the international trains which start and terminate at Zuid. The regular services through Amsterdam Zuid, none of which terminate there, then have 4 platforms at their disposal.

With Thalys, Eurostar, IC Brussels, IC Berlin and ICE International all starting/ending there, the platforms will see plenty of occupation as these trains have to be checked (turfing everyone off who's fallen asleep) or prepared (brought from the depot, then awaiting their path).

Schiphol Airport has a somewhat similar set-up: trains which start or end at Schiphol(/Hoofddorp) will generally use platforms 3 and 4, while services which come from elsewhere use 1-2 or 5-6.
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Old July 13th, 2019, 01:31 PM   #4336
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With the new subway line, Amsterdam Zuid location is almost as good as Centraal for tourists and better than Centraal for business traffic.
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Old July 14th, 2019, 07:23 PM   #4337
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I get the theory. The practice is still an imbalance of capacity. A 2-for-1 layout is considered the standard today in high ridership stations, because it allows the following train to enter while the first one is still stopped or is leaving.
There are places where they would pray for doubled platforms and have to squeeze capacity of out signalling like crazy...
And here they are rebuilding a station basically from scratch and miss on purpouse a platform, and to which extent? Sparing a one-time spending which is ridiculous compared to the cost of the whole operation and the scope and duration of the new main station of Amsterdam.

What are they sparing by cutting a platform, like a 0,004% of the whole budget?
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Marchionne means never having to say you're sorry.

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Old July 15th, 2019, 01:52 AM   #4338
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The "new" Hoekse Lijn now converted to Rotterdam Metro's standards, but still allowing freight trains to reach a siding in Vlaardingen.

They applied the same system used on Kassel's tram, with an offset track along metro platforms since mainline trains are wider than metros.




(German overengineering at its finest )


Also interesting that the freight tracks passes through a track fed with third rail (around 10:45 in the video), with some anti-walking devices to avoid workers reaching the live rail.

I hope they'll sort out something soon to use the old Hoekse Lijn to double the main line between Schiedam and Rotterdam CS.
With a single extra flyover they'd get a nice bump of capacity on a congested line
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I've sold monorails to Brockway, Ogdenville, and North Haverbrooke, and by gum, it put them on the map!
Well, sir, there's nothing on earth like a genuine, bona fide, electrified, six-car monorail!

Marchionne means never having to say you're sorry.

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Last edited by Wilhem275; July 15th, 2019 at 01:59 AM.
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