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Old June 20th, 2012, 11:08 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goschio View Post
IMO its way too early for Mars settlement. With our current technological standard, the costs of mars settlement are in no relation to the potential benefits.
With that attitude, going to the Moon was way too early in the 1960s as well. Yet people did it and boasted a boom in space science that lasts until today. It's time for a 21st century event allowing such a boom.

Quote:
Originally Posted by goschio View Post
You know you can't return back to Earth? Colonists will most probably end up killing each other after a year or so.
Once they've been able to set up a fully self-sustaining, working colony, they'll be able to deploy a rocket for going back to Earth.
But they choose freely to go to Mars.
Nowadays you're living in Australia. The first European settlers were going there with a one-way ticket, no idea what is waiting for them. We definitely know what's waiting for us on Mars, so the risks can be calculated and they're low enough to try settling there. People do it by choice. Now imagine Australia today without any people living there. What a waste! Same goes for Mars. We can turn it into a paradise of our own, only limited by our imagination. Its foolish to assume we could survive as mankind if we don't spread throughout the Universe.

We have to secure our very own survival and spread the risk of getting exterminated by a single event (volcanic eruptions, asteroids, whatever).

People spent over a year in the Mars-500 experiment. Of course they knew they could go back home at any time. But they had a different expectation here. People going to Mars know they won't come back that soon.

And still: They could easily come back after a few years on Mars.
But why should they? They decided to settle on Mars, so they'll just do it.


Just like people settled empty, barren, lifeless deserts all around the world.
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Old June 20th, 2012, 11:16 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiboko View Post
Why is profit a bad thing? If profit is the only argument which gets the exploration of space ongoing, then we should use it. Politics are too weak, because these politicians depend on volatile votes and short term thinking.
Absolutely. While I myself am active in politics to a certain extent, visions for progress and innovative enterprises are something you have to look for with a magnifying lens between politicians. They aren't free to go ahead with their visions.

And there private entrepeneurs and ventures have to fill the gap and make visions a reality, to proceed for and with mankind.
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Old June 20th, 2012, 11:27 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patrykus View Post
All in all I'm a supporter of the idea. I'm just not yet convinced it's not an hoax but with the schedule they presented I believe we will find out very soon. In 2013 training program is suppose to start so we will know then if there is anything going on with the project. And I think I will be fully convinced already after four years in 2016 if they really send first cargo to the red planet which will be first really challenging stage showing both that they are getting serious money for the project and that partner companies (like spacex) are working on this as well.

Till then I stay tuned.
Of course it's not a hoax. As I said, I'm partly behind this and our team's very carefully examining all the technical, ethical and financial means, risks and possibilities for this project, with loads of general experts, entrepeneurs, scientists and a broad general public.

We're highly convinced our plan will work out if, and only if, the public supports us and helps us getting things going.

We need to secure more sponsors and private companies joining the venture.

When we're going ahead with the selection of Mars Colonists in 2013, the influx will definitely increase here. We have some great media experts aboard and are very familiar with the way PR would work out for us.

Please feel free to offer your (organizational, financial, technical, etc.) support here:
[email protected]


Btw, I didn't even publish Mars One at my blog so far, as I think my time's too limited right now to pay the project the tribute it deserves.

Organizational work and a lot of side shows are really time consuming.
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Old June 20th, 2012, 11:29 AM   #44
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Btw, you can also find us at:

Facebook - Mars One

YouTube - Mars One - Human Settlement of Mars

Twitter - MarsOneProject

LinkedIn - Mars One
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Old June 20th, 2012, 11:42 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiboko View Post
Why is profit a bad thing? If profit is the only argument which gets the exploration of space ongoing, then we should use it. Politics are too weak, because these politicians depend on volatile votes and short term thinking.
I think it goes the other way around.

Right now, profit is the reason why space exploration has been going on at much slower speeds for a few decades because something that is not considered immediately profitable is deemed undoable. Whereas during the cold war profit was secondary behind symbolical prestige and military gains.

Yet mankind's highest achievements rarely came out of a system designed to turn out profits. Whether these achievements be scientifical (from Ibn Kaldun to quantum physics and Max Weber), cultural (in arts, music...), medical or technological (first man on the moon).
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Old June 20th, 2012, 12:30 PM   #46
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Government spendings sure are necessary to keep research in space going.

But space agencies are facing budget cuts everywhere, except for new ambitions seen in China, India, Brazil and other developing countries. But they still have to catch up a lot and aren't able to make a manned Mars possible in the next years. That's because of the way they're doing things (without really involving real competition and private company's ambitions).

And even if they'll do it some day - it'll be the same old lame nationalistic stuff again.

Humanity needs to cooperate in space. The way many national agencies are operating nowadays that doesn't work out. Though things are improving, the private sector (which means: ALL OF US, no friggin' politics or states) is the one to push things forward. To make space a peaceful place, not another nationalist and political battlefield. To care for human progress.
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Old June 20th, 2012, 04:10 PM   #47
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Our Roadmap visualized:

2011
Throughout 2011, Mars One worked on the Mars mission in secret. After the mission design was made, Mars One contacted suppliers for the required components. All potential suppliers were enthused by an apolitical, commercial, manned mission to Mars and confirmed their ability to produce the parts when needed.



2013
This will be the year in which our astronaut selections begin! Who will be the first four humans on Mars and who are to follow every two years after ? Everyone and anyone who feels they are up to the challenge can apply for these positions. There will be a total of 40 astronauts.

Mars One will build a replica of the Mars settlement on an Earth desert to help the astronauts prepare and train, and for a realistic environment in which to test the equipment. The astronaut selection and the preparations in the simulated Mars base will be broadcast on television and online for the public to view.



2014
This will be the year in which preparations for the supplies mission – due to launch in 2016 – are set in motion, as will production of the first Mars communication satellite. (Photo: Surrey Satellite Technology)



2016
The supply mission will be launched for Mars in January 2016. It will land on the Red Planet in October 2016 with its cargo of 2500 kilograms of food or other supplies. It will land close to where the outpost is expected to be.



2018
In 2018 a robotic exploration vehicle will land on Mars to join the supply Lander. While the general location of the outpost will be known, the rover's task is to find the best spot in that area. You will be able to join it on its mission thanks to the live video being streamed back to Earth.



2021
2021 sees all the parts and features of the settlement reaching their destination. Two living units, two life support units, a second supplies unit and another rover in total. The two rovers take all components to the settlement location and prepare for the arrival of the astronauts.



2022
All water, oxygen and atmosphere production will be ready by early 2022, which is when the Earth crew gets a go-ahead for the launch of team one. Each component of the Mars transit vehicle is launched into a low orbit, and linked together. September 14, 2022 goes down in history as the first four astronauts are launched on their journey after last checks. Every part of this adventure will be available to watch on our website, 24/7.



2023
Our astronauts land in 2023 – the first people to ever set foot on Mars! They are picked up by the rovers, and link the other landers together. They set up the remaining solar panels, and begin their epic exploration.

They will also research Mars’ history and any possible past life it hosted, as well as looking into present matters of interest, like how do Earth plants behave on Mars?



2025
June of 2025 is when the second group lands. They are received by their predecessors, who have completed the construction of their living habitats in which both groups take up residence. The second group have also brought new hardware with them, opening up even more possibilities. An example could be a bigger Rover, which enables them to discover even more of their new home planet.




All this can be found here: http://mars-one.com/en/mission/summary-of-the-plan
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Old June 20th, 2012, 06:08 PM   #48
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Constructing real structures on Mars would be the big one, having a greenhouse, labs, large solar fields, medical facilities, storage facilities ect would be the key to the projects long term survival.
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Old June 20th, 2012, 06:33 PM   #49
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Will there be a law in this new settlement? And who defines this law? A country from earth or the company?
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Old June 20th, 2012, 06:48 PM   #50
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question:
how abundant is water in Mars?

They mentioned there is water in Mars, so there will also be oxygen. Then is it safe to assume that there is also CO2?
How easy is it to support life in Mars?

I mean, if all the ingredients of life is already available, why not turn the planet into a vegetation first before humans go there. Disperse lots of seed in the in planet's surface, send bacterias to sustain CO2 supply for vegetation.
(just a very wild suggestion.... sorry if I don't make any sense)
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Old June 20th, 2012, 06:54 PM   #51
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Quote:
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Will there be a law in this new settlement? And who defines this law? A country from earth or the company?
What we can say now is, that it'll primarily follow the UN Charta as well as the agreements made at the UN Committee on the Peaceful Uses of Outer Space (this includes the Outer Space Treaty of course).
There will also be mission agreements that have to be made and signed beforehand. This will be developed during the process, when the actual legal questions are coming up.

Mars won't be claimed by any state and thus won't follow any national law in the prospect.
That wouldn't be accepted by the United Nations. Just as claiming Antarctica to belong to one nation wouldn't be accepted.
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Old June 20th, 2012, 06:58 PM   #52
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great idea!
but I have a few questions:
-how dragons will be joined on the planet? They are not able to land next to one another. What is needed is some lift, or the wheels
-deadlines are very tight. Do whatever is already happening? Mission supplies already in 2016?
-Are there any proposed construction? I mean, excavators, bulldozers, cranes?
-Is it intended any other than the dragon lander?
-An exploration vehicle in 2018? how it lands? by the dragoon?
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Old June 20th, 2012, 07:07 PM   #53
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Wino: You're not suggesting something out of the blue. Your concept is what is called Terraforming. There's a broad field of literature about it, Wiki gives quite some apt overview of how it'd be done on Mars: Terraforming of Mars

But this would take hundreds of years with current technology. We shouldn't wait that long to send humans to Mars and try to establish research stations there in the next decades. When on the planet, it might be a lot easier to find out how we could transform the planet into some Earth-like paradise, if we wish to do so.

Water on Mars isn't as commonplace as on Earth of course - and it's all frozen.
But it's quite abundant at the polar caps and in the soil of Mars. It can be extracted and heated.

There also is an extensive informative article on Wiki about this topic: Water on Mars


The FAQ bit again:

Will the astronauts have enough water?

On Mars, water can be extracted from the soil. The Rover will select the location for the settlement primarily based on the water content in the soil. We expect this to be at a latitude of between 40 and 45 degrees North.
Water extraction will be performed by the life support units. The Rover will deposit soil into a water extractor in the life support units. The water extractor will heat the soil until the water evaporates. The evaporated water will be condensed and stored, the dry soil expelled, and the process repeated to extract more water.

About 1500 liters of reserve water will be stored in each Life Support Unit, which will be consumed primarily at night, and during periods of protracted low power availability, for example during dust storms.
Since Mars has gravity, water can be used in the same way as on Earth. There will be regular showers, toilets and a washing machine. Each astronaut will be able to use about 50 liters of water per day. The water will be recycled, which takes much less energy than extracting it from the Martian soil. Only water that can not be recycled will be replaced by water extracted from the soil.


http://mars-one.com/en/faq-en/20-faq...ood-and-oxygen
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Old June 20th, 2012, 07:24 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kicaj View Post
great idea!
but I have a few questions:
-how dragons will be joined on the planet? They are not able to land next to one another. What is needed is some lift, or the wheels
The Dragons will be flexible regarding their location and can be moved on the ground. An apt solution for the Martian surface will be worked out in the process.

Quote:
-deadlines are very tight. Do whatever is already happening? Mission supplies already in 2016?
What's happening now is the search for additional funding (sponsors/investors), more researchers and suppliers. With the astronaut selection beginning in 2013 the project will raise a lot of interest. Also with Curiosity landing on Mars this August there will be quite some public attention for the topic of going to Mars. The supply mission is almost secured, from the mere proposed financial side of the issue. It's the least expensive bit of the mission, that's why it'll go up first.

Quote:
-Are there any proposed construction? I mean, excavators, bulldozers, cranes?
For the first team, that isn't needed. But the equipment for creating bricks out of Martian material will be available on Mars. Heavy construction machines like "bulldozers" aren't needed for this. So the colony can be extended easily.

As you can see depicted in this rendering, the construction can and will be done by the astronauts:


Quote:
-Is it intended any other than the dragon lander?
Not right now. It's important to have certain standards and a safe, well-tested and high quality lander for the mission start. Perhaps later on, other landers than those of SpaceX will be used.

But Mars One also cooperates with Thales Alenia Space that features experience in space modules. They're also contributing to the overall shaping of the modules.

Quote:
-An exploration vehicle in 2018? how it lands? by the dragoon?
For now, only SpaceX technology is intended to be used to land the different sets of the mission on Mars. If one comes up with even more efficient and reliable technology, it may be considered to be used.
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Old June 20th, 2012, 07:35 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eklips View Post
I think it goes the other way around.

Right now, profit is the reason why space exploration has been going on at much slower speeds for a few decades because something that is not considered immediately profitable is deemed undoable. Whereas during the cold war profit was secondary behind symbolical prestige and military gains.

Yet mankind's highest achievements rarely came out of a system designed to turn out profits. Whether these achievements be scientifical (from Ibn Kaldun to quantum physics and Max Weber), cultural (in arts, music...), medical or technological (first man on the moon).
I think it's about commitment rather than motiv.
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Old June 20th, 2012, 07:38 PM   #56
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You are going there ?
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Old June 20th, 2012, 07:49 PM   #57
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Quote:
For the first team, that isn't needed. But the equipment for creating bricks out of Martian material will be available on Mars. Heavy construction machines like "bulldozers" aren't needed for this. So the colony can be extended easily.
one the picture we see buried modules, haw can you do this without machines?
using shovel? I thnik excavator is nessery.

Quote:
The Dragons will be flexible regarding their location and can be moved on the ground. An apt solution for the Martian surface will be worked out in the process.
I'm sure dragon will be flexible, and he could land in ewery cornre of the planet. Dont you think that the fire of the dragon landing, which can damage the already standing on the surface?
I think it would be helpful
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Old June 20th, 2012, 07:55 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geborgenheit View Post
You are going there ?
Addressing whom?
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Old June 20th, 2012, 08:00 PM   #59
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I don't think I understand your last question about dragon properly, kicaj.

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Originally Posted by kicaj View Post
one the picture we see buried modules, haw can you do this without machines?
using shovel? I thnik excavator is nessery.
Which buried modules? Everything will be overground, quite obviously.

Technical equipment for construction on Mars has to be as compact as possible for the first missions. It might include a small excavator. But since the gravity on Mars is so low, we really don't need heavy machinery for the small settlement that is intended for now.
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Old June 20th, 2012, 08:01 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erbse View Post
Addressing whom?
I thought you were the most interested in this project here.
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