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Old October 9th, 2018, 01:41 PM   #1061
sponge_bob
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Of course, maybe half-profile or 1+1 expressway would have been an option to safe money..
It was the only option to save money and you would have built a much longer 1+1 expressway towards the Serbian border for the same price.

Serbia itself has not quite jumped at the idea of completing a motorway at their end either. They will have 100km left to do after a project to start soon, bypassing Cacak is completed.

Their initial estimate is that this 100km will cost €1.5bn or €15m a km, I fear it will cost more like €2.5bn instead. They agreed to give the Chinese €50m to come up with a design and a cost estimate.

Even if the much richer and larger Serbia does spend €1.5-2.5bn to build such a road there will still be a 100km+ gap between the new Montenegrin motorway and the Serbian border and it would cost around the same to fill that gap as it would to build the Serbian road.

My opinion is that the 200km motorway gap between the Montenegrin and Serbian motorway networks will only be sorted after both join the EU in the future. Montenegro has already spent 25% of GDP on the current project, all borrowed of course.
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Old October 9th, 2018, 02:22 PM   #1062
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Now lets do the demand side.

Looking at the long motorway gap between Ioannina in Greece and Neum on the coast of Bosnia the total population of that, frankly, rather isolated part of Europe is much less than 4m people, and most of them are in Albania.

There are 3 separate new motorway plans to connect this isolate of less than 4m people.

1. Bosnia plans a motorway Sarajevo-Mostar , they cannot afford to build this very quickly so they are not doing great at it.
2. Serbia/Montenegro plan Belgrade- Bar.
3. Serbia also plans a new motorway from Nis to Pristina which is the easiest one and the one nearest completion of the 3 to my mind (and the only one with some EU funding) . It is also the cheapest of the 3 per km, at around €10m. That will bring a motorway, from Budapest or Vienna, to within 20km of the Adriatic south of Shkoder.

Then everybody (except Serbia) is talking on occasion about 4.

4. The Ionian Motorway. Only Albania has built a bit of that so far.

To my mind, with a population of barely 3.5m people living all the way from north of Dubrovnik to Ioannina, there is no business case for one of those 'trans Dinaric' roads at all and if 1 to 3 are built then building 4 will be near impossible and for many reasons.

Had everyone met in a room, many years ago, and agreed on one Transdinaric and one coastal motorway that would probably have been Belgrade-Bar (with EU funding etc) .

But as we know that did not happen. Pity.
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Old October 14th, 2018, 10:12 PM   #1063
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Well yes, of course it is true that half profile means no save overturning. But it would still add one street to the one already there and divide local traffic from other. Going up (north) would still be easier for heavy trucks and there would be no villages. Overturning would be possible on sections outside of tunnels only. The tunnels could be doubled later where necessary, starting with the shorter ones etc. Just a guess: The tunnels amount for half of the length, but for 3/4 of the cost. This means if you build the full road outside of the tunnel, but only one tube of all tunnels you will save 37,5% of the cost still. Just estimates, you could put in other numbers...

Reducing design speed is something not to correct later instead, but would have reduced cost even more. It makes the road longer of course, so its not so useful if it does not change the need for tunnels. But if you could make them shorter, it is very useful. I would guess, that using all this options would have reduced the cost by half...

Of course M6 or M8 are not similar. And inside of the gorge was no possibility of any similar upgrade, but at a new trajectory there would have been possibilities.

See with the now finished part the Andrijevica region is still far from anywhere. If it would have been possible to reach there with the same amount of money... Not speaking of some bypasses or a bridge at Kamenari/Lepetane... Of course it must be high to let ships through, but its between 400 and 600m wide, thats nothing nowadays.
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Old October 15th, 2018, 12:33 AM   #1064
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Well yes, of course it is true that half profile means no save overturning.
No Safe Overtaking. Actually no guaranteed safe overtaking. You are, of course, correct overall.

But the gradients and curves are pretty even on half profile so you don't get stuck behind trucks on long twisting climbs at 30kph. The traffic can usually manage 70-80kph averages, even trucks and buses.
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Old October 15th, 2018, 09:12 AM   #1065
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Now lets do the demand side.

Looking at the long motorway gap between Ioannina in Greece and Neum on the coast of Bosnia the total population of that, frankly, rather isolated part of Europe is much less than 4m people, and most of them are in Albania.
It is isolated, but it's also crowded with tourism and tourist developments. The problem is that they don't seem to be speaking to each other - a motorway through BiH leading to Trebinje and onwards to MNE makes zero sense, because that route is completely isolated and won't be used by anything other than long distance transit, and there's not much of that.

What should have been done was an agreement to build the easy sections (with EU financing!) between Neum and Tirana, which would at least ease the misery during summer a bit. For instance, it wouldn't be difficult to build a motorway from Tivat Airport/Kotor to Budva. There's plenty of space in Tivat Polje, and it would give some relief for the holiday traffic heading to/from Tivat Airport.

When you look at the map, it's actually not far from Neum to Budva - only 168km. Yet it takes 4-5 hours in summer, which is ridiculous.
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Old October 15th, 2018, 08:26 PM   #1066
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I think a single carriageway of a future motorway ("half-profile motorway") is good enough to be marked 2+1. If you separate the opposite lanes, you have a quite safe overtaking...
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Which new motorways are currently under construction?
Which new motorways will be opened next?

See 'New motorway projects' thread

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Old October 29th, 2018, 08:25 AM   #1067
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Old December 3rd, 2018, 12:54 PM   #1068
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Old December 23rd, 2018, 10:44 AM   #1069
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A1: Matesevo – Podgorica-North (M2) 41.0km (May 2015 to May 2019) – projectmap
To be opened in spring 2020 now.

https://investitor.me/2018/11/28/pre...proljece-2020/

https://portalanalitika.me/clanak/31...-proljece-2020
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Which new motorways are currently under construction?
Which new motorways will be opened next?

See 'New motorway projects' thread

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Old February 28th, 2019, 07:08 PM   #1070
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I was looking to similiar things but yes! I drove there last september. I found it somehow a bit small. No highways. Charming but sometimes irritating around Kotor/Herceg Novi. Complicated with the amount of busses at the mainroad.
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Old March 2nd, 2019, 05:11 PM   #1071
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Old March 3rd, 2019, 01:14 PM   #1072
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Hahaha. Fair enough. I enjoyed it tho. In my rental captur from Croatia left/right and puzzeling. Loved the country, a bit unknown by my western europa inhabitants
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Old March 3rd, 2019, 02:59 PM   #1073
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Ignoring all the controversy regarding the financing of this project this is going to be one impressive motorway
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Old March 3rd, 2019, 10:45 PM   #1074
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I was referring to the huge financial burden this project is to Montengro
Quote:
Chinese 'highway to nowhere' haunts Montenegro

[...]A Chinese loan for the first phase has sent Montenegro’s debt soaring and forced the government to raise taxes, partially freeze public sector wages and end a benefit for mothers to get its finances in order.

Despite those measures, Montenegro’s debt is expected to approach 80 percent of gross domestic product (GDP) this year and the International Monetary Fund says the country cannot afford to take on any more debt to finish its ambitious project.

“There is a big question about how they complete it,” said an EU official who requested anonymity. “Their fiscal space has shrunk enormously. They have strangled themselves. And for the time being this is a highway to nowhere.”[...]
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Old March 4th, 2019, 12:28 AM   #1075
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Well, without going into the politics of it (EU vs. China)
He didn't go into the politics. The motorway up north will cost 20% of GDP and no country in all of recorded history has spent 20% of their annual GDP on a 40km motorway.

Montenegro is unique in that regard, economically. Another 40km at that sort of cost would bankrupt the country. That said there are no cheap and easy options when it comes to building roads in Montenegro.
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Old March 4th, 2019, 08:50 PM   #1076
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$ 47 billion would equate to approximately 10% of Norway's annual nominal GDP. Though it is a long-term project (decades) and will partially be recovered through tolls.
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Old March 5th, 2019, 02:23 AM   #1077
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So, unlike Montenegro's highway project, which EU spin masters call "controversial" because its being built with Chinese money?
Norway has a wealth fund which is 200 times bigger than Montenegros entire economy. They pay cash, Montenegro does not.
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Old March 9th, 2019, 12:40 AM   #1078
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It was often tried before, but you can't get stupidity out of a brain by a hammer.
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Old March 17th, 2019, 10:13 AM   #1079
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Old April 18th, 2019, 09:18 AM   #1080
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It is pleasant, if there is no traffic

In summer it can be quite busy with buses, caravans and tourists that are afraid of squeezing their car further to the road edge - this can also mean occasional reverse driving into hill.
Are there any plans to widen this road? I know it would be difficult construction but it is possible.
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