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Old May 23rd, 2019, 11:32 PM   #181
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Military and National Security

Do note that the space allocated for the VLS is FFBNW (fitted for but not with) but indeed is allocated for an 8-cell launcher.

Last edited by Skyblade; May 23rd, 2019 at 11:40 PM.
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Old May 24th, 2019, 02:14 AM   #182
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Other angles...

photo from MaxDefense FB





The ship is really pretty and it is said that this is the most powerful asset not just for the Navy, but for the entire AFP! My biggest fear is whether the captain and crew will take care of it with tender loving care or just be laxed about it.

I remember when the BRP Tarlac, which at that time was the newest asset of the Navy, had a collision with a tanker. Granted its not necessarily their fault since the ship was just anchored doing nothing. But given the importance of the ship to the country, I would think they would enforce a more secure perimeter around it. Then there is the case of BRP Goryo which ran aground and now out of commission. I'm not a ship captain but I would think if you are in command of the nation's flagship, I should be familiar with potential dangerous waters and reefs.

It took this ship over half a decade to get to this point and it still won't be in our hands for over a year. We are only getting two. So I hope it lasts as long as those WW2 ships that are still in service! And don't even get me started on those super expensive helicopters this ship will house. The US Navy can afford to loose a destroyer or two, even nuclear submarines, due to collisions here and there with merchant ships. We can't!
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Old May 24th, 2019, 03:00 AM   #183
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Not just the most powerful asset - this is one of the most if not the MOST complicated public procurement the AFP has ever done.

Alejano's public pronouncements on the FAP was kaput in his Senate bid.

Lessons has to be learned by the DND and AFP re: ToR et. al.
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Old May 24th, 2019, 08:36 AM   #184
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PH Navy to get 3 more multi-purpose attack craft this year


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The Philippine Navy (PN) is expected to acquire another three multi-purpose attack craft (MPAC) armed with the Rafael Advanced Defense Ltd. Spike-ER (extended range) surface-to-surface missile system this year.

“We have another three (in the process of) building, and they are expected to be delivered this year. They will also be armed with the Spike-ER missiles,” PN flag officer-in-command Vice Admiral Robert Empedrad said in an interview with the Philippine News Agency (PNA) shortly after the launch of the missile frigate, BRP Jose Rizal (FF-150), at the Hyundai Heavy Industries shipyard here Thursday.

These MPACs will be called the Mark IV and have started construction in November last year.

Empedrad said the builders of the MPACs are the same as that of the previous Mark II and III.

The PN’s three Mark III MPACs were constructed by the Subic-based Propmech Corp. and activated on May 22, 2017.

These boats can cruise up to 45 knots and are armed with remotely-controlled .50-caliber machine guns aside from the Spike-ER missiles.
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Old May 24th, 2019, 08:57 AM   #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyblade View Post
Do note that the space allocated for the VLS is FFBNW (fitted for but not with) but indeed is allocated for an 8-cell launcher.
8-cell lang? Not 4x4?
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Old May 24th, 2019, 08:59 AM   #186
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The ship is really pretty and it is said that this is the most powerful asset not just for the Navy, but for the entire AFP! My biggest fear is whether the captain and crew will take care of it with tender loving care or just be laxed about it.

I remember when the BRP Tarlac, which at that time was the newest asset of the Navy, had a collision with a tanker. Granted its not necessarily their fault since the ship was just anchored doing nothing. But given the importance of the ship to the country, I would think they would enforce a more secure perimeter around it. Then there is the case of BRP Goryo which ran aground and now out of commission. I'm not a ship captain but I would think if you are in command of the nation's flagship, I should be familiar with potential dangerous waters and reefs.

It took this ship over half a decade to get to this point and it still won't be in our hands for over a year. We are only getting two. So I hope it lasts as long as those WW2 ships that are still in service! And don't even get me started on those super expensive helicopters this ship will house. The US Navy can afford to loose a destroyer or two, even nuclear submarines, due to collisions here and there with merchant ships. We can't!
No matter how good your Captain and Crew are, if your navigational maps are NOT updated, you could still end uo hitting a reef or a sand bar.
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Old May 24th, 2019, 11:52 AM   #187
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We're getting 3 of these former Pohang-Class Corvettes right? Are they our 1st ever ships with Torpedoes and Depth Charges?

BRP Conrado Yap to arrive in PH in July

“This ship will greatly enhance our fleet’s Anti-Air Warfare (AAW), Anti-Surface Warfare (ASUW), Anti-Submarine Warfare (ASW) capabilities,” Zata added.

The ship is armed with two 76mm Oto Melara main guns, a 30mm automatic cannons, anti-submarine torpedoes, and a variety of sensors, including sonars, and radars."
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Old May 24th, 2019, 11:59 AM   #188
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No, we only have one for now. Maybe we'll get more but that remains to be seen...
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Old May 24th, 2019, 12:03 PM   #189
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^ We should at least get 1 more so we'll have the 2 Frigates, 2 Corvettes, 3 OPVs as our primary combatants.

Sayang walang ASMs yung atin. The Pohang-Class had Exocets or Harpoons.
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Old May 24th, 2019, 12:10 PM   #190
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TBH, we should get at least 3 or 4, not a pair of each. But it seems the mindset of the PNoy admin was to get a pair, whether its the Hamiltons, SSVs or the Frigates. The only reason why we got a third Hamilton was because President Obama was feeling generous. It would have been nice if there was the "option to order more" with the HHI contract. But it looks like we're stuck with two and if we want more Frigates and have the funds for it, we still need to go through that tedious procurement law and its no guarantee we'll get the same class.
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Old May 24th, 2019, 12:12 PM   #191
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^ 3 is the "ideal minimum" for any major asset. 1 in service, 1 in maintenance, 1 in training.
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Old May 24th, 2019, 12:39 PM   #192
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Gawin mo ng 4. The other one visiting foreign ports here and there. Whenever I see one of the Hamiltons go out for a port visit, it makes me wonder how is our waters being guarded.
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Old May 24th, 2019, 01:24 PM   #193
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^ Of course, the more the merrier.

Let's get rich first and buy 2 more Frigates - larger this time, maybe 3-3,500 tons. We don't need more than 3 Pohang-Class and Hamiltons, if we have 4 Frigates total.

After that, we can buy Submarines and more SSVs. These landing ships are super flexible and have the most utility for our country. I still believe that our focus should be killing ALL NPA and Islamic terrorists. SSVs - carry helos, tanks, marines and soldiers - and Fast Crafts armed with Spike-ERs and 30mm cannons are BEST for these missions.
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Old May 24th, 2019, 02:06 PM   #194
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No, we only have one for now. Maybe we'll get more but that remains to be seen...
maybe after 48 years?
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Old May 24th, 2019, 05:36 PM   #195
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Imo the PN needs more Hamilton's which are actually larger than the new "frigates" and which range or endurance is 3x that of the new frigates and is faster as well, i see the Hamiltons primarily serving in the rougher and more remote waters of the country like the Luzon straits in the north and the Philippine sea on the Pacific side, the new frigates should mainly patrol around Scarborough Lingayen and the approaches to Manila/Subic bay, while the smaller corvettes are perfect for the Spratleys and southern waters, the remaining older ww2 ships are fine for internal waters .

Ideally the navy should get one or two more of the new frigate or at least another class of 3 small frigates, there should also be a project for a next class of larger and more capable ships around 4000 tonnes and finally 2 or 3 full sized destroyers around 8000 tonnes, this should be followed imo by a project for about a dozen corvettes of a single class to replace all current ww2 era peacock and pohang corvettes by the 2030's .

To top it all a new full deck lhd as flagships and of course the submarines, there is also a need for more auxiliary ships of all types from logistics to mine warfare to ocean survey ships submarine rescue ships oceangoing tugs etc .


Light Sigma class frigate .
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Old May 24th, 2019, 05:56 PM   #196
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Which is why I said the next 2 frigates should be based on the Jose Rizal class but pushed to 3-3,500 tons.

The upgrade path of the Hamiltons no longer include missiles or torpedoes. They're gonna remain OPVs.
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Old May 25th, 2019, 12:11 AM   #197
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Its a bit alarming that the FFBNW items havent even had a budget set aside after the entire frigate acquisition process. The first ship gets launched next year! Even if the Navy were to set aside money for next year, the earliest we can expect the FFBNW items to come is 2-3 years down the line. Thats not counting the downtime these ships will have to install these upgrades. And since its only a 2 ship class(for now), both cant be out of service at the same time. So for at least the next 5 years these ships will have to do with what it comes with during launch.
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Old May 25th, 2019, 12:47 AM   #198
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But it seems the mindset of the PNoy admin was to get a pair, whether its the Hamiltons, SSVs or the Frigates.
Its not Pnoy who decided on the naval procurement plans but the Naval brass. For the entirety of the AFP horizon modernization plan its 2 frigates per horizon for a total of 6. Additional SSV's are coming too. So in Duts term its expected he gets 2 as well. Because these ships will already be in service getting additional ones will be easier as they can do g2g instead of the tedious FAP bidding process. With regards to the frigates remember they were supposed to buy 2 second hand Italian ships but then decided to buy new ones instead.

Last edited by MoistFurball; May 25th, 2019 at 03:08 AM.
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Old May 25th, 2019, 03:08 AM   #199
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Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
TBH, we should get at least 3 or 4, not a pair of each. But it seems the mindset of the PNoy admin was to get a pair, whether its the Hamiltons, SSVs or the Frigates. The only reason why we got a third Hamilton was because President Obama was feeling generous. It would have been nice if there was the "option to order more" with the HHI contract. But it looks like we're stuck with two and if we want more Frigates and have the funds for it, we still need to go through that tedious procurement law and its no guarantee we'll get the same class.
Re; Hamiltons. It's not dependent on Obama if he felt "Generous". Countries put in the request for FMS and it's dependent on the US congressional approval if who gets what. PN has long sought for at least 3 Hamilton class ships (or more), but has since fell silent ever since the pronouncement of the D30 that he doesn't want second-hand-me-downs *cough*Jordan*cough*.

The limitation to get two Frigates was not bound by the PNoy Admin. Surprise, surprise, it was the only budget that our congress and senate was willing to give to the AFP Modernization Act Amendment under Republic Act No. 10349 (aka Horizon 1). The 18B allotted is already a huge sum of money, and getting a third one to approximately 27B would mean other projects would need to be set aside. This is already a huge uptick compared to the initial budget to acquire 2 Maestrales for only 12B. Below is an incomplete list of AFP modernization acquisitions under RA 10349 back when I still had the urge to update it for my own consumption, and the PN Desired Force Mix that has been publicized way back before congress approved the amendment;



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Last edited by baybum7; May 25th, 2019 at 03:51 AM.
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Old May 25th, 2019, 03:29 AM   #200
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Duterte approved the 300 billion requested for Horizon 2(2018-2022) last June yet isn't it weird that only 25 billion was allocated that year? Its the same for this year as well. We are well within the Horizon 2 already and only 50 billion has been set aside for modernization which is woefully insufficient.

*I think there's an updated force mix that was released earlier this year based on the amount of submarines, corvettes & opv's in that photo.

Last edited by MoistFurball; May 25th, 2019 at 03:41 AM.
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