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Old June 27th, 2019, 11:04 PM   #18101
urbnist
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Both the Arndale and Trinity Leeds have the same number of direct-from-street-to-mall entrances. I don't think Trinity is that much better integrated, just better disguised by its mish mash of architectural styles, so it appears less monolithic on some facades (as well as by being hidden by other buildings).

Meaningless. The Arndale is absolutely vast compared to Trinity both in floorspace and the area of land it occupies.
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Old June 27th, 2019, 11:08 PM   #18102
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I'd go so far as to say I hate shopping in Manchester city centre nowadays. Unless you're after something specific it's just too congested, an absolute pain to get around and not very nice to spend much more time than is necessary in that central retail area.

It used to be fun when the retail offer extended down Deansgate and John Dalton Street, but since it's retrenched to the Arndale Centre and surrounds, it's just a bit grim now.
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Old June 28th, 2019, 12:18 AM   #18103
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I'd still choose shopping around the City than the Trafford any day of the week. Unless it was a miserable wet and windy January afternoon.
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Old June 28th, 2019, 01:51 AM   #18104
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...and yet some people think Liverpool One's lack of a roof is a work of genius that Manchester needs to copy?

Straw man arguments again - that's not the only or even main reason why people prefer L1. Think about how permable L1 is, how well integrated, the fact that its streets and spaces are accessible 24/7, the seamless combination of streets, open space, green space and a broad range of brands that makes it such a good place to shop and spend time.
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Old June 28th, 2019, 09:36 AM   #18105
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Sainsbury’s signage is indeed going up in the retail unit of tower two of X1 Media City.
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Old June 28th, 2019, 09:42 AM   #18106
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I'd go so far as to say I hate shopping in Manchester city centre nowadays. Unless you're after something specific it's just too congested, an absolute pain to get around and not very nice to spend much more time than is necessary in that central retail area.

It used to be fun when the retail offer extended down Deansgate and John Dalton Street, but since it's retrenched to the Arndale Centre and surrounds, it's just a bit grim now.
Have you actually been to Deansgate?

Futon Company
Shuropdy
Waterstones
Cotswold Outdoor
Richer Sounds
Evans Cycles
Up and Runnig
The Pinarello Store
CP Hart
Sofa Workshop
Sainsburys
Forsyth Music
Origins
Top Secrets
Warehouse
Intro
Bobbi Brown
Ellis Brigham Mountain Sports
Blacks
The Christmas Decorators
Aldo Shoes
Sync
Lakeland Grocers
and many more...
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Old June 28th, 2019, 10:46 AM   #18107
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Straw man arguments again - that's not the only or even main reason why people prefer L1. Think about how permable L1 is, how well integrated, the fact that its streets and spaces are accessible 24/7, the seamless combination of streets, open space, green space and a broad range of brands that makes it such a good place to shop and spend time.
L1 on a wet Wednesday afternoon in January is a bleak as hell!
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Old June 28th, 2019, 12:48 PM   #18108
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Trinity is definitely better integrated, is easier to navigate and has bars and restaurants which keep it animated into the night, plus as said above it's much smaller.

Obviously L1 is a masterful bit of planning. Imagine being able to walk from Church Street to Exchange Square or from Spring Gardens to Dantzic Street how much better the city centre would be. I reckon footfall would increase.

The excuse that the Arndale is older isn't a good one, it's been despised since day one.
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Old June 28th, 2019, 01:07 PM   #18109
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Quote:
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Trinity is definitely better integrated, is easier to navigate and has bars and restaurants which keep it animated into the night, plus as said above it's much smaller..
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbnist View Post
Meaningless. The Arndale is absolutely vast compared to Trinity both in floorspace and the area of land it occupies.
Same number of entrances connecting mall with street. Yes the Arndale is bigger at 1.3m sq ft but Trinity is over 1m sq ft so hardly a tiddler! Both the Arndale and Trinity close at 8pm tonight, the Arndale foodcourt is open until 9pm tonight so I don't know how Trinity is 'more animated' at night? Easier to navigate, not really in my experience. The old part, west of Albion St and home to Primark, is a bit of a mess....

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.... Imagine being able to walk from Church Street to Exchange Square...
Try going in through the market and out through the Exchange Sqr entrance (between Next and Footasylum) … pretty direct route, its almost a straight line through the Arndale...

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or from Spring Gardens to Dantzic Street how much better the city centre would be. I reckon footfall would increase..
In through mall entrance on market St next to Urban Outfitters (or through Aldi/TK Maxx), out through mall entrance between Smiggle and Vodafone..

No need to imagine... just look at the bl**dy map
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Old June 28th, 2019, 02:44 PM   #18110
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Hoardings have now gone up around the former Vodafone unit within the Arndale, they are currently just blank white hoardings, no advertising up yet for the future retailer who will be taking the unit.
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Old June 28th, 2019, 03:49 PM   #18111
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I'd say Trinity Kitchen is in a different league to the Arndale foodcourt... somewhere you'd want to spend time.
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Old June 28th, 2019, 03:58 PM   #18112
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Well my point was that Trinity has bars and restaurants with street frontage and roof terraces within the Trinity which are open past 9, into the early hours in fact. The Arndale doesn't, but most people know that. Traders who although would obviously trade in Manchester, would not consider the Arndale or the surrounding areas.
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Old June 28th, 2019, 04:22 PM   #18113
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Ardnale has restaurants open past 9. Not very successful currently, but nevertheless, they exist.

Bare in mind, the Ardnale has to contend with the Corn Exchange.
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Old June 28th, 2019, 05:00 PM   #18114
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Well now I'm confused. People first complained the Arndale dominates the city centre and sucks everything in, now you're all saying its a failure as it hasn't tempted places like The Botanist inside and away from Deansgate... I give up.....


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Well my point was that Trinity has bars and restaurants with street frontage .... Traders who although would obviously trade in Manchester, would not consider the Arndale or the surrounding areas.
A handful on Boar Lane. Excluding those that are up on the terrace, not much more than Caffe Nero and Pizza Hut on Corp St... The Arndale has The Printworks and The Corn Exchange right next door... in fact, like with the Botanist, I don't think there's many of the places you find in Trinity Leeds that aren't within 5 minutes of the Arndale (or a there's comparable competitor to those that aren't represented here at least)

Quote:
I'd say Trinity Kitchen is in a different league to the Arndale foodcourt... somewhere you'd want to spend time.
Well yes. But lots of people like KFC and McDonalds (Leeds has its McD's in a unit on its main shopping street!) I think we're in danger of being a bit snobby, as Urbnist said, the city centre has to cater for all tastes and budgets, not everyone wants pricey/trendy 'streetfood' but at least the Halle Sq development and the eateries around the Winter Garden parts of the Arndale go someway to try to provide more pleasant and upmarket dining choices.
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Old June 28th, 2019, 05:06 PM   #18115
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Well now I'm confused
Clearly

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Originally Posted by iheartthenew View Post
I give up.....
That's for the best
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Old June 28th, 2019, 05:27 PM   #18116
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Me Confused? That was sarcasm, I dont think I'm the confused one here really... and if you've nothing constructive to say you can **** off
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Old June 28th, 2019, 05:55 PM   #18117
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On the way.

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Old June 28th, 2019, 06:57 PM   #18118
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Quote:
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Straw man arguments again - that's not the only or even main reason why people prefer L1. Think about how permable L1 is, how well integrated, the fact that its streets and spaces are accessible 24/7, the seamless combination of streets, open space, green space and a broad range of brands that makes it such a good place to shop and spend time.
Sorry. I think you are projecting your opinions onto everybody else and then magicing them into "facts".

I don't think the average person gives a **** about how L1 seamlessly combines open space yadda yadda yadda. I'll certainly say on the very wet day I visited i didn't appreciate that. My main thought was finding somewhere to shelter from the rain.

If it was on the Costa Del Sol, fine. But it isn't, it's in northern England.

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The Arndale traps footfall within its internal loop which is why shops struggle outside this very restricted zone. It also explains why apart from the failed Avenue, there's been almost a complete absense of investment in new retail schemes in the last 15 years and why in a era when retail is struggling generally, the city centre's offer is contracting whilst the Trafford Centre is expanding.

The Arndale makes the city centre less attractive, less resilient and is probably the city centre's biggest remaining blight.
Again, in your opinion. Perhaps the lull in retail investment in Manchester has something to do with the money spent invested between 1996 and ~2006. Including - an expansion of the Arndale. Something Leeds, Liverpool and Birmingham have only caught up with more recently

If you care to tear yourself from your beloved cities of Liverpool, Leeds, Trafford Centre and not so beloved Manchester. You will see that Manchester is actually weathering the current retail woes remarkably well. I have recently seen town centres where the downturn is so acute they resemble a war zone.

Equally, as I have already pointed out - the Trafford Centre is not expanding, they are merely recycling retail space that they haven't been able to let for over 10 years, in the hope that they might be able to let it if they change its retail category.
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Old June 28th, 2019, 08:43 PM   #18119
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Have you actually been to Deansgate?

Thanks for confirming there are shops on Deansgate.
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Old June 28th, 2019, 08:46 PM   #18120
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Same number of entrances connecting mall with street. Yes the Arndale is bigger at 1.3m sq ft but Trinity is over 1m sq ft so hardly a tiddler! Both the Arndale and Trinity close at 8pm tonight, the Arndale foodcourt is open until 9pm tonight so I don't know how Trinity is 'more animated' at night? Easier to navigate, not really in my experience. The old part, west of Albion St and home to Primark, is a bit of a mess....

Try going in through the market and out through the Exchange Sqr entrance (between Next and Footasylum) … pretty direct route, its almost a straight line through the Arndale...

In through mall entrance on market St next to Urban Outfitters (or through Aldi/TK Maxx), out through mall entrance between Smiggle and Vodafone..

No need to imagine... just look at the bl**dy map

Not sure if you're being deliberately obtuse but surely you realise that because it might be possible to pick a way through the Arndale Centre, that's not necessarily the same is it being direct and convenient.
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