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Old February 12th, 2019, 06:28 PM   #6681
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Originally Posted by Uaarkson View Post
I've warmed up considerably to BIG's design. Still prefer Foster's, but I realized the only reason I hate the newer design was because I was so totally married to the original.
I think this is a Stockholm Syndrome kind of thing like Disney Star Wars or alternative rock Metallica that people force themselves to warm up to it because they resign to the fact that they're not gonna get any better.

Not referring to you personally but comments like that I see in general.
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Old February 12th, 2019, 06:31 PM   #6682
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NEW YORK | 2 World Trade Center | 403m | 1323ft | 82 fl | Pro

Letís not forget that at it core this is public land, only because of some shady middle management lease deal is this in Silversteins hands.
Had this remained public I have no doubt that either the twins would have been rebuilt, or we would have Fosters design.
As we all know the PA have no problem spending money and thatís always a bad thing.

Last edited by Wbino49; February 13th, 2019 at 03:42 AM.
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Old February 13th, 2019, 01:44 AM   #6683
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Shit or get off the pot, Silverstein.
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Old February 13th, 2019, 01:53 AM   #6684
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I think a lot of people on here have forgotten all the road blocks Silverstein went through in the previous decade to get the WTC rebuilt.

There should be a statue of him somewhere in Lower Manhattan someday.
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Old February 13th, 2019, 02:08 AM   #6685
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Agree to disagree. This entire process has been mismanaged from the start.
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Old February 13th, 2019, 03:27 AM   #6686
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I think a lot of people on here have forgotten all the road blocks Silverstein went through in the previous decade to get the WTC rebuilt.

There should be a statue of him somewhere in Lower Manhattan someday.
You mean all the road blocks he went through to try to have it built for free without paying a dime of his own money.

Any statue of his should be surrounded by statues of citizens with torches and pitchforks.
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Old February 13th, 2019, 03:38 AM   #6687
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Originally Posted by spectre000 View Post
I think a lot of people on here have forgotten all the road blocks Silverstein went through in the previous decade to get the WTC rebuilt.



There should be a statue of him somewhere in Lower Manhattan someday.


Who knew Mr. Silverstein was a SkyscraperCity forum member?
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Old February 13th, 2019, 03:41 AM   #6688
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Stacked box buildings are already passť. Foster's design would still be unique.
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Old February 13th, 2019, 03:56 AM   #6689
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A tower which will fill NYC skyline for a hundred years will be decided (tenant wise)by a .com bubble company that will be gone in ten years.
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Old February 13th, 2019, 05:00 AM   #6690
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Quote:
Originally Posted by droneriot View Post
You mean all the road blocks he went through to try to have it built for free without paying a dime of his own money.

Any statue of his should be surrounded by statues of citizens with torches and pitchforks.
Everyone else was running from LM. He built 7WTC on spec when everyone else thought he was nuts. He built three towers with insurance money, tax credits, Build America Bonds, etc. Meh, so what.

You think heís different from all the other big name devs? None of these guys got where they are spending their own money. Iím over that argument.
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Old February 13th, 2019, 05:09 AM   #6691
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He's intending on spending a lot of his money soon, if he meant what he said to Bloomberg. 2 WTC will cost billions. That's a lot of debt to take on over speculation. Two Manhattan West, by comparison, is being developed by a larger company whose risk is much lower.

Brookfield is the eighth largest property owner in the city. Silverstein is all the way back at the No. 15 spot.

Last edited by Hudson11; February 13th, 2019 at 05:19 AM.
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Old February 13th, 2019, 05:09 AM   #6692
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That BIG design was custom made for Fox News. Each of those boxes was suppose to house a different studio for their programs such as Fox and Friends, Hannity, etc.

The BIG design is not practical for other tenants as they will be forced to commit to exact floors due to the partition nature of the BIG Design.

Since No Media company will be moving into 2 WTC and the tenants they will potentially attract are in finance, banking, corporate, the Norman Foster Design Works and the foundation already exists.

Hopefully they will realize this as well and tweak the Foster Design to make it more up to date and shelve the BIG Design for good.
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Old February 13th, 2019, 05:35 PM   #6693
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If Mr. Silverstein really plans to pay out of pocket for this, he needs to get a bit more pragmatic.

As Mercenary mentioned:

1) The BIG design was crafted specifically for Fox, who is now out.

2) The foundation for the Foster tower already exists; ripping it up and starting over would not only be unimaginably disruptive for Westfield (who refused to even add retail tenants in 3WTC until the full tower was built for this reason), but also incredibly expensive, and building something on spec demands cost saving measures.

3) Foster's blueprints exist, and if modifications are necessary or desired, they can be made to that design (outdoor space on the eastern setback, an open-air atrium, etc).

Personally, the only change I'd make is adding thirteen feet so that 2WTC would once again rise to 1362 feet. I mean, come on, 13 feet is like what, one story taller? Totally manageable with a minor tweak.
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Old February 13th, 2019, 08:52 PM   #6694
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i dont know about you guys, but i've got half a mind to go down there and set up a whole post about how fosters 2 wtc design is the best choice for the site.
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Old February 14th, 2019, 03:14 PM   #6695
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i dont know about you guys, but i've got half a mind to go down there and set up a whole post about how fosters 2 wtc design is the best choice for the site.
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Old February 14th, 2019, 06:10 PM   #6696
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enigmatism415 View Post
If Mr. Silverstein really plans to pay out of pocket for this, he needs to get a bit more pragmatic.

As Mercenary mentioned:

1) The BIG design was crafted specifically for Fox, who is now out.

2) The foundation for the Foster tower already exists; ripping it up and starting over would not only be unimaginably disruptive for Westfield (who refused to even add retail tenants in 3WTC until the full tower was built for this reason), but also incredibly expensive, and building something on spec demands cost saving measures.

3) Foster's blueprints exist, and if modifications are necessary or desired, they can be made to that design (outdoor space on the eastern setback, an open-air atrium, etc).

Personally, the only change I'd make is adding thirteen feet so that 2WTC would once again rise to 1362 feet. I mean, come on, 13 feet is like what, one story taller? Totally manageable with a minor tweak.


Foster's tower is "outdated". BIG's could seem more attractive to a lot of companies. It has more desirable office space so it could still be worth re working the foundation.

Totally agree about the 1,362' though.
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Old February 14th, 2019, 06:20 PM   #6697
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I disagree. Foster's is perhaps the most timeless design of the all the builds at WTC. BIG's has the potential to be dated in just a few decades time.
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Old February 14th, 2019, 07:12 PM   #6698
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay View Post
Foster's tower is "outdated". BIG's could seem more attractive to a lot of companies. It has more desirable office space so it could still be worth re working the foundation.

What about the office space in BIG's design is unable to be implemented in Foster's design with a modification? As long as the exterior is comparable, the innards are up in the air.
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Old February 14th, 2019, 07:47 PM   #6699
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enigmatism415 View Post
If Mr. Silverstein really plans to pay out of pocket for this, he needs to get a bit more pragmatic.

As Mercenary mentioned:

1) The BIG design was crafted specifically for Fox, who is now out.

2) The foundation for the Foster tower already exists; ripping it up and starting over would not only be unimaginably disruptive for Westfield (who refused to even add retail tenants in 3WTC until the full tower was built for this reason), but also incredibly expensive, and building something on spec demands cost saving measures.

3) Foster's blueprints exist, and if modifications are necessary or desired, they can be made to that design (outdoor space on the eastern setback, an open-air atrium, etc).

Personally, the only change I'd make is adding thirteen feet so that 2WTC would once again rise to 1362 feet. I mean, come on, 13 feet is like what, one story taller? Totally manageable with a minor tweak.

I agree with you. This September, Silverstein was interviewed by New York Yimby and he was quoted as saying that the Foster design could still happen.

Quote:
What are the chances we see the Foster design instead of the BIG Plan?

Well, we now have two designs to choose from. Theyíre very different. Someoneís going to come along, we have a choice of two fantastic plans to show, and whichever that occupant prefers is the one we will build.

So Fosterís can still happen?

Yes.
I have my fingers crossed... I believe that the initial article announcing the on-spec decision is just assuming the chosen design. Either way I will be happy to see the site finished after 20 long years.
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Old February 14th, 2019, 08:01 PM   #6700
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Letís all team together to lease space in Fosters designed tower, once it is completed we file bankruptcy. 🤪
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200 greenwich st., 2wtc, foster and partners, lower manhattan, new york, nyc, silverstein, supertall, world trade center

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