The Stone Yard | High Street Deritend | Mixed-Use | 30/16/10/9/6fl | 98/50/35/28/22m | Prop. - Page 4 - SkyscraperCity
 

forums map | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > European Forums > UK & Ireland Architecture Forums > Projects and Construction > Birmingham Metro Area

Birmingham Metro Area Birmingham, Coventry, Wolverhampton and the West Midlands


Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old September 28th, 2019, 03:23 AM   #61
RalphGuy
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Birmingham
Posts: 8,545
Likes (Received): 4723

In the Design and Access Statement Part 2, in both the Emerging Scale and Future Massing sections, it shows the proposed tower at Smithfield being 42 storeys.
RalphGuy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old September 30th, 2019, 07:03 PM   #62
doggadogdog
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 72
Likes (Received): 70

Can't imagine that the spotted dog pub will be very happy with this proposal. It may plunge the pub into perpetual darkness and could lead to to more noise complaints from new residents.

I will be objecting to the proposed blocks D, E, F on the basis that the sound proofing for the windows is inadequate for a new build in close proximity to an existing live music venue. I want to see triple glazing on all facades facing Digbeth High Street and Alcester Street. Having lived in Digbeth for 10 plus years I can tell you that it's flipping noisy.

I've had a read through the noise report from Sandy Brown and it does not mention the Spotted Dog pub at all, in fact the facade facing the Spotted Dog is listed as medium risk for noise ingress.

Could one of you cast your eye over the noise report and give me your expert opinion. I will pass on your thoughts to the landlord, John Tighe at the Spotted Dog.
__________________

Last edited by doggadogdog; September 30th, 2019 at 07:32 PM.
doggadogdog no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 30th, 2019, 09:56 PM   #63
djay
The promised land
 
djay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Birmingham
Posts: 15,180
Likes (Received): 2698

Quote:
Originally Posted by doggadogdog View Post
Can't imagine that the spotted dog pub will be very happy with this proposal. It may plunge the pub into perpetual darkness and could lead to to more noise complaints from new residents.

I will be objecting to the proposed blocks D, E, F on the basis that the sound proofing for the windows is inadequate for a new build in close proximity to an existing live music venue. I want to see triple glazing on all facades facing Digbeth High Street and Alcester Street. Having lived in Digbeth for 10 plus years I can tell you that it's flipping noisy.

I've had a read through the noise report from Sandy Brown and it does not mention the Spotted Dog pub at all, in fact the facade facing the Spotted Dog is listed as medium risk for noise ingress.

Could one of you cast your eye over the noise report and give me your expert opinion. I will pass on your thoughts to the landlord, John Tighe at the Spotted Dog.
Itís a fairly robust assessment to me. I would guess that when they did the noise measurements the Spotted Dog wasnít playing loud music. I would have thought that Environmental Protection will be aware of the Spotted Dog as a noise source and I wouldnít be surprised if we see additional information submitted.

Having said that, there are existing residential dwellings at Abacus opposite the pub which are not triple glazed. The council also approved the smaller building just a bit up the alcester Road. This would suggest that triple glazing is not required. You will notice that the facades adjacent to the Irish Centre arenít recommended to have triple glazing. So I wouldnít suggest that you put that request in your objection but raising the Spotted Dog as a noise source should definitely be done.

Triple glazing on High Street i also think is pointless. The road noise will be far louder than the music noise. So if the glazing is adequate to cut out road noise, it will probably sort out the music noise from across the street but again, raise it.
__________________

If I ain't the one I'm the prototype

Last edited by djay; September 30th, 2019 at 10:07 PM.
djay no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old October 1st, 2019, 12:15 PM   #64
doggadogdog
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 72
Likes (Received): 70

Thanks Djay for your comments. I would respectfully disagree that this is "robust assessment". Any robust assessment would have mentioned the following, The Old Crown Pub and beer garden, The Irish Centre, The Digbeth Arena, The Mill, Digbeth Dining Club, The Spotted Dog.

The only interest the sound assessment serves is the motivations of the developer who commissioned it in order to tick the relevant boxes. Of course we have been here before many times - Rainbow, Fiddle and Bone The Spotted Dog have all been hit by noise abatement orders because of serious failings with noise assessments and implementation of sound proofing.

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/new...-rainbow-95710
doggadogdog no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 1st, 2019, 12:54 PM   #65
djay
The promised land
 
djay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Birmingham
Posts: 15,180
Likes (Received): 2698

Quote:
Originally Posted by doggadogdog View Post
Thanks Djay for your comments. I would respectfully disagree that this is "robust assessment". Any robust assessment would have mentioned the following, The Old Crown Pub and beer garden, The Irish Centre, The Digbeth Arena, The Mill, Digbeth Dining Club, The Spotted Dog.

The only interest the sound assessment serves is the motivations of the developer who commissioned it in order to tick the relevant boxes. Of course we have been here before many times - Rainbow, Fiddle and Bone The Spotted Dog have all been hit by noise abatement orders because of serious failings with noise assessments and implementation of sound proofing.

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/new...-rainbow-95710
You opinion but in my experience, things that are further away and blocked by building tend to be quieter than the road right in front of the site and uses adjacent.
__________________

If I ain't the one I'm the prototype

haqemi liked this post
djay no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 1st, 2019, 01:13 PM   #66
citywatcher01
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 893
Likes (Received): 531

Amazing how people seem to think that noisy pubs are more important than housing. They could always just turn the music down! Wouldn't hurt would it?
__________________

BhamJim liked this post
citywatcher01 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 1st, 2019, 01:22 PM   #67
rotundazag
Registered User
 
rotundazag's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,189
Likes (Received): 1205

Iím amazed why anyone would want to live next to a noisy venue - then complain that itís noisy!
__________________

Kingsheathen, BABYCAKES liked this post
rotundazag no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 1st, 2019, 01:42 PM   #68
RotatingMembrane
Pro Entomologist
 
RotatingMembrane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Staffordshire
Posts: 395
Likes (Received): 1427

Quote:
Originally Posted by citywatcher01 View Post
Amazing how people seem to think that noisy pubs are more important than housing. They could always just turn the music down! Wouldn't hurt would it?
A large part of what makes Digbeth attractive is its wide range of music venues. These venues must be allowed to play music at appropriate volume for the full enjoyment of their patrons. Any residential developments should take this into account and not risk threatening the existence of these venues through complaints from spoilsports. Shiny new residential developments will be the death of Digbeth's unique, vibrant culture if that culture is not properly considered during planning. There are plenty of other areas in Birmingham where housing is being built where noise is not nearly as much of an issue.
__________________
RotatingMembrane está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old October 1st, 2019, 02:42 PM   #69
jonfsnow
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Coventry
Posts: 1,439
Likes (Received): 1770

Quote:
Originally Posted by citywatcher01 View Post
Amazing how people seem to think that noisy pubs are more important than housing. They could always just turn the music down! Wouldn't hurt would it?
Do you take the same view with the JQ - historic, industrial area that makes 40% of the UK's jewellery and many firms are several hundred years old?

Manufacturers should 'turn down their machines' because housing is more important than cultural and economic activity that makes the area interesting in the first place?
__________________
jonfsnow no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 1st, 2019, 02:51 PM   #70
doggadogdog
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 72
Likes (Received): 70

I was in the Old Crown a few weeks back. There must have been 200 people in the rear beer garden enjoying the last of the summer wine for the old crowns 651st birthday party.

I expect that without sufficient sound proofing the residents of new apartments across the road at the stone yard will soon be calling up Birmingham environmental team to lodge complaints.

I will personally be starting the "save the old crown" and "save the spotted dog" campaigns in the coming weeks. I have some contacts at the Birmingham Mail, watch this space ! This should sharpen the minds at the planning meeting.

Let's see about that triple glazing. Can anyone with a critical eye, please take a look at the sound report and poke some holes in it.
__________________

Last edited by doggadogdog; October 1st, 2019 at 03:46 PM.
doggadogdog no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 1st, 2019, 04:18 PM   #71
jonfsnow
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Coventry
Posts: 1,439
Likes (Received): 1770

Quote:
Originally Posted by doggadogdog View Post
I was in the Old Crown a few weeks back. There must have been 200 people in the rear beer garden enjoying the last of the summer wine for the old crowns 651st birthday party.

I expect that without sufficient sound proofing the residents of new apartments across the road at the stone yard will soon be calling up Birmingham environmental team to lodge complaints.

I will personally be starting the "save the old crown" and "save the spotted dog" campaigns in the coming weeks. I have some contacts at the Birmingham Mail, watch this space ! This should sharpen the minds at the planning meeting.

Let's see about that triple glazing. Can anyone with a critical eye, please take a look at the sound report and poke some holes in it.
For the love of God don't talk to the Mail, they'll turn legitimate concerns over one planning applications into a way of bemoaning everything about the city. Talk to I Choose Mag or Bham Updates instead. If you speak to the Mail the first comments on the article will blame ethnic minorities, Europe, the Labour run council, the Tories, moan about the new library and ask why the money isn't spent building more roads.

Birmingham's motto is famously Forward, the Mail's is Backwards.
jonfsnow no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 1st, 2019, 05:23 PM   #72
citywatcher01
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 893
Likes (Received): 531

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonfsnow View Post
Do you take the same view with the JQ - historic, industrial area that makes 40% of the UK's jewellery and many firms are several hundred years old?

Manufacturers should 'turn down their machines' because housing is more important than cultural and economic activity that makes the area interesting in the first place?
No but with adequate safeguards businesses and residential can live side by side. Get out more. It happens
__________________

djay liked this post
citywatcher01 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 1st, 2019, 06:09 PM   #73
jonfsnow
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Coventry
Posts: 1,439
Likes (Received): 1770

Quote:
Originally Posted by citywatcher01 View Post
No but with adequate safeguards businesses and residential can live side by side. Get out more. It happens
Get out more, from the fella asking pubs to turn the music down

Indeed it does, but it should never be at the expense of the things that make the area a desirable place to live in the first place just because we allegedly have a housing shortage.
__________________

Kingsheathen liked this post
jonfsnow no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 1st, 2019, 11:29 PM   #74
citywatcher01
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 893
Likes (Received): 531

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonfsnow View Post
Get out more, from the fella asking pubs to turn the music down

Indeed it does, but it should never be at the expense of the things that make the area a desirable place to live in the first place just because we allegedly have a housing shortage.
Fair enough. I just think balance needs to be found. I've travelled extensively and many cities manage to have apartments, light industrial and leisure cheek by jowel. Zurich springs to mind.
__________________

jonfsnow liked this post
citywatcher01 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 2nd, 2019, 12:45 AM   #75
Route 435
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 298
Likes (Received): 252

As if pubs weren't finding it difficult already without neighbours moving into a lively city centre area then moaning that it isn't quiet like the suburbs. Annoys the hell out of me.
__________________
Route 435 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 2nd, 2019, 01:04 AM   #76
jonfsnow
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Coventry
Posts: 1,439
Likes (Received): 1770

Quote:
Originally Posted by citywatcher01 View Post
Fair enough. I just think balance needs to be found. I've travelled extensively and many cities manage to have apartments, light industrial and leisure cheek by jowel. Zurich springs to mind.
I do take your point and perhaps I was being a bit facetious but hopefully if both parties provide honest assessments a compromise can be reached in the same way that it was for timber yard
jonfsnow no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 6th, 2019, 01:01 AM   #77
sefton66
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Birmingham
Posts: 25,725
Likes (Received): 7961

Quote:
Originally Posted by doggadogdog View Post
I want to see triple glazing on all facades facing Digbeth High Street and Alcester Street. Having lived in Digbeth for 10 plus years I can tell you that it's flipping noisy.
Triple glazing can actually make noise worse much better having double glazing or acoustic glazing
sefton66 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 6th, 2019, 01:18 PM   #78
sefton66
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Birmingham
Posts: 25,725
Likes (Received): 7961

Apparently this has backing from Tony Gallagher

No access to full article https://www.egi.co.uk/news/court-col...to-birmingham/
__________________

RalphGuy liked this post
sefton66 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 6th, 2019, 02:28 PM   #79
daumal
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Greater Gornal
Posts: 1,890
Likes (Received): 595

Quote:
Originally Posted by djay View Post
Itís a fairly robust assessment to me. I would guess that when they did the noise measurements the Spotted Dog wasnít playing loud music. I would have thought that Environmental Protection will be aware of the Spotted Dog as a noise source and I wouldnít be surprised if we see additional information submitted.

Having said that, there are existing residential dwellings at Abacus opposite the pub which are not triple glazed. The council also approved the smaller building just a bit up the alcester Road. This would suggest that triple glazing is not required. You will notice that the facades adjacent to the Irish Centre arenít recommended to have triple glazing. So I wouldnít suggest that you put that request in your objection but raising the Spotted Dog as a noise source should definitely be done.
Wasn't it complaints from residents of Abacus that made Environmental Health decide to curtail outdoor music events at the Spotted Dog?
daumal no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 6th, 2019, 04:47 PM   #80
RalphGuy
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Birmingham
Posts: 8,545
Likes (Received): 4723

Quote:
Originally Posted by sefton66 View Post
Apparently this has backing from Tony Gallagher

No access to full article https://www.egi.co.uk/news/court-col...to-birmingham/


There is access to the full article. Well worth a read.
RalphGuy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 


Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Metrolink and Tram-train future lines/concepts MarkO Greater Manchester Transport Projects 12085 November 11th, 2019 01:10 PM
Connaught Square | High Street Deritend | Mixed-Use | Original Proposal | Canc. Erebus555 Birmingham Metro Area 620 December 25th, 2015 01:42 PM
FORUM INDEX - Newcastle Forum ALPHABETICAL SUBJECT INDEX to factual posts on this forum Newcastle Historian Newcastle Metro Area 79 March 13th, 2012 10:29 AM
Bullring Trading Estate | High Street Deritend | Mixed-Use | Canc. feltip Birmingham Metro Area 27 November 17th, 2008 11:27 PM


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 10:24 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us