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Old July 20th, 2018, 04:20 PM   #141
Ynhockey
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Shafdan Rishon LeZion water recycling plant, video by Yuval Dax:

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Old August 31st, 2018, 06:50 PM   #142
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New video of Ashalim by Eyal Shay, showing nice progress:

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Old September 1st, 2018, 07:54 PM   #143
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Unless I am mistaken, it already provides power to the grid, but they haven't reached full capacity yet.
There was an article recently in one of the business news sites (Calcalist/Globes/TheMarker) about residents of nearby towns complaining about blinding light emanating from the tower (which apparently is now nicknamed "the tower of Sauron"),
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Old September 5th, 2018, 07:53 PM   #144
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Ashlim power plant is simply amazing
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Old September 6th, 2018, 12:48 PM   #145
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It surely looks impressive, but its energy output is not so much.
121 MW is not alot and yet it occupies a pretty big area and apparently disturbs local residents.
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Old September 9th, 2018, 08:41 AM   #146
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Utilizing space

If you want to talk about utilizing public space, the government should install PV panels on ALL public building roofs (museums, schools, stadiums, theaters, Base camps...) and give incentive for privately owned companies with huge buildings (ie - factories, warehouses, hangars, cowsheds) to do the same.
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Old September 9th, 2018, 02:01 PM   #147
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Even if they did install PV panels on all public buildings, it would still constitute a small fraction of energy production in Israel.
Privately owned companies, shouldn't be given any taxpayer money, or it would become (and already is) a major source of corruption.
You can't just give them money and hope they install those panels.
What if they decided to pocket the money instead?
You would need to control every business's usage of that money, hire lots of inspectors, make sure some mayor in whatever small city, didn't give this money to his friend who just "happened" to provide generous donation for his recent election campaign.
If PV panels are that great, just ease on regulation and let them do it by themselves.
If you really care that much, go ahead and lower import taxes.
The sad reality is, that PV panels are not worth it, unless the local producers are allowed to sell energy back to IEC.
I spoke on another forum to an IEC employee and guess what, they aren't too happy about that (and not just for selfish reasons).
The grid as it is not designed for wildly varying energy input/output from multiple small sources.
This requires a whole different infrastructure and development.
IEC doesn't want to do that (and rightly so in this particular case).
Business owners won't invest in it either, because we are talking about massive amounts of cash that need to be sinked into that with no hopes of quick ROI.
So for now PV panels are not being adopted, and won't be unless somebody finally comes up with a cheap and high density rechargeable battery technology.
Under the given circumstances, if anybody wants to invest money into renewable energy at all, thermo solar large scale probably makes more sense for Israel.
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Old October 30th, 2018, 06:41 PM   #148
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Looks like the belated tender for the new (second) Sorek desalination plant is out:

Globes:
https://en.globes.co.il/en/article-i...ant-1001258500
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Old October 31st, 2018, 11:38 AM   #149
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Interesting that EIB plans on investing money in the project.
Wonder what is their reasoning for investment.
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Old October 31st, 2018, 12:16 PM   #150
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It's a major infrastructure project, it makes sense that foreign financial bodies are investing; unless there's something specific to the EIB that I don't know?
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Old November 1st, 2018, 02:01 PM   #151
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Nothing specific that I know of, but I think thats the first time, this bank takes part (or at least intends to) in desalination project in Israel.
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Old March 22nd, 2019, 09:37 PM   #152
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Natural gas pipeline to Jerusalem completed

At the ceremony, Steinitz said, "Through this pipeline and others being laid by Natural Gas Lines, we are serving Israel by improving and expanding the delivery of gas all over Israel. We will reach more consumers, connect more enterprises, cut costs, and we can all breathe cleaner air. We are in the midst of the natural gas revolution in Israel, and we will all profit from its results."

Article: https://en.globes.co.il/en/article-n...ted-1001279007
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Old April 14th, 2019, 12:43 PM   #153
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Ashalim got approval to connect to the power grid this week:

https://www.calcalist.co.il/local/ar...760296,00.html

It's not clear from the article however when it will be connected in practice--it implies that this will still take time.

It also talks about how 17 companies and concerns competed in the original tender for the power station, but most of them went bankrupt while waiting and only two concerns remained, one on each part of the station. What's more, the Spanish company in the concern with Shikun UVinui also went bankrupt. The project seems to be barely economical despite the generous government subsidy.
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Old April 14th, 2019, 03:19 PM   #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ynhockey View Post
Ashalim got approval to connect to the power grid this week:

https://www.calcalist.co.il/local/ar...760296,00.html

It's not clear from the article however when it will be connected in practice--it implies that this will still take time.

It also talks about how 17 companies and concerns competed in the original tender for the power station, but most of them went bankrupt while waiting and only two concerns remained, one on each part of the station. What's more, the Spanish company in the concern with Shikun UVinui also went bankrupt. The project seems to be barely economical despite the generous government subsidy.
The thermo-solar at Ashalim became a bit obsolete, as the prices of PV fell in intervening years. And the now the price of batteries is falling, the idea of using molten salt to store the solar energy also appears it could become obsolete.

In addition, it will have the unpleasant effect of killing birds, is quite imposing on landscape, dazzles the eyes of people driving by, and the cost of the electricity seems expensive even with the free gas subsidy they give to the plant.

-------------

The ideal combination for solar installation, would be to focus on floating photovoltaic arrays on bodies of water as these became economical.

These would also help to solve the water crisis, as they greatly reduce summertime evaporation, resulting in much less water loss from bodies of water.

I wonder if a large enough floating photovoltaic array, just placed around the center of the Dead Sea, could help solve its evaporation rate problems?

Last edited by chali1; April 14th, 2019 at 03:47 PM.
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Old April 14th, 2019, 05:44 PM   #155
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I wouldn't say that thermosolar is bad compared to PV, rather that both PV and thermosolar are inefficient and very expensive technologies, that both are not quite ready for prime time.
Regarding molten salt, true its not the most efficient way neither its particularly "sexy", but its still way cheaper then large scale lithium ion battery assemblies.
It is possible redox flow batteries may become just as cheap and significantly energetically denser way of storing energy, but they are still not out of development phase.

Putting PV panels on Dead Sea is not a good option.
First, because it would lessen its attractiveness to tourists, and second because it would be too close to border, which is a problem in itself.
It would also require laying down some rather thick wiring on Dead Sea's bottom, which is a major challenge, because both the bottom and the shore are extremely unstable (because of water retreat which created large caverns.
I doubt, its worth the money such a project would cost.
Again, why should we hurry up, when we have at least 2 decades (if not more) of cheap gas available to us?
Why not let others spend the money on R&D for us and get in the game once the prices are comparable to gas?
Except the moralistic BS of course.
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Old April 14th, 2019, 11:25 PM   #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matrix2020 View Post
I wouldn't say that thermosolar is bad compared to PV, rather that both PV and thermosolar are inefficient and very expensive technologies, that both are not quite ready for prime time.
Regarding molten salt, true its not the most efficient way neither its particularly "sexy", but its still way cheaper then large scale lithium ion battery assemblies.
It is possible redox flow batteries may become just as cheap and significantly energetically denser way of storing energy, but they are still not out of development phase.
PV isn't efficient? Really? Recent tenders for big PV sites were closed with selling the electricity for just about 0.2 ils/kwh. I'm pretty sure that's less than what it costs IEC to produce electricity. I'm pretty sure that currently, the only problem to efficiently store the electricity for the night- not to produce it.
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Old April 15th, 2019, 12:46 PM   #157
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Yes, PV is not efficient.
It consumes large land areas and its energy output is rather modest compared to the expected investments in the infrastructure.
The recent tenders were closed at low prices, because somebody is subsidizing the industry.
Either in Israel, or somewhere else.
Because the truth is, PV uses some rather expensive materials, some of which are pretty rare (cobalt, rare earth metals etc.
Btw the silicon used for panels isn't that cheap either.
Some of the cheaper panels are relatively cheap, because they are made from byproducts of semiconductor industry.
Thats not a sustainable way to keep this industry afloat.
And the only "problem" is not a minor nuisance.
It is major technological issue which may cast renewables as a niche market for the foreseeable future.
Just to give a comparison.
Belarussia is currently building a new nuclear power plant (which has caused a considerable amount of controversy with its relations with EU countries btw).
The price is ~10 billion usd.
But check out the expected energy output.
It is 3.6 gigawatt!
And it takes up only a rather small area.
And thats from the relatively expensive and outdated water/water reactors which aren't nearly the best tech there is in the field.
Compare that to investments in Ashalim (or even in those future PV installations).
If you wanted to scale up to dimensions of this power plant, you would have spend tens of billions of dollars.
And that only for a solution that works during daytime only.
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Old April 15th, 2019, 02:55 PM   #158
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There is no question that nuclear power should supply the bulk of the grid and serve as the base load. However, there are two issues:

1. Lots of people who think nuclear power is dangerous, even if there is no basis for this belief
2. Israel isn't a signatory to the NPT and doesn't have its own uranium (that we know of)

We also don't have good sources of hydro energy (yet)—another potentially large energy producer—and our solar potential is one of the highest in the world.

So I wouldn't discount utility-scale solar, as long as the subsidies don't come from the Israeli taxpayer. This is already possible with current technology, even though it's somewhere on the edge. Moreover, lots of private house owners would install PVs on their roofs if it was simple, but today it requires opening a legal business entity (!!), so people are discouraged. Another place where the government should get out of everyone's life.
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Old April 15th, 2019, 03:06 PM   #159
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1. True. Thats why people need to be educated.
Physics is not a dirty word.
2. I believe thorium doesn't fall under NPT limitations.

Utility scale solar, is not really a good option, even if it has become somewhat cheaper.
The article that sparked that debate illustrates that nicely.
Companies pretty much lost interest the moment they felt, that the government is dragging its legs.
Nobody will want to invest in large scale (let alone utility scale) solar, unless there are government subsidies and promises.
And that is a deal breaker as far as I am concerned.
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Old April 15th, 2019, 05:25 PM   #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ynhockey View Post
There is no question that nuclear power should supply the bulk of the grid and serve as the base load. However, there are two issues:
Why? It's nowadays resulting already in more expensive LCOE in some cases, and takes many years to install (by which time it begins operation, it may be outdated).

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