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Old April 15th, 2019, 12:23 PM   #17961
Kirt93
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Just a mistake. Well, either that or the author's prophetic insight into the future

To lighten up the mood from the conversation about the Italian companies, mycha777 made a video chronicling how the lorry traffic had looked like in Suwałki just the last day before the bypass was opened.

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Originally Posted by mycha777 View Post
This is what the citizens of Suwałki can now call the past, after having to endure it for so long.
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Old April 15th, 2019, 12:32 PM   #17962
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That is how it looked every working day in the last years before opening.
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Old April 15th, 2019, 02:48 PM   #17963
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The thing that amazes me about this corridor of which tge S61 is a part is that there is no proper plan for a motorway from Kaunas to Talinn and Talinn ferryport, even in the long term, save that in Poland and a bit of Lithuania.

With the volumes of HGVs it is evidently a key Euripean trade route nowadays.
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Old April 15th, 2019, 03:11 PM   #17964
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sponge_bob View Post
The thing that amazes me about this corridor of which tge S61 is a part is that there is no proper plan for a motorway from Kaunas to Talinn and Talinn ferryport, even in the long term, save that in Poland and a bit of Lithuania.

With the volumes of HGVs it is evidently a key Euripean trade route nowadays.
There are studies in Lithuania which profile Via Baltica north of Kaunas should choose. As far as I understand, new goverment after 2016 elections became sceptical about 2+1 profile. Maybe we could see 2+2 someday at least in Lithuanian section despite lower AADT in many places.
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Old April 15th, 2019, 03:21 PM   #17965
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Not much point in Lithuania having a plan only to terminate it in a field on the Latvian border.

There should be a proper Via Baltica Motorway plan to at least north of Riga, i appreciate an S2 can handle traffic on the LV/EE border for the present and that Riga-Talinn does not need motorway... for now. Get the Finns onboard too.

Poland has some concept of its role in border to border full motorway long distance transit, thank God for that much at least.
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Old April 15th, 2019, 03:32 PM   #17966
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sponge_bob View Post
Not much point in Lithuania having a plan only to terminate it in a field on the Latvian border.

There should be a proper Via Baltica Motorway plan to at least north of Riga, i appreciate an S2 can handle traffic on the LV/EE border for the present and that Riga-Talinn does not need motorway... for now. Get the Finns onboard too.

Poland has some concept of its role in border to border full motorway long distance transit, thank God for that much at least.
...or only to Pasvalys. Panevėžys-Pasvalys have something like 10k AADT, which even demands 2+2, while Pasvalys-Bauske has way less traffic than any Lithuanian section of Via Baltica as far as I know.

But I agree that Riga should also be connected with proper motorway like Kaunas will do. We should not afraid of lower AADT sections to become 2+2.

But maybe is right to make 2+2 to Latvian border and make Latvians mind to continue the 2+2 atleast to Riga?
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Old April 15th, 2019, 03:50 PM   #17967
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PovilD View Post
...or only to Pasvalys. Panevėžys-Pasvalys have something like 10k AADT, which even demands 2+2, while Pasvalys-Bauske has way less traffic than any Lithuanian section of Via Baltica
You are right. The important thing is that Pasvalys-PL border is at least built to Polish S Road standard and come back later to getting the same standard road from Pasvalys to north of Riga by agreement.

Polish A road standard would likely be too much road for the Via Baltica
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Old April 15th, 2019, 09:08 PM   #17968
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Some interesting stats on the A road (only) network in Poland.

Toll income was over 1/4 Billion Euros a year on the tolled stretches in 2017. (Toll revenues net collected by AWSA, AWSAII and SAM SA in the case of GTC SA the revenues are commercially sensitive information 1 EUR = 4,17 PLN)

http://www.asecap.com/member-s-natio...oad=307:poland
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Old April 17th, 2019, 11:14 AM   #17969
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kemo View Post
How is the distance to Warsaw measured from here?
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Old April 17th, 2019, 01:03 PM   #17970
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Through the planned S61 to Ostrów Mazowiecka and then S8.
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Old April 18th, 2019, 09:16 AM   #17971
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kemo View Post
Through the planned S61 to Ostrów Mazowiecka and then S8.
Should have guessed... so it's a futuristic number.
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Old April 18th, 2019, 10:17 AM   #17972
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It's not really well visible on this photo, but on this and other signs all entries except Białystok are crossed out, they will uncross them when S61 is complete.

IMO it's still quite misleading, though, I think only the distances should be crossed out and not the cities. If someone heads towards Warsaw and they are on the correct road, they should not be meeting directional signs where Warsaw is crossed out...

Quote:
Originally Posted by PovilD View Post
Panevėžys-Pasvalys have something like 10k AADT, which even demands 2+2, while Pasvalys-Bauske has way less traffic than any Lithuanian section of Via Baltica as far as I know.
Do you maybe know what percentage of these 10k are the lorries? In Suwałki if looking just at AADT the situation wouldn't look that bad, DK8 on the entrance to Suwałki from the northeast had 10.5k AADT and on the entrance from the southwest 12.5k AADT (data for 2015). Not a big deal, there are still some (though it's already quite few of them left ) sections of single lane DK roads in Poland with AADT above 20k. Only when observing that out of those 10.5k, lorries were 5.5k, we get to see how desperately this expressway had been needed.

Last edited by Kirt93; April 18th, 2019 at 11:44 AM.
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Old April 18th, 2019, 01:07 PM   #17973
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it has been a long time since global AADT numbers have been posted here. I thought the gddkia went years between making measurements. Are those numbers you mention recent? Are they taken by local authorities?
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Old April 18th, 2019, 01:18 PM   #17974
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PovilD View Post
...or only to Pasvalys. Panevėžys-Pasvalys have something like 10k AADT, which even demands 2+2, while Pasvalys-Bauske has way less traffic than any Lithuanian section of Via Baltica as far as I know.

But I agree that Riga should also be connected with proper motorway like Kaunas will do. We should not afraid of lower AADT sections to become 2+2.

But maybe is right to make 2+2 to Latvian border and make Latvians mind to continue the 2+2 atleast to Riga?
One thing that I would've done differently in Lithuania is I would've first built a 2+2 from Jonava to Ukmerge (38km). The Kaunas - Jonava section is already 2+2 and Ukmerge-Panevezys is a motorway so, with this section, we would've had a 2+2 between Kaunas and Panevezys. Yes it's 20km or so longer than the current project but the costs would've been tiny compared to building a brand new road via Kedainiai. A6 (Kaunas - Ukmerge) is also a fairly major truck road to Russia (I believe) that might need expanding in the future so it wouldn't have been a waste even if the Kedainiai option became viable again in the future for some reason.
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Old April 18th, 2019, 02:02 PM   #17975
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metacatfry View Post
I thought the gddkia went years between making measurements.
Yes, every 5 years. Hence like I wrote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirt93 View Post
(data for 2015)
So of course we'll need to wait till 2020 measurement to know exact number now, but I don't think any of the main points are likely to change, just the numbers will increase similarly as on most other roads. Also traffic on DK8 through Suwałki was already a hardcore in 2015 and then already the bypass was badly needed "for now", so those numbers seen in last measurement are apparently enough (with such a high percentage of lorries) to cause major problems if the traffic needed to go though the city.
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Old April 18th, 2019, 02:38 PM   #17976
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Contract for construction of the remaining section of A1 motorway between Gdańsk and PL/CZ border has been signed.

The existing 40 years old Gierkówka highway will be replaced with a 2x3 concrete motorway.
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Old April 18th, 2019, 03:03 PM   #17977
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirt93 View Post
Kirt93
I agree with your point about lorries and the need for the bypass, I just hoped for newer traffic numbers.
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Old April 18th, 2019, 04:05 PM   #17978
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirt93 View Post
Do you maybe know what percentage of these 10k are the lorries? In Suwałki if looking just at AADT the situation wouldn't look that bad, DK8 on the entrance to Suwałki from the northeast had 10.5k AADT and on the entrance from the southwest 12.5k AADT (data for 2015). Not a big deal, there are still some (though it's already quite few of them left ) sections of single lane DK roads in Poland with AADT above 20k. Only when observing that out of those 10.5k, lorries were 5.5k, we get to see how desperately this expressway had been needed.
You can pick up the data from 2015 in the Baltics and Poland on this map from the E Road people (the UNECE)

Some stats

S61 corridor Suwalki > LT Border AADT 10,417.00 HEAVY 5,550.00

This is an enormous % of Heavy Traffic , over 50%. Normally anything over a 10% heavy percentage is consider to be relatively heavy for any road and 20% Heavy is considered a lot, over 50% is unheard of in the rest of Europe.

LT Marijampole-Kaunas AADT 11,798.00 HEAVY 4,919.77
LT Kenainai-Panevezys AADT 5,688.00 HEAVY 2,127.31
LT Kaunas-Ukmerge AADT 13,148.0 HEAVY 2,471.82
LT Kaunas-Vilnius (near Vilnius) AADT 25,479.0 HEAVY 3,490.62
LT Vilnius-Ukmerge (near Ukmerge) AADT 10,861.00 HEAVY 1,118.68


From Suwalki to Panevezys _direct route_ this is evidently a very important freight route and Bleetz has a good point about initially building out Kaunas-Ukmerge as Motorway as it needs motorway Kaunas-Jonava anyway and doglegging the traffic there for the foreseeables.

The now complete portion of the S8 NE of Warsaw is a heavy freight corridor too.

PL NE of Wyswkow AADT 23,258.00 HEAVY 5,602.00

and for comparison A2 west of Poznan

PL West of Poznan AADT 20,642.00 HEAVY 5,677.00

all data from 2015 please note!

Quote:
• Category C: Goods road vehicles (lorries with a permissible maximum weight of more
than 3.5 tonnes
, lorries with one or more trailers; tractors with semi-trailers; one or
more trailers; tractors with one or more trailers and tractors without trailers or semitrailers) and special vehicles (agricultural tractors, special vehicles such as selfpropelled rollers, bulldozers, mobile cranes and army tanks and other road motor
vehicles not specified elsewhere).
• Category D: Motor buses, mini-buses, coaches and trolley buses.
17. Categories A and B constitute light motor traffic; categories C and D constitute heavy
motor traffic
Other countries might not count tractors and minibuses for their non UNECE based AADT stats.
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Old April 18th, 2019, 10:27 PM   #17979
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Southern carriageway of S8 Radziejowice - Przeszkoda was opened today, so it means that in direction Warsaw the whole route from Piotrków Trybunalski has at least 2 lanes Now we have to wait some time until they open the other carriageway in full profile.
There is still a ridiculous speed limit to 60 kph though...

https://www.openstreetmap.org/direct...2.0177/20.6375

Photos by autorushd






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Old April 18th, 2019, 11:06 PM   #17980
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Quote:
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Suwałki bypass with traffic

Photos by neglected



This is brutal, so many trucks ... I think it's the best for car drivers to drive through the city. I can imagine the congestion on current end of S61.
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