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Old February 19th, 2012, 02:27 PM   #41
Cosmicbliss
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I am a western Maharashtra person and have the following thoughts:

1. Development depends essentially on the will of the people at the top. Last 10-12 years, Maharashtra didn't have a CM who was development-oriented and that's the reason it's not doing too well. The people who govern should be committed to develop the State. Even if separate Vidarbha forms, it will be the same MLAs/MPs as there are today. Will they automatically become development oriented if a separate State forms?
2. What exactly is the difference between W. Maharashtra Marathi culture and Vidharbha Marathi culture? I am curious to know, no disrespect. As far as I have seen after travelling in Maharashtra, I haven't seen much difference. Accent difference cannot be taken to be a big thing, that is true for all States/countries, that the accent of people speaking the same language varies from place to place. What are the major differences?
3. On the ground level, how strong is the support for Vidarbha? I am asking because support for separate Telangana/Gorkha Land seems to be much more visible. Even my relatives from Nagpur aren't keen on separate Vidarbha. Given that 50 %+ of Vidarbha is Marathi-speaking, do the Maharashtrians really support having two Marathi speaking States?

Just some thoughts from my side.
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Old February 19th, 2012, 11:03 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmicbliss View Post
I am a western Maharashtra person and have the following thoughts:
well said Cosmicbliss. You will find that most of vidarbha resident don't have faith in their politicians and they know from experience that separate vidarbha movement starts picking up only before elections are due. And this could be the reason half of us are not *that* kin on separate state hood as of now. i.e. you don't see protests on streets (violent or peaceful)

Vidarbha can be developed only after it splits from maharashtra as in current form, state is too big to cared from Mumbai. most of the powerful politicians and lobbiest are from western part or marathwada. People will not talk about separate statehood if Nagpur as a city was developed at par of Pune. This could actually take some burden off from Pune and even Mumbai.
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Old February 20th, 2012, 12:12 AM   #43
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I do not live in India, but have started following economic development there (escecially Gujrat/Maharastra/ Andra Predesh/Karanataka). My attention specifically got attracted towards Mihan when it conceptualized around mid/late 90s.I have learnt on Vidarba from many different sources, that it aspires to become a province/state since it joined Maharastra.

Now back to the question of separate state of Vidarba and its development backlog.

Yes, people are responsible for everything in their own state. When it comes to economic development, they are responsible upto certail extent, main responsibility falls in the hands of governing body (muncilality/zila parishad state govt etc) governing the state.

In case of Vidarba, there is definitely injustse made against them. I understand Maharastra state has two big, Mumbai, and PUna. I recently learnt of a third town called Nasik, with which now politians are trying to form an economic golden triangle. With this in mind, Nagpur another big city in the state will never get its due, look in the historical development figures as well.

Similar situation happens around the world also. Economic development gets concentrated around few secters of the country/state/province.

Now, going back to Nagpur/Vidarba, what went wrong, why these places look different than the golden triangle? From what I have read, Vidarba is rich in natural resouces, Nagpur is a big city, has a University (a big one) with many educational institutions. Then why this happened? One can argue that there are no entreprenuers there. To me this auumption is wrong. Whenver there is an rntreprenuer, it will chase an opportunity, like water runs to find its way, wherever it leads him/her, even if they have to migrate.

One aspect to this issue coule be Natural Resouces. Look around the world where there are natural resouces, like "Natural Gas", "Petrolium", "Coal" etc. Do you see conflicts in those areas? Yes. There are few other places like USA itself, or Canada, or Australia, which have abundant natural resources, but they have wise / strong / responsible Govt to look after their natural resouces to avoind such a situation. Even look at Saudi Arebia Vs Iraq or Iran.

Back to Vidarba. I have learnt that there is Naxalite movement in the eastern part of Vidarba, is that because of "Natural Resouces" conflict? I have followed other area of India where there are lot of "Natural Resouces", most of them have presense of Naxalites. So, short term outlook of any Govt/authority will be to take out the resouces as quicky as possible / as much as possible, while doing so, the overall development of those regions are often overlooked. As said before, there are exceptions to this.

So in the case of Vidarba, is its Natuaral Resouces is playing agains its own interest? How come? It was learnt that there are many coal powered plants there (Coal is abundant in Vidarba), Govt now has assured water supply to them as well. This generated electricity is supplied to different places of the state (Mumbai and Puna?)leaving the populace of this region in dark without electricity. The water available is used up by the powerplants with no water left to the farmer to farm their land. Farmer suicides in Vidarba are well known in the world now. Again, unavailability of Water and electricity may not the main cause in all the suicides, but appears to play a major role here.

How a comman man of Vidarba can fight with this injustice? General populace is never responsible of such demise,
only the governing authority is responsible.

This could be just one possible aspect of separate Vidarba movement. There are many other such aspects which dictates the idea of separate Vidarba.

What I understand from what I have read so far is people do have genuine desire to get their land developed, a separate state is one of the option I think. I do not see this being politically motivated, not yet, unlike what I can see in the case of Telangana.

It looks like people of Vidarba appears to understand that a separate state is no free ticket to development. It appears that the development backlog of the region is main issue for separate Vidarba cause, I do not see (or could not find out any other major reason) any other major issue raised for this cause.

As far as language is concerned, there are several provinces/states in India which speak same language, may be a different dialect. So, two or more states can exist in India even their populace speak the same language.

Building just roads and bridges and subways and airports is not a development. I hear that people of Manarastra (even in these big cities) do not have proper access to drinking water, proper severage disposal system, proper garbage collection system, electricity for all, there are still villages not yet connected by all weather roads, let leave the medical health system there alone.....this is a complete failure of the government system itself.

Last edited by WorldVision; February 20th, 2012 at 12:29 AM.
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Old February 20th, 2012, 11:01 AM   #44
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I agree with WordlVision's thots.
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Old February 20th, 2012, 02:46 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WorldVision View Post
I do not live in India, but have started following economic development there (escecially Gujrat/Maharastra/ Andra Predesh/Karanataka). My attention specifically got attracted towards Mihan when it conceptualized around mid/late 90s.I have learnt on Vidarba from many different sources, that it aspires to become a province/state since it joined Maharastra.

Now back to the question of separate state of Vidarba and its development backlog.

Yes, people are responsible for everything in their own state. When it comes to economic development, they are responsible upto certail extent, main responsibility falls in the hands of governing body (muncilality/zila parishad state govt etc) governing the state.

In case of Vidarba, there is definitely injustse made against them. I understand Maharastra state has two big, Mumbai, and PUna. I recently learnt of a third town called Nasik, with which now politians are trying to form an economic golden triangle. With this in mind, Nagpur another big city in the state will never get its due, look in the historical development figures as well.

Similar situation happens around the world also. Economic development gets concentrated around few secters of the country/state/province.

Now, going back to Nagpur/Vidarba, what went wrong, why these places look different than the golden triangle? From what I have read, Vidarba is rich in natural resouces, Nagpur is a big city, has a University (a big one) with many educational institutions. Then why this happened? One can argue that there are no entreprenuers there. To me this auumption is wrong. Whenver there is an rntreprenuer, it will chase an opportunity, like water runs to find its way, wherever it leads him/her, even if they have to migrate.

One aspect to this issue coule be Natural Resouces. Look around the world where there are natural resouces, like "Natural Gas", "Petrolium", "Coal" etc. Do you see conflicts in those areas? Yes. There are few other places like USA itself, or Canada, or Australia, which have abundant natural resources, but they have wise / strong / responsible Govt to look after their natural resouces to avoind such a situation. Even look at Saudi Arebia Vs Iraq or Iran.

Back to Vidarba. I have learnt that there is Naxalite movement in the eastern part of Vidarba, is that because of "Natural Resouces" conflict? I have followed other area of India where there are lot of "Natural Resouces", most of them have presense of Naxalites. So, short term outlook of any Govt/authority will be to take out the resouces as quicky as possible / as much as possible, while doing so, the overall development of those regions are often overlooked. As said before, there are exceptions to this.

So in the case of Vidarba, is its Natuaral Resouces is playing agains its own interest? How come? It was learnt that there are many coal powered plants there (Coal is abundant in Vidarba), Govt now has assured water supply to them as well. This generated electricity is supplied to different places of the state (Mumbai and Puna?)leaving the populace of this region in dark without electricity. The water available is used up by the powerplants with no water left to the farmer to farm their land. Farmer suicides in Vidarba are well known in the world now. Again, unavailability of Water and electricity may not the main cause in all the suicides, but appears to play a major role here.

How a comman man of Vidarba can fight with this injustice? General populace is never responsible of such demise,
only the governing authority is responsible.

This could be just one possible aspect of separate Vidarba movement. There are many other such aspects which dictates the idea of separate Vidarba.

What I understand from what I have read so far is people do have genuine desire to get their land developed, a separate state is one of the option I think. I do not see this being politically motivated, not yet, unlike what I can see in the case of Telangana.

It looks like people of Vidarba appears to understand that a separate state is no free ticket to development. It appears that the development backlog of the region is main issue for separate Vidarba cause, I do not see (or could not find out any other major reason) any other major issue raised for this cause.

As far as language is concerned, there are several provinces/states in India which speak same language, may be a different dialect. So, two or more states can exist in India even their populace speak the same language.

Building just roads and bridges and subways and airports is not a development. I hear that people of Manarastra (even in these big cities) do not have proper access to drinking water, proper severage disposal system, proper garbage collection system, electricity for all, there are still villages not yet connected by all weather roads, let leave the medical health system there alone.....this is a complete failure of the government system itself.
World view, not just in Maharashtra or Gujarat or Karnataka, even in India's richest city/state and capital of India New Delhi all the things you say hold true.
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Old February 22nd, 2012, 09:08 AM   #46
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Old February 24th, 2012, 08:50 AM   #47
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Old February 28th, 2012, 12:31 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmicbliss View Post
I am a western Maharashtra person and have the following thoughts:

1. Development depends essentially on the will of the people at the top. Last 10-12 years, Maharashtra didn't have a CM who was development-oriented and that's the reason it's not doing too well. The people who govern should be committed to develop the State. Even if separate Vidarbha forms, it will be the same MLAs/MPs as there are today. Will they automatically become development oriented if a separate State forms?
2. What exactly is the difference between W. Maharashtra Marathi culture and Vidharbha Marathi culture? I am curious to know, no disrespect. As far as I have seen after travelling in Maharashtra, I haven't seen much difference. Accent difference cannot be taken to be a big thing, that is true for all States/countries, that the accent of people speaking the same language varies from place to place. What are the major differences?
3. On the ground level, how strong is the support for Vidarbha? I am asking because support for separate Telangana/Gorkha Land seems to be much more visible. Even my relatives from Nagpur aren't keen on separate Vidarbha. Given that 50 %+ of Vidarbha is Marathi-speaking, do the Maharashtrians really support having two Marathi speaking States?

Just some thoughts from my side.
You are a western maharashtra person, and without any exception, you are asking the same old questions. You should first research more about the issue before asking cliched things here.
One attempt though, just to explain exactly and only what you are asking -
1. "The people who govern should be committed to develop the State" - Correct. Do you understand the wholeness of that word - "State"?
"Even if separate Vidarbha forms, it will be the same MLAs/MPs as there are today." - Correct, but they will have power to govern State - Vidarbha State. They will have power to take decisions towards development of Vidarbha. They will have power to evenly distribute all money for development of whole region. In the whole political history of Maharashtra, power was concentrated in the hands of western Maha. leaders for most of the time. No, I am not saying power should be equally distributed because that won't happen in democracy. But, at least the ministers in highest positions should think of developing the whole region and not just their district..
In a separate state, whatsoever development happens, it will happen in Vidarbha. That's all!

2. There are differences in festivals and the way they are celebrated in these two regions. I can't name them exactly, but there are many rituals/traditions which are followed in Vidarbha, but not in Western Maha. There are differences in food and language dialect too. But cultural difference is not the sole point behind this demand.. it can be termed as 'one of many'.

3. All people who are aware of the step-motherly treatment of Maha Govt towards Vidarbha over last sixty years, hate to be in Maharashtra and strongly support cause of separate Vidarbha. All those people who don't, are either ignorant or not well informed. What is just needed is making them aware, and then no sane person would want to be in Maha anymore. The visibility you are talking about in Telangana/Gorkha Land is because at these places the cause has become a highly fueled political issue. On ground, people are still there who don't have any opinion about separate Telangana (I know it coz I am in Hyd for last 4 yrs).

Few questions to you and all others having same doubts:
1. What the hell is your (I mean all western maha people) problem if Vid wants to separate?
2. What exactly is the problem if there are two Marathi speaking states??
(read this first before replying to above questions)
3. Do you (and your leaders) really care if Vidarbha will develop or not post separation?? Because if you did, there wouldn't have been a need to form a separate state in first place...
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Old February 28th, 2012, 02:13 PM   #49
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Good points GrapeWine_
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Old February 28th, 2012, 03:03 PM   #50
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great post Grapewine..
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Old March 1st, 2012, 09:27 AM   #51
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Gosikhurd project cost soars up 36.52 times!!

Source - TOI

Anjaya Anparthi, TNN | Mar 1, 2012, 02.04AM IST

Quote:
NAGPUR: Facing inordinate delay in completion, the project cost of Vidarbha's ambitious project - Gosikhurd Irrigation Project - has now reached a new high of 13,596 crore, almost 36.52 times more than its initial cost.

Chief minister Prithviraj Chavan held a meeting to discuss the issues related to project-affected persons (PAPs) of Gosikhurd project at Mantralaya on Tuesday. Sources said that when the officials concerned informed Chavan and other ministers about increase in the project cost to 13,596 crore, they were left shocked.

An official from Vidarbha Irrigation Development Corporation (VIDC) told TOI that the revised estimation was sent to Technical Advisory Board of Water Resources Department (WRD), Nashik. The last revision of project cost was done on February 27, 2008, and it was 7,777.82 crore. In these four years alone, the project cost has been estimated to increase by 5,818.18 crore. The major reasons behind the increase are said to be rise in current schedule rates ( CSR) of civil work and tremendous increase in land rates. The project cost was 372.22 crore when it was approved on March 31, 1983. As per the initial approval, the project was to be completed in 1987.

After board's technical approval, revised proposal will be sent to the state government and then forwarded to Central Water Commission's Technical Advisory Committee. If it gets approval, the project will get the increased amount. The project was included under the Central government's Accelerated Irrigation Benefit Programme (AIBP). Therefore, the Centre bears 90% of the cost while the remaining 10% by the state government.

As per official sources, there was also discussion about the increased amount of 5,818.18 crore in the meeting. An official concerned said that the state government will have to bear the increased cost if it not approved by the Central government. This also came as a double shocker for the ministers as the state government had failed to release its 10% share from time to time.

As per data available from VIDC, the total expenditure on the project stands at 5,200 crore till date. Around 90% of the construction work has been completed. Due to delay in rehabilitation of the PAPs, the project has been failing to achieve its desired irrigation potential. As against the total target of 2,50,800 hectares, just 10,500 hectares has been irrigated till date from Tekepar and Ambhora lift irrigation projects and Right and Left Bank Canals.

At present, the project has potential to irrigate up to 40,886 hectares, the target of Phase-1 that was to be achieved in 2010-11. But the water level in the dam has not been increased due to delay in rehabilitation of PAPs. Currently, the water level in the dam is 237 metres.

If water level is increased to 239 metres, target of Phase-1 may be achieved. Therefore, Chavan has directed to prepare a package of 500-600 crore for resolving the issues of PAPs.
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Old March 4th, 2012, 03:47 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmicbliss View Post
I am a western Maharashtra person and have the following thoughts:

2. What exactly is the difference between W. Maharashtra Marathi culture and Vidharbha Marathi culture? I am curious to know, no disrespect. As far as I have seen after travelling in Maharashtra, I haven't seen much difference. Accent difference cannot be taken to be a big thing, that is true for all States/countries, that the accent of people speaking the same language varies from place to place. What are the major differences?
I am surprised to see / hear ignorance / apathy / denial of fellow Western Maharastran on cultures of Vidarba. We outsiders can see / feel and distinguish all these cultures and not the one like you.

Indeed, Vidabra need independence from rest of Maharastra.

I learnt from my colleagues visiting India, something called Zadapati art and culture of Vidabra, some of the links on it are below:

http://articles.timesofindia.indiati...e-ticket-sales

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/s...w/12102394.cms

http://www.spiceflair.com/zadipatti-...folk-broadway/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mala_Aai_Vhhaychy!
===> This is the movie in vidarba language.

Cosmicbliss ==> If you dont know about Vidarba, let us know....we will give you some lessons on it.
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Old March 4th, 2012, 05:17 PM   #53
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Vidarbha is a landlocked region, while western maharashta is connected with the coast. That's the reason why Vidarbha is poorer than western Mah. There's nothing else to it - just geography.

States like MP, Rajasthan etc. suffer from the same geographical disadvantages. Hence the whole Delhi-Mumbai industrial corridor hoo-haa so that the Northern/Central region can get quick access to the major port (Mumbai).

If Vidharbha wants to develop industrially, you guys should probably campaign for high-capacity infrastructure that will connect the region to the western part.
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Old March 4th, 2012, 08:34 PM   #54
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Vidarbha is a landlocked region, while western maharashta is connected with the coast. That's the reason why Vidarbha is poorer than western Mah. There's nothing else to it - just geography.

States like MP, Rajasthan etc. suffer from the same geographical disadvantages. Hence the whole Delhi-Mumbai industrial corridor hoo-haa so that the Northern/Central region can get quick access to the major port (Mumbai).

If Vidharbha wants to develop industrially, you guys should probably campaign for high-capacity infrastructure that will connect the region to the western part.
So is Delhi and the other parts of that industrial corridor. Your point is right about connecting to the sea ports with high capacity infra, but that is what all the Vidarbhaits were fighting for all the time. Poor guys....they generate electricity (Chandrapur STP) but that is fed to Mumbai/Pune (via very high voltage DC line, one of unique infra set in India couple of decades ago), leaving folks in Chandrapur area without electricity and water.

The whole point is that you your self are addressing, and without accepting the truth that the Govt (mostly the Govt formed my western folks which are centered and concentrated in the west region) has SCREWED up the development of this region.

And so is the argument, people of Vidarbha are fed up with rest of the Maharashtra, and want to separate.

It is good to see the development has started happening (though quite late), lets see if Govt can really keep this momentum.

Sometimes ignorance is not bliss.
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Old March 5th, 2012, 12:51 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marathaman View Post
Vidarbha is a landlocked region, while western maharashta is connected with the coast. That's the reason why Vidarbha is poorer than western Mah. There's nothing else to it - just geography.
What a funny statement I really don't understand what you want to say..

"Vidarbha is landlocked region while western maha is connected to coast"
so you mean vidarbha is a separate entity already?? according to current political map of india, "Maharashtra is connected to coast"!! I hope you get my point.

"States like MP, Rajasthan etc. suffer from the same geographical disadvantages"
Maharashtra is connected to coast right? what 'same geographical disadvantage' are you talking about?? why are you treating vidarbha as a separate state already? Had it been a separate state and had it been less developed, then your statement makes sense.
Otherwise it is utter nonsense. MP, Rajasthan both have their governments to take care of their development. does vidarbha have anything like that??

'That's the reason why Vidarbha is poorer than western Mah.'
you mean government of Maharashtra doesn't know:
1. that this region is away from coast and
2. it is part of Maharashtra
If they knew, and assuming that your 'connectivity with the coast' logic is correct, doesn't the govt know that extra effort has to be put in infrastructure to make this region as prosperous as its western counterpart?? who is the culprit??

Quote:
If Vidharbha wants to develop industrially, you guys should probably campaign for high-capacity infrastructure that will connect the region to the western part.
Industrial development is a far cry.. the maha govt is not even capable enough to fix the issue of farmer suicides. western maha farmers are enjoying oversupply of water pumps and farmers here are dying due to lack of water and irrigation..

now we don't give shit to what Maha govt can do and can not/will not do.
We just want our share of justice. We just want a separate state!
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Old March 5th, 2012, 01:35 PM   #56
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Facts!

I am planning to start posting facts which emphasize the step-motherly treatment of Maharashtra Govt towards Vidarbha, and thus support the cause of separate statehood.

All of them would be from various news/articles on internet. Starting with this one which I came across today.. I hope they are taken positively by fellow forum members. All can contribute, just follow the formatting. Once we have good collection, it will come handy to spread awareness.

Fact #1
Source: Business Standard
Quote:
Vidarbha, comprising Nagpur and Amravati divisions, is known for cotton and oranges. Maharashtra has the largest area under cotton, but only three per cent of the land is irrigated. Gujarat, on the other hand, produces much less cotton but has almost 50 per cent area under irrigation.
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Old March 5th, 2012, 05:40 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marathaman View Post
Vidarbha is a landlocked region, while western maharashta is connected with the coast. That's the reason why Vidarbha is poorer than western Mah. There's nothing else to it - just geography.

States like MP, Rajasthan etc. suffer from the same geographical disadvantages. Hence the whole Delhi-Mumbai industrial corridor hoo-haa so that the Northern/Central region can get quick access to the major port (Mumbai).

If Vidharbha wants to develop industrially, you guys should probably campaign for high-capacity infrastructure that will connect the region to the western part.



I agree with some of the views of GrapeWine.I'm born n brought up in Nagpur and living in pune now since last six years.In my personal opinion the western mah. pudhari(leaders) dont want a developed vidharbha region so that they could put the funds and packages released by central govt 4 developmnt of vidharbha farmers in their pockets or 4 devp.of their own districts like nashik,baramati or pimpri chinchwad.
The leaders of their own parties are not given power if they get elected in vidharbha.
  • The literacy of Nagpur is more than puna city(wikipedia figs.)still it is called
    backward.
  • We knw that energy is the basis of devp. of any country.Vidharbha produces 65% of the total energy consumed in mah.Still people suffers 12hrs of load shedding while small district like baramati is load sheddin free.
  • Vidharbha has most of the natural resources like iron ore,manganese,coal in abundant but industries are set up in western mah.
  • They(leaders) dont understand this kind of injustice with vidarbha & konkan will lead to failure of economic devp.of state and it can be seen now as Gujarat lead by Modi is taking over Maharashtra in terms of devp. slowly.Many big autombile and manufacturing firms are shifting to Guj.
    If this continues Mah. will loose its crown of most devp.state to guj. one day.(M not in favour of seperate Vid. though.)
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Old March 5th, 2012, 07:51 PM   #58
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It will make more sense if you also mention why you are not in favor of separate Vidarbha even after knowing all this..
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Old March 6th, 2012, 07:58 AM   #59
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Old March 6th, 2012, 07:59 AM   #60
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