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Old March 19th, 2016, 12:26 PM   #61
NewcastleStu
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Someone in the Printworks has commented on the application saying it shouldn't be any taller than the Printworks at 7 storeys. I'm sure the developers won't mind lopping off 19 storeys.
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Old March 19th, 2016, 12:33 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andym View Post
It's terrible-2 wrongs don't make a right. Nothing unique , no signs of street interaction, generic clad and externals, incongruous setting.
There actually are plenty of signs of street level interaction.

What do you mean 'two wrongs don't make a right'?
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Old March 19th, 2016, 12:49 PM   #63
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27 Rutherford Street | Newcastle | 26fl | Proposed

Not in my view-I don't see it enhance the street at low level. By "two wrongs" I was referring to your criticism of Stowell St not enhancing the walls- this would do exactly the same.
Tall buildings in the UK only reach a level of quality when they have an economic necessity/rationale that gives the level of investment to give a good finish and also give a return on the building. I just don't think this exists outside of London and Manchester at present-and Manchester is currently building some of the ugliest structures around. Consequently you get a "budget" build and design- like Cale Cross or the old Welbar. Is there really an unmet demand in Newcastle for what this provides- 60m2 one bed roomed rabbit hutches?
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Old March 19th, 2016, 12:56 PM   #64
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ok, hang on. The current level of street interaction is a bunch of graffiti strewn iron shutters. Starbucks, Pret and Yo Sushi aint forming an orderly queue to move in. The argument about enhancing the environs around the city walls sailed a long long time ago. It is faced on one side by the perma-stained Citygate block and on the other by Stowell Street's dumpsters and rat hostels. It hasn't been well loved.

Is there an unmet demand? Don't ask me, ask the companies potentially throwing millions of pounds in our direction for that reason.
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Old March 19th, 2016, 01:00 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by thenorthumbrian View Post
I am glad Newcastle hasn't gone down the road of tall for tall's sake.
There is nothing necessarily great about tall buildings and having a few dotted around a city doesn't make that city "big". Many of the great cities of Europe and the world don't have any skyscrapers at all.
Manchester has one of tallest building in the UK and many of the people of that city voted it one of the most hated buildings there.
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co....gested-9813531
I was once talking to a friend of a friend from Manchester, and we got talking about the city centre. He almost seemed offended when I said I didn't mind Beetham Tower. They really do seem to despise it. Me and the mrs went to a bar in there on the 23rd floor. The views were spectacular. As were the prices. However, looking at it again on those pictures, it really isn't all that pretty and I'm sort of going off it. Apparently it makes a really odd noise in the wind too.

I think to be fair to Newcastle though, I do actually think it has quite an impressive skyline for a low rise city, but still, I think it could be better with a few tall buildings dotted around.
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Old March 19th, 2016, 01:07 PM   #66
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I'm entitled to my view- I don't subscribe to "something is better than nothing" as a rationale. If the external quality or street level was better (to my eye) I would view it on merit-and I certainly don't see the chains you mention as my idea of a good thing. The target market is graduates or rich students and there seems to be plenty of rented property around (just by scanning the property Journal today). Each to their own.
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Old March 19th, 2016, 01:21 PM   #67
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I agree about the chains, but that's where we're heading. I would love this plot to be a natural extension to Chinatown, but if that isn't happening then...what? I actually am an exponent of something is better than nothing - on that plot we have nothing, and this - in my opinion - is an excellent 'something'.

But yes, we're all entitled to our view, and what a tedious place it would be if we were all in a state of permanent agreement!
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Old March 19th, 2016, 01:30 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tameracingdriver View Post
I was once talking to a friend of a friend from Manchester, and we got talking about the city centre. He almost seemed offended when I said I didn't mind Beetham Tower. They really do seem to despise it. Me and the mrs went to a bar in there on the 23rd floor. The views were spectacular. As were the prices. However, looking at it again on those pictures, it really isn't all that pretty and I'm sort of going off it. Apparently it makes a really odd noise in the wind too.

I think to be fair to Newcastle though, I do actually think it has quite an impressive skyline for a low rise city, but still, I think it could be better with a few tall buildings dotted around.
That's interesting, visitors to a place might well view something differently from people who have to live with these things.
I think I might be going a bit tall-building-o- phobic with regards to Newcastle in the last few days after looking at pictures & opinions from elsewhere.
This building in London seems to be not just ugly but dangerous to be around
http://www.pfmonthenet.net/article/1...molition-.aspx
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Old March 19th, 2016, 01:33 PM   #69
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It's terrible-2 wrongs don't make a right. Nothing unique , no signs of street interaction, generic clad and externals, incongruous setting.
I appreciate architecture is always going to be subjective however personally I think it looks great.

It is certainly unique in terms of buildings in Newcastle, they could have just knocked up a standard non-descript midrise apartment block the likes of which can be found around the boulevard and quayside (not to mention every regional city in the UK) or heaven forbid more student accommodation.

The cladding appears to be relatively high quality to me. Contemporary? yes, generic? I wouldn't say so. What type of cladding do people expect to see in a contemporary high rise? The building is relatively sympathetic to the existing street; it is heavier on the bottom, with brick used on the lower floors to reflect the materials used in the adjacent buildings, and lighter on the top to reduce the impact on the skyline, with a slender form and steel and glass to the upper floors.

In terms of street level interaction, perhaps it would have been preferable to have additional uses at ground floor though I'm not sure how important that is in this area in particular. It is good to see however the developers are advocating some significant aesthetic improvements to the street including high quality paving and landscaping which will transform it from what is essentially an enclosed and abandoned back street into an inviting entrance and frontage onto the boulevard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NewcastleStu View Post
Someone in the Printworks has commented on the application saying it shouldn't be any taller than the Printworks at 7 storeys. I'm sure the developers won't mind lopping off 19 storeys.
I struggle to understand why this objector believes the Printworks should be used as some arbitrary height limit, they haven't even suggested they are concerned about overshadowing or anything to support this position. Why choose to live in an urban environment and then complain about it being built up? If only we followed this logic a couple of hundred years ago and the Printworks itself wouldn't even exist... Imagine if New York had had this approach in the 1800s, we could have had a dull plateau of 7 storey buildings rather than the dramatic and instantly recognisable skyline we see today.

I'm not advocating we try to emulate Manhattan, though there is value in a city having a recognisable skyline and focal point for the urban area, however, regardless of its height, I believe this building represents good quality architecture, in a sustainable location which provides much needed residential accommodation. It would be interesting to find out what exactly those who object to this would prefer to see in its place?
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Old March 19th, 2016, 02:23 PM   #70
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Anyone that thinks Newcastle doesn't have a legacy of building 'big' or 'tall' is surely misguided.

The whole notion of Newcastle using its architecture as a means to project power and growth has been present and is the cities reason for being. In fact, it is arguable that Newcastle as a place has consistently set the trend as well as containing the best and bravest examples of investment into the city.

Hadrian's Wall
Castle Keep
Town Walls (bigger than most at the time)
St. Nicholas Cathedral- name a more structurally elegant lantern tower anywhere in the world
Grainger Town
Central Station + HLB
Tyne Bridge
Central Motorway and adjoining buildings
The Metro
St James Park extension.
The Quayside- although both failed through inactivity and being let down by the Gateshead side sum total of an Art Gallery, Music Hall and hotel of development.

Think of how the city has had the bravery in the past and how recently it seems that NCC's balls have dropped off.

People perturbed by the proximity of historical artefacts to the proposals baffle me.

Is the tower going to harm the walls? Knock blocks off it?

Maybe its because it dominates the area. Well, get over it, your in a city. Old stuff and new stuff go together and generally, new stuff is bigger.

I expect the people bemoaning would also have refused to let them build the high level bridge, looming over those poor Elizabethan Quayside houses, or the amount of medieval buildings flattened for Grainger Town.

Bizarre juxtapositions of structure and old/new is what makes Newcastle dramatic and amazing.

This does not mean Rutherford should be passed without question, it should be scrutinised. It should be accepted that anything can be built anywhere in our city- but is it of the right function and quality to allow?
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Old March 19th, 2016, 02:30 PM   #71
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Some more elevations and visuals from the D&A Statement;
https://publicaccessapplications.new...ENT-818952.pdf















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Old March 19th, 2016, 03:04 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by No Opinion View Post
.

Hadrian's Wall
Really ?
Don't think the locals at the time had much say in the matter.
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Old March 19th, 2016, 03:09 PM   #73
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Hi All - its been a long time since I've posted here due to other commitments - however from time to time I still drop in to see what new projects are taking place. I was pleasantly surprised when I saw this ambitious proposal appear - so much so in fact that I feel the need to post my views.

First of all, as has been discussed, architecture is of course subjective and everyone has different opinions and views on what they believe is good architecture. For me, however, this development looks like an excellent prospect. The design of the tower at street level sits perfectly with the adjacent and surrounding structures. As it rises up above the current street level height the offset design and change of materials adds interest but also reduces the impact of its scale.

From the D&A statement it looks like high quality materials will be used for the finish and it seems a lot of detail has gone into the design; from the planning of the landscaping right up to the angled roof in order to hide the plant equipment.

As for the question of height then I see this as a non-issue in this area. Literally a few minutes walk you can find a new and modern area emerging, with quite significant massing compared to the rest of the city centre - Downing Plaza, Science Central, SJP, Strawberry Place. Some of this is already built with others to follow which are in planning or approved.

This building can sit as a landmark for this new area - a focal point for Science Central, Downing Plaza, St James, Strawberry Place & the boulevard itself - which in itself has a large proportion of new buildings.

As an upcoming area this is an ideal opportunity to show how ambitious the city is in the modern era; a way to welcome strong economic investment; a way to attract and retain professionals; a way to act as a catalyst for further investment in the surrounding areas and in particular Science Central and along the boulevard (Redheugh through to St James).

We have to understand that if we want to the city to move forward and progress then this kind of large scale economic investment will be necessary. Things always change and I think its better taking an opportunity like this that will bring work and investment to the area and show ambition than accepting mediocre small to medium scale projects that bring no character or vision to the city.
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Old March 19th, 2016, 08:37 PM   #74
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My concern for this building would be the upper section. I'm not sure but the break in the windows doesn't make it look as clean as a building that would be fully glazed would. The close ups of the ground and lower floor look very good, but I think a mix of having restaurant/cafe/bar/coffee shop/retail unit would open it up a bit more.
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Old March 19th, 2016, 09:16 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thenorthumbrian View Post
Really ?
Don't think the locals at the time had much say in the matter.
Hadrian's Wall was built as a show of power to both the subjects and adversaries of ancient Rome.

It is also the reason Newcastle exists.

Newcastle is not noddyland of pretty English towns, red telephone boxes and other lip service elements. It was a frontier city to an area of lawlessness. Our architecture and urban design should always understand and reflect on its history.
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Old March 19th, 2016, 09:22 PM   #76
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I like it in the above renders. This one really needs to happen. Come on NCC, show us you aren't as backwards thinking as we all think you are and get it approved.
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Old March 19th, 2016, 09:35 PM   #77
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It's hard to get a feel for the upper floors in the planning docs as they make them seem translucent. If there are high quality materials used then it should look very impressive, but if changes start to creep in, they switch to poor standard rainscreen cladding and cheap glazing then it could be a real eyesore.

In terms of height this seems to fit in a bit better than expected when most of the views are taken into account , except from charlotte sq where it has an incongruous, looming presence.
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Old March 22nd, 2016, 09:02 AM   #78
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I have nothing against ambition, however such a dramatic standalone building should be aesthetically pleasing IMO.



Perhaps a few changes along these lines?



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Old March 22nd, 2016, 12:47 PM   #79
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Yeah, I'm not a big fan of the overhang. Mainly because of the Beetham Tower / Hilton, Manchester.
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Old March 22nd, 2016, 10:21 PM   #80
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Agreed. Number 2 would cut it for me.
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