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Old November 13th, 2007, 06:38 PM   #2021
gothicform
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i think the walkie talkie will surprised and amaze everyone from what ive seen of the planning documents. i think its a building that people are seriously underestimating but those who see it up close most of all will love it. i predict itll be as much an icon as swiss re is.
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Old November 13th, 2007, 09:10 PM   #2022
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completely agree. iv always liked the look of the tower, and think visitors to london will definately be impressed when they see it (as will i be), as they are with swiss re. It is a strange building, which is why i think i like it as much as i do.
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Old November 13th, 2007, 09:36 PM   #2023
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gothicform View Post
i think the walkie talkie will surprised and amaze everyone from what ive seen of the planning documents. i think its a building that people are seriously underestimating but those who see it up close most of all will love it. i predict itll be as much an icon as swiss re is.
I hope you're right about this, I really do. For the moment it's still not a project that I'm particularly looking forward to seeing built with any great expectation. That's not to say I'm totally opposed to it, I just still can't make my mind up about it, that's all. I think you may be right that up close it will be a grande sight, I'm just a bit worried about how it will affect the look of the cluster as a whole. But I've heard posutive things about it from you and Mr Fox and you guys usually know what you're talking about so I guess I'll give it a chance at impressing me.

Remind me again someone, it's hard to keep track: how far ahead is this project? Is it a speculative build, what are it's chances of going up and when??
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Old November 14th, 2007, 03:33 PM   #2024
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I do not wish to suggest that we re-ignite the debate about whether or not we like/dislike this proposal.....but....there is a fundamental difference with this design compared with the rest of the city, and it is a difference which will make it stand out in a bad way. It is bigger at the top than at the bottom and as a result it is simply too inconsistent with the rest of London's architecture. Thankfully, there are few comparable buildings, but the one that springs to mind is the Ark. It was and is a quirky and ridiculous-looking piece of architecture, and we are about to have it repeated, at 30x the size, slap-bang in the middle of the City. Disaster.
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Old November 14th, 2007, 03:49 PM   #2025
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I think you are being far too romantic with the current state of the skyline in this part of London. There is no fragile forest of pointy spires about to be crushed by this development. From the angle that you will see this building's wider top the City just looks like a big bulbous mass of a mish mash of styles ALREADY!
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Old November 14th, 2007, 05:33 PM   #2026
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Agreed, potto!

SwissRe is a great building with a fresh approach towards architecture but when every highrise tries to reinvent the wheel, it will just look dull!

@ jorgen: sure, there are a lot of "maybe"s in my comment. The German "Building Code" has a section (§33 BauGB) which sets out that new buildings should take the surrounding buildings and the overall style into account. That was the point where I was coming from. Sure, it doesnt make sense to discuss building that are about to be demolished already but maybe (sorry, the word again), the city should check how many too excentric buildings it can absorb.

122 Leadenhall and Bishopsgate tower will "strech" the whole skyline but the new 20FS will be a monster that will unbalance the new ensemble. The "minerva" building would have been a great addition in getting the whole skyline a more classy and "timeless" design.
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Old November 14th, 2007, 07:40 PM   #2027
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Quote:
Originally Posted by potto View Post
I think you are being far too romantic with the current state of the skyline in this part of London. There is no fragile forest of pointy spires about to be crushed by this development. From the angle that you will see this building's wider top the City just looks like a big bulbous mass of a mish mash of styles ALREADY!
I hope I am romantic!
That mish mash comes from the anarchic lack of planning that has partly enabled the dynamism of London's development, of which I am a big fan, so I know I shouldn't complain when it "throws up" a dud (in my opinion, anyway!). But I am so much more impressed with the way that Heron, 122LH, Bishopsgate, Shard all manage to somehow be consistent yet very individual. 20FC is individual, alright, but just doesn't seem to be making an effort at coherency.
I would still prefer this to be a flagship tower in another city, rather than one of the cluster in London.
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Old November 14th, 2007, 07:50 PM   #2028
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Looks fine to me

image hosted on flickr
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Old November 15th, 2007, 12:17 AM   #2029
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Why must this bastard be so FAT? Loose some weight please... get a slim line!
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Old November 15th, 2007, 12:57 AM   #2030
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Surley because they require a set amount of floorspace and can't get away with going taller. Personally I like this, even if it's only to see the back of the existing tower.

MG
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Old November 15th, 2007, 01:09 AM   #2031
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personally i think its a great design, at least its not like that toilet looking thing near the world trade centre. At least the buildings increase in floorplate size is far smoother and less brutal. all in all it looks gr8

perhaps people would like the tower more if it were slightly closer to the main cluster, that way it would be more integrated and less of a 'sore thumb'
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Old November 15th, 2007, 01:30 AM   #2032
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20FC will surprise most of you. The building will offer visitors to the City something to talk about, just like Swiss re. From the renders of 20FC, standing at its base and looking up is an amazing sight. Its quite like looking up at a cliff that arcs over. You just feel the urge to travel up and look at the people down below.

Another great feature is the sky room at the top of the building which offer fantastic views over the London and along the Thames.

Sooner or later people will grow to like it, its a symbol of brave new future in architecture for London after a quite mixed 20th century.

NB: I believe a lot of the demolishion is being hampered by asbestos in the current building.
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Old November 15th, 2007, 01:35 AM   #2033
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Totally agree. Seconded
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Old November 15th, 2007, 10:24 PM   #2034
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr-JosE View Post
20FC will surprise most of you. .
I'm surprised already, it's called shock...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr-JosE View Post
Sooner or later people will grow to like it, its a symbol of brave new future in architecture for London after a quite mixed 20th century.
There's nothing brave above it. It's ugly and misplaced. Just because the architect says its wonderful, doesn't make it so. If this gets built, then the Tower of London should be brought back into operation with the architect being the first client.

Re the rendering earlier and others, it's always interesting that shots of 20FC from across the Thames are from some point in mid air. Why not show shots from ground level on the south bank? The reason is obvious. What is a ugly building from mid air shots will look totally hideous from ground level.
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Old November 16th, 2007, 12:47 AM   #2035
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Theres loads of renderings of this tower, including from the south bank so if your that bothered why don't u seek them out rather than take the easy option and criticise the scheme.

You cant see the tower from ground level from the southbank anyway due to the simple fact is you cant see the tower from ground level due to the various 8-10 storey buildings on the north of the thames & the natural slope of the north bank.
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Old November 16th, 2007, 01:00 AM   #2036
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...if you really believe when standing on the South Bank and looking across the river at this building in the future that, magically, this hideous 36 floor tower will be obscured by 8-10 story buildings, fair enough.

I've not seen one single render of this building from ground level on the South Bank. Can anyone point to one please? It won't change my opinion, it'll just illustrate it perfectly.
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Old November 16th, 2007, 01:09 AM   #2037
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What londonlad means is from the South bank we will only see the top 26-28 floors, rather than the full 36 ...so it will appear stumpier than it actually is.

This image was found in about ten seconds from goth's website, showing the tower from Southbank: http://www.skyscrapernews.com/pictur..._pic5.jpg&no=5
There's a night time version too, but i think that's the old, taller scheme.
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Old November 16th, 2007, 01:11 AM   #2038
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Yes it really is hideous it really detracts the beauty of Plantation place & all the other buildings that line the north bank. BTW most of the renderings are from ground level when viewed from the southbank anyway- but you know that already as you are that concerned that you have actually bothered to look at the planning documents or in case you haven't there's plenty of links further back in the thread.
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Old November 16th, 2007, 01:45 AM   #2039
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the neauty of plantatin place...is nothing special really....even when viewed in person. if anything plantation place detracts from nearly every other building the in the city cluster with its wannabe/stunted facade
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Old November 16th, 2007, 01:53 AM   #2040
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I'm no fan of Plantation Place, but this will be worse.

Gherkin: Thanks for the link. I am familiar with that image already, which is not taken directly across the river from the building, but further up the Thames.

There has not been one single render that I know of which shows what this building would be like if you stood directly opposite it on the South Bank. If such a render existed, it would show the truly dreadful bulk of this building.
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