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Old June 29th, 2011, 02:51 AM   #201
massp88
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What will Dallas do once the LBJ is done and then a few years down the road, the road is at capacity again? Seems like money would be better spent establishing a useful transit system.
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Old June 29th, 2011, 04:31 AM   #202
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What will Dallas do once the LBJ is done and then a few years down the road, the road is at capacity again? Seems like money would be better spent establishing a useful transit system.
Thy are already doing that with the DART light rail system which is currently in expansion mode. There are even plans for the Cotton Belt line to be built which will connect some of the largest suburbs without having to go through downtown.
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Old June 29th, 2011, 04:34 AM   #203
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Dallas is expanding its rail system like no other North American city I'm aware of.
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Old June 29th, 2011, 04:39 AM   #204
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Dallas is expanding its rail system like no other North American city I'm aware of.
Denver and Salt Lake City also expanding their system at a relatively fast pace as well. DART, UTA, and RTD are pretty similar in this regard.
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Old June 29th, 2011, 04:39 AM   #205
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punk, you're money!
No prob!

I'd love to see that planned supertall go up!
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Old June 29th, 2011, 04:45 AM   #206
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Denver and Salt Lake City also expanding their system at a relatively fast pace as well. DART, UTA, and RTD are pretty similar in this regard.
I suppose I should have specified light-rail. Transport Politic says that Dallas has the largest light-rail network in the US now with 72 miles in operation and another 14 u/c.
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Old June 29th, 2011, 06:37 AM   #207
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Quite awesome indeed

[QUOTE=desertpunk;80495600]Hmmm..

Let's review:

The Spire Dallas

image hosted on flickr

Spire Dallas, aerial rendering, with rendering of Museum Tower (currently under construction) and future supertall immediately across from Museum Tower on the north side of the Woodall Rodgers Urban Park bskys the limit2, on Flickr

But you want to know what is even more awesome? The prime area of central Dallas is on the move as it will be located in the future even further north of this area to just out of the picture to the right. While this development here is a result of the Dallas Arts District, future development will tend to concentrate around a new commerical shopping district taking shape along a sliver from The Spires depicted in this picture, along the eastern edge of Uptown, along the edge of CityPlace (including West Village) and along the Knox / Henderson area.
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Old June 29th, 2011, 07:32 AM   #208
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This development will anchor an Arts District and a new Commercial Shopping District

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Anyone heard anything more on the Spire development for downtown ?
You know, you can only pet a dog for so long before its going to expect you to feed it something. So far, the Spire development has just been a lot of pretty pictures. So, it's going to have to start building something pretty soon as all those pictures are quickly starting to look like pie in the sky. When they do decide to build, they should start off with the retail in my opinion. They should just have faith in this. Similarly, when West Village was built, no one expected anything from it.
See, the city government of Dallas is the problem here the way they have tried building just any type of retail all over the place in Central Dallas. Things don't work that way. Back when downtown Dallas was the prime commercial shopping district in the whole Dallas area, the department stores tended to be built in the same area in and around Main Street:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joske's
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titche-Goettinger_Building
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neiman_Marcus_Building
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanger-Harris (Located close by at Pacific and Akard).
As there was other retail located throughout downtown Dallas during the sixties, it all existed relative to the main commercial shopping district in and around Main Street. As central Dallas no longer has a commercial shopping district, retail has been in a state of chaos as city government leaders have been trying to get it built all over the place. But that is changing as it looks like a commercial shopping district is forming on the west side of Central Expressway along the sliver I mentioned above extending from the Spires all the way north past the Henderson / Knox area.
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Old June 29th, 2011, 07:43 AM   #209
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If your thing is retail, all I can tell you is that few if any major retail developments are happening anywhere in the US. Summerlin Mall in Las Vegas? Stalled. Xanadu-or whatever they're calling that $2 billion rusting hulk in the Meadowlands these days? On hold. Boulevard Place in Houston? Being built piecemeal and with much of the project on hold. If any of the Spires goes up, it'll be rental apartments and maybe something like a Whole Foods. But everything else will take time...
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Old June 29th, 2011, 08:05 AM   #210
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If your thing is retail, all I can tell you is that few if any major retail developments are happening anywhere in the US. Summerlin Mall in Las Vegas? Stalled. Xanadu-or whatever they're calling that $2 billion rusting hulk in the Meadowlands these days? On hold. Boulevard Place in Houston? Being built piecemeal and with much of the project on hold. If any of the Spires goes up, it'll be rental apartments and maybe something like a Whole Foods. But everything else will take time...
Yes, but this isn't downtown Dallas I'm talking about. However, it is the prime real estate in all of Dallas - Fort Worth! Take a pencil and draw a lot of lines crossing over from the prime retail in Highland Park, from the prime office developments in Preston Center and Uptown, and from the prime residential high rise community in Turtle Creek and one ends up somewhere in the vicinity of Lemmon Avenue which happens to be a mecca for the selling of luxury cars. Now, push this prime area out a little more because of height limits caused by the close proximity of Love Field and the way its runways are positioned, and one finds themselves smack dab in the middle of City Place and West Village. Is it any wonder that this development is succeeding? Add in the new terminal that will be opening soon at Love Field and I think this will make CityPlace the new prime area in central Dallas. As the commercial shopping districts dominate the office developments in Dallas, this area here should develop into a new commercial shopping district.

Last edited by Mister Nifty; June 29th, 2011 at 08:10 AM.
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Old June 29th, 2011, 08:28 AM   #211
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What project is the "Supertall" in the rendering?
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Old June 29th, 2011, 10:45 PM   #212
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What project is the "Supertall" in the rendering?
He doesn't say, but there is yet another rendering which he posted depicting the Hall tower just to the south of those two.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/5294940...n/photostream/
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Old June 30th, 2011, 03:03 AM   #213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister Nifty View Post
He doesn't say, but there is yet another rendering which he posted depicting the Hall tower just to the south of those two.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/5294940...n/photostream/
Interesting.
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Old June 30th, 2011, 03:10 AM   #214
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There is rumor that a supertall building might be built by the Musuem Tower called 2121 Flora.

http://www.planbdevelopment.com/pages/flora.htm

Last edited by jonathaninATX; June 30th, 2011 at 08:14 AM.
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Old June 30th, 2011, 03:26 AM   #215
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Farmers Market Square



http://blogs.dallasobserver.com/unfa...lot_in_fro.php





Quote:
On and off in recent years there have been several attempts to fill that vacant lot across Marilla from the Dallas Farmers Market, and each plan has gone nowhere. Which is why I got interested when I saw this: This morning the Farmers Market TIF District Board of Directors met to discuss something called the Farmers Market Square project. I called the Office of Economic Development for more info, and Karl Stundins, area redevelopment manager, confirmed: Yup, this is supposed to go in that lot, fingers crossed.

Stundins says it's a 110-unit, 236,900-square-foot town-home project spearheaded by Houston developer Frank Liu of InTown Homes, who hopes to plant "moderately priced" for-sale properties on the lot -- which is more or less one of the centerpieces of the Downtown Dallas 360 plan.

"We worked with Brent Brown at the CityDesign Studio to look at the site plan and street elevations, and they did a lot of modifications to get to this point," says Stundins, who sent the conceptual renderings you see above and after the jump. "We also looked at Downtown Dallas 360 and looked at that site as more moderately priced. The land's expensive, which makes it harder to do for-sale at really, really inexpensive [prices]. But the units will be priced at the lower end of what's for sale downtown."

If Liu gets the TIF incentive, he would expect to begin building by the end of December, with completion date set for September 30, 2013.
http://blogs.dallasobserver.com/unfa...lot_in_fro.php
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Old June 30th, 2011, 08:11 AM   #216
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Are you sure Dallas needs a supertall outside the downtown core?
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Old June 30th, 2011, 10:38 AM   #217
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The project will be in the downtown core or close by it next to the Musuem Tower as you can see in the picture here.

The Musuem Tower is located right above the orange block.
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Old June 30th, 2011, 03:05 PM   #218
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Are you sure Dallas needs a supertall outside the downtown core?
I was reading an article about this today. As it exists, the prime real estate right now is about half of the old downtown Dallas and Uptown. If you are north of where the DART light rail line runs through downtown, you are a have. If you are south of it, you are a have not. In other words, if another supertall office building is never again built in downtown Dallas, it wouldn't surprise anyone.
In the future, all the supertalls will be built in either the Dallas Art's District, in Uptown, and in the area around CityPlace. So, I would expect some of the planned supertalls in downtown Dallas to be cancelled. Things have really moved on. For all practical purposes, downtown Dallas and Uptown Dallas are one downtown.
Here is a development of highrises and a supertall in Uptown:

http://www.harwooddallas.com/masterplan.php?b2=_sel
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Old June 30th, 2011, 04:23 PM   #219
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*Some* of the supertalls ? There are multiple supertalls proposed ? Why wasn't I told ?
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Old June 30th, 2011, 10:49 PM   #220
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*Some* of the supertalls ? There are multiple supertalls proposed ? Why wasn't I told ?
Well, what is a supertall? Fifty stories and higher?

Thing is, as developers are realizing right now that prime has moved north, they would be foolish to build anything highrise in downtown Dallas other than residential. The new downtown is Uptown. In fact, I think the question of what is prime is still in flux as it is now on the move relocating itself even further north of Uptown towards CityPlace. Sure, the Harwood development is prime. So is all that stuff by the Dallas Arts district. Preston Center is also prime, but it no longer has any property to develop. The very best place to be in the future will be around retail and that will be where Lemmon Avenue meets up with Central Expressway.

If I were Hall, I wouldn't build that skyscraper he has planned in the Dallas Arts District. Instead, I'd look to develop something over in the vicinity of Lemmon Avenue and Central Expressway. That way he can include retail with it and it will work!

See, the city of Dallas is backwards as, along with business districts, it has tended to build commercial shopping districts as well. Unlike other cities in the south, the retail takes precedence over office development. The same will be true of the central Dallas area.

Blame Dallas city government for any confusion. In the past, there wasn't any doubt about where the commercial shopping district was located in the Dallas area as department stores tended to concentrate along Main Street in downtown. That is how retail naturally gets built. Establish the prime commercial shopping district first and then retail will get built up around it. This is what happens around Malls when they get built as they tend to serve as anchors.

The city of Dallas, being extremely socialistic, is working to make every thing and every place equal and fair. But it will never work that way.

If retail is a perpetual beauty contest, one needs to establish who are the prettiest ladies. In the future, the prettiest lady will be located in the vicinity of CityPlace. After that designation is determined and the area is built up as the prime commercial shopping district, then retail should proliferate all over central Dallas.

This is how it really works.

Last edited by Mister Nifty; June 30th, 2011 at 10:55 PM.
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