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Newcastle Metro Area For Newcastle, N Tyneside, Gateshead, S Tyneside, South Northumberland


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Old April 9th, 2010, 02:31 AM   #101
AngerOfTheNorth
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Johnny's first point is the bit that bothers me, although presumably for different reasons. I'm not worried that an individual family will be picked on as I don't believe it will happen - rather that, as I've said, governments will use their abilities to block access to a website because of something it is "likely" to do in order to stop information they don't want to be leaked from getting into the public domain - like, as I've said, the expenses scandal. Nothing I've heard so far suggests that this ability wouldn't eventually be abused.

And we'll have to agree to disagree here Johnny - even if someone didn't steal a load of cars from a manufacturer and resold them, but instead copied a load and gave them away, the end result is the same. The manufacturer's market for the cars they've invested time, money and effort into shrinks, causing them to lose money.
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Old April 9th, 2010, 09:30 AM   #102
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Rushed law is bad law. This is the Video Recordings Act, or the Dangerous Dogs Act, all over again. And Feargal Sharkey can suck my fat one.
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Old April 9th, 2010, 11:01 AM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnypd View Post
DX, every new power like this used in sinister or unforeseen ways. anti-terrorism laws to monitor people's wheelie bins, stop and search rules used to ban photographers in public? all have happened. what you have pasted even refers to banning someone because they are "likely" (ie, not even having commited the act yet) to share info.

While Items 3 - a,b,c, i believe, refer to the sec of state's powers coming into effect in general, not how they will be applied to individual users. they are not just going to target people who are themselves harming "business or consumers", rather, if illegal downloading 'in general' is harming business (specifically if there is not a 70% drop in file sharing across the UK population a year from today) then the disconnecting powers come into play. but those powers could quite easily be used against a family in a suburban semi whose teenage kid owns a few dozen albums.

Anger - cars or walletts are individual items, you are denying someone of their possession by taking it. replicating a piece of copyrighted information is a fundamentally different activity. it's more akin to someone in a factory reproducing those cars or wallets, and then giving them away for free (so not even as bad as asian replica versaces or louis vuittons, for example). your analogy makes it sound as if file sharers are illegally breaking into people's computers and stealing MP3s from them so that the original owner loses their item.
Erm, ok, while I haven't read all the ins and outs of the clauses and stuff, 'a few dozen albums' equates to several hundred pounds. If you stole several hundred pounds from a shop, you would probably get a jail term. And I completely disagree about your separation of stealing something physical and something intangible like this. The comparison has been made to the architectural world, where there are robust laws to stop somebody stealing somebody else's design and replicating it elsewhere. Intellectual copyright mught not mean much to you, but it certianly does to all the architects, song-writeres, web-designers, novellists, artists etc etc. I think that to start differentiate between them and physical things like a wallet is totally missing the point, and missing the boat even more than the government. Don't get me wrong, I'm as guilty as everyone else when it comes to downloading illegal music and getting dodgy copies of software, but it doesn't mean that it's right. I don't think it will change a great deal in reality, people will still download a few sneaky ones and nothing will happen, a few people will download lots and get their internet cut off (Hardly the end of the world!), and it'll all blow over soon enough when technology advances to overtake legislation.
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Old April 9th, 2010, 02:10 PM   #104
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The trouble is though...what if you're out for a walk and you hear someone's music from a window?
You've not payed for that. Technically you're stealing it.
Intellectual property really doesn't equate to physical property one to one.
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Old April 9th, 2010, 04:05 PM   #105
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Quote:
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The trouble is though...what if you're out for a walk and you hear someone's music from a window?
You've not payed for that. Technically you're stealing it.
Really? By which law are you 'technically' stealing it? I could see your point if you were saying that the person whose window it was coming from was 'technically' broadcasting it without a licence, but that would still be on the extreme side of pedantic. For the people who have a problem with the legal side of this, do you think it is equally fine for someone to photocopy books and mass-produce the results?

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Intellectual property really doesn't equate to physical property one to one.
What do you mean by this? One wallet isn't worth one song? One nugget of gold isn't worth an artwork? The wind isn't worth an idea??!!?? Apples and oranges mate.
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Old April 9th, 2010, 05:15 PM   #106
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Rushed law is bad law. This is the Video Recordings Act, or the Dangerous Dogs Act, all over again. And Feargal Sharkey can suck my fat one.
Exactly - Laws should never be rushed - only perhaps in extreme circumstances BUT this is certainly not an extreme circumstance

Illegal downloading has been taking place for years now so taking the time with getting this law right wudnt exactly hurt would it - I suspect we will just get numerous abuses of the law, its kinda inevitable
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Old April 9th, 2010, 05:26 PM   #107
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Well, on the plus side, it looks like a few parts of the bill will be re-examined and straightened out in the next parliament. By that point there'll be more Tories and I'm really not sure whether I see that as being a good or bad thing on this front. Some Tories have shown themselves to have a genuine belief in civil liberties, however I can see plenty of them being happy to use new powers to shut down websites because they're exposing government corruption, are getting in the way of big business, show homosexuals/ethnic minorities/etc in anything other than an entirely negative light etc.
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Old April 9th, 2010, 06:17 PM   #108
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Quote:
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Really? By which law are you 'technically' stealing it? I could see your point if you were saying that the person whose window it was coming from was 'technically' broadcasting it without a licence, but that would still be on the extreme side of pedantic. For the people who have a problem with the legal side of this, do you think it is equally fine for someone to photocopy books and mass-produce the results?



What do you mean by this? One wallet isn't worth one song? One nugget of gold isn't worth an artwork? The wind isn't worth an idea??!!?? Apples and oranges mate.
Exactly, apples and oranges. All this stuff the anti-piracy folks come out with 'You wouldn't steal a dvd from a shop would you!'; it just doesn't apply at all, its totally different.

Photocopying books- yep thats totally fine.
Mass producing the results though- thats not what people generally do when they pirate music or whatever. People aren't downloading and selling albums anymore these days.

You're stealing the music as you haven't paid for it yet you're listening to it. Its no different to downloading a MP3.
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Old April 9th, 2010, 06:31 PM   #109
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Tyr, don't be soft. Listening to a song on the radio is entirely different. You don't have any control over it. If you download it illegally you can play it whenever you like and therefore have the artist's work without having to pay for it.

Anyway, you've made your viewpoint clear - musicians, artists, programmers, games manufacturers, designers etc shouldn't be paid for their work and therefore shouldn't bother. I just happen to disagree.
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Old April 9th, 2010, 06:48 PM   #110
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Quote:
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Exactly, apples and oranges. All this stuff the anti-piracy folks come out with 'You wouldn't steal a dvd from a shop would you!'; it just doesn't apply at all, its totally different.

Photocopying books- yep thats totally fine.
Mass producing the results though- thats not what people generally do when they pirate music or whatever. People aren't downloading and selling albums anymore these days.

You're stealing the music as you haven't paid for it yet you're listening to it. Its no different to downloading a MP3.
Ok, last point on this subject, which I'm not really that bothered about. Photocopying books (like whole books, not just a page or two for study etc) is not fine, whatever you say.
Putting a pirated track online for millions to download IS mass-producing it
And yes, it's completely different to downloading an MP3 illegally, if you don't see it, then, well, whatever, it's Friday, I'm off to have a drink!
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Old April 10th, 2010, 08:21 PM   #111
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We were taping the Chart Show in the 1970s and 80s. "HOME TAPING IS KILLING MUSIC!" the record lables cried then. But did it?

Downloading is simply the 21st century equivalent.
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Old April 10th, 2010, 08:36 PM   #112
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I would absolutely love it if people stop buying music as a protest to this bill - how class would it be if they were making less money after this bill than before, I would so love that
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Old April 12th, 2010, 02:32 PM   #113
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Quote:
Ok, last point on this subject, which I'm not really that bothered about. Photocopying books (like whole books, not just a page or two for study etc) is not fine, whatever you say.
Putting a pirated track online for millions to download IS mass-producing it
And yes, it's completely different to downloading an MP3 illegally, if you don't see it, then, well, whatever, it's Friday, I'm off to have a drink!
Thats not what most people who download do. There are some people uploading the music onto the internet but the majority are just downloading it.

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Originally Posted by AngerOfTheNorth View Post
Tyr, don't be soft. Listening to a song on the radio is entirely different. You don't have any control over it. If you download it illegally you can play it whenever you like and therefore have the artist's work without having to pay for it.
The radio is different, its cleared for transmission and all paid up and legal. Listening to someone else's music though...there you're getting into the type of ground as piracy.

Quote:
Anyway, you've made your viewpoint clear - musicians, artists, programmers, games manufacturers, designers etc shouldn't be paid for their work and therefore shouldn't bother. I just happen to disagree.
Thats a leap.

But anyway, you hit onto a good point. Artists are artists. I don't get paid for playing guitar but I like it so I do it anyway.
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Old April 13th, 2010, 02:51 AM   #114
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Here are my predictions for the general election seats in and around Newcastle.

Newcastle Central: Lib Dems

Newcastle North: Tories

Newcastle East: Labour

Newcastle West: Labour

North Tyneside: Labour

Tynemouth: Tories

I do think that the Lib Dems will come close on Newcastle North, and I think in Newcastle East and possibly North Tynesdie, the BNP will gain an increase in voters, shamefully.
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Old April 13th, 2010, 05:59 AM   #115
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Here are my predictions for the general election seats in and around Newcastle.

Newcastle Central: Lib Dems

Newcastle North: Tories

Newcastle East: Labour

Newcastle West: Labour

North Tyneside: Labour

Tynemouth: Tories

I do think that the Lib Dems will come close on Newcastle North, and I think in Newcastle East and possibly North Tynesdie, the BNP will gain an increase in voters, shamefully.

I agree with you on Tynemouth, North Tyneside and Newcastle East. I think the Lib Dems have no chance in Central, it's safe for Labour. As for the Tories winning Newcastle North from a vote last time of just 14%? Labour hold with Lib Dems a close second.

Newcastle West ceased to exist 27 years ago.
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Old April 13th, 2010, 10:47 AM   #116
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Plans to beef up Mayors
Apr 13 2010 by William Green, The Journal


THE prospect of Boris Johnson-style city mayors yesterday moved closer.

Labour promised to support new “city-regions” able to take on new transport, skills and economic powers – including more borrowing flexibility.

And residents would be able to trigger a referendum for directly elected mayors, with London-style powers.

That could see a Boris Johnson figure running the so-called “Newcastle Gateshead” area – with the Tories also pushing for elected mayors if they win the May 6 general election.
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Old April 13th, 2010, 11:22 AM   #117
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This short film appeared in yesterdays Grauniad....Milliband visits his South Shields constituency, patronises the working classes, patronises the Muslim community, argues with a disenfranchised middle class voter and disappears back to Whitehall...job done!


http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...iliband-labour

They seem to bang on about the 'new Asda' as proof of a recovering economy. They fail to mention it actually replaced the Asda on Coston Drive about half a mile away which now stands empty. I guess that wouldnt fit in with the New Labour recovery mantra though.

Edit: If you cant be bothered to watch it all, skip to 9:45 for some unexpected comedy courtesy of the local charvers....
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Old April 13th, 2010, 12:01 PM   #118
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Heh heh, thanks for the tip!
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Old April 13th, 2010, 12:25 PM   #119
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The idea of a Mayor might be a good idea, although to be honest I'm not certain of the pros and cons.

As for who wins which seats, I would have been confident of the Lib Dems making a strong push for Newcastle East, but we've heard so little from Wendy Taylor in this area. Plus what little you do hear has pictures of her looking frankly scruffy - it shouldn't matter, but when you look like you can't even be bothered to put on a smart blouse for your photo, you hardly put your best foot forward...
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Old April 13th, 2010, 04:55 PM   #120
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there is no Newcastle West; the area beyond the A1 is all within Newcastle North. The Tories will be third in all three Newcastle seats, the question is whether the Lib Dems can gain more than one. I think one is distinctly possible, and they are not far behind in the other two. Am saying no more than that.
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