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Old April 5th, 2018, 09:56 PM   #61
SAMOHT
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We need to build proper housing - like Englandís terrace housing- a proper house with a small garden - now we are getting Joseph and his multi-coloured dream coat pandokkies next to the N2. Too small in any case - shacks are already mushrooming around and attached to it
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Old April 6th, 2018, 03:11 AM   #62
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This is not Asia. And frankly I am glad they are not building all the horrible high-rises as in Asia.
Probably because you don't live in a township. I'd happily have a sea of grey high rises if it means people don't have to live in corrugated tin houses that burn down and use disgusting and dangerous chemical toilets. Only in SA will people allow half their city to live in poverty for the sake of aesthetics.
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Old April 6th, 2018, 08:38 AM   #63
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Nic, you are going to need to abseil down off that high horse soon.

This is governments domain, squarely. It is not people 'allowing' it.
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Old April 6th, 2018, 08:45 AM   #64
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That's just not true. It might need to be done through incentives but as I have indicated before mass rural migration in East and South East Asia was accompanied by mass construction of affordable housing by the private sector for its employees because they knew young and unskilled employees could not afford to live where they worked. Where are the thousands of affordable apartments or houses built by SA's largest employers? Apart from awful mining hostels, nowhere.

You are right that government has failed too by not providing the correct incentives or policy direction. But the SA private sector has also massively failed poor South Africans and cannot blame everything on government incompetence or corruption. This is partly a result of major SA companies being largely run still by white men who have poor understanding of poverty in SA and are more comfortable sitting in a London or NY restaurant than visiting a street market in Langa.
Um, so are most people Nic. Even residents of Langa.

Private sector (of any colour) needs the government to drive this, incentivize, allow partnerships to develop. Otherwise, it is just charity, and business is...business.

And btw, the top 10% is not all 'white men' anymore. Governments abject failure to create employment for the poor, combined with greed and corruption, has resulted in a very wealthy black elite - and they are even less likely to be seen strolling around Langa.

You will notice President Ramaphosa prefers the Sea Point promenade to the streets of Langa as well...
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Old April 6th, 2018, 09:22 AM   #65
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Nic, you are going to need to abseil down off that high horse soon.

This is governments domain, squarely. It is not people 'allowing' it.
B/S. I have consistently said government is also responsible for this failure. But it most definitely is partially the responsibility of the private sector and middle class in SA. Companies in SA sit on billions of dollars in cash reserves and show little to no interest in investing in disadvantaged areas of SA without government guarantees. You can say businesses across the world only care about profit and their bottom line but business in SA has been stunningly blase in its responsibilities to SA especially considering many of them became wealthy through exploiting black South Africans.

Ditto the millions of middle class South Africans (largely white, but increasing number of non-whites too) who go about their lives doing their best to ignore the uncomfortable reality that they earn 6x the median income of their countrymen.

So easy to just blame everything on the government isn't it?
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Old April 6th, 2018, 09:37 AM   #66
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And why do you think business would want government guarantees? Because without them the risk is way too high. Because govt has failed so miserably to create any sort of wealth for the bottom 50% of the population.
This is not discounting that many rich and middle class SAficans (again, black and white) have a blasť attitude to the admittedly disastrous living conditions for much of 'the rest' - but there are as many good and caring attitudes as well.
Unfortunately, without strong govt support, from policy support down to an actual functioning police service and other crucial services, private involvement is limited to charities, volunteering and donations.
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Old April 6th, 2018, 09:51 AM   #67
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This is true. But at the same time when the government does actually try to do what other countries have successfully done which is to force business to invest locally either by limiting access to foreign exchange or through various labour market regulations (e.g. what Japan and South Korea did), then SA business screams blue murder and immediately threatens to completely disinvest from the country.

You can't have it both ways. SA business cannot say it is government's responsibility to improve the economic situation in SA but at the same time do their best to resist all and any regulations or laws that would help poor South Africans participate in the economy.

SA business wants the country to be run like the UK or Australia, and the result is what we have now, where around 20% of the population successfully participates in this highly competitive and relatively well managed economy, and the rest are left out. It can't go on this way and the responsibility is with the people on top - government, the middle-class/elite, and big business - to ALL sort it out or they will discover that EFF support is not so limited after all.
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Old April 6th, 2018, 02:14 PM   #68
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Just my 2c on the matter.

Name a single corporate that "hoards" cash, I would love to see their books, it is very poor method of making money. Large companies make investment decisions through corporate planning that take years, they do not magically withdraw investment overnight because government said something they don't like, irrespective what sensationalist newspapers and political propaganda states. Only individuals/small investment firms do that.
https://www.blsa.org.za/news-and-art...ica-is-a-myth/

If you hav'nt noticed, the SA middle class is changing, it is not "largely white", as you indicate Nic. It is in fact MOSTLY black. Even in 2015, it was already more than double in favour of black South Africans. Even the number of high net individuals (millionaires) was 45 % black in 2015 and has long since exceeded that number. Also remember that SA middle class is tiny and also largely indebted, so now they have to fork out cash they don't have to satisfy the needs of tens of millions, just because the are considered middle class ?



https://businesstech.co.za/news/busi...-south-africa/

Townships are unserved for many reasons. One of the big ones is, that it is built on illegally occupied land. It is illegal for a municipality or private company to provide services and develop in large swathes of township areas. Irrespective of the amount of money you want to through at it. It is in many cases not even legal to remove them from that land.

Demanding that private sector contribute more also shows a lack of understanding of the true state of our economy and the environment business have to survive in. SA is listed 61 on the business competitive index. It is very expensive and you receive very little support as a business. Most businesses cannot afford to build housing for their staff nor will they be allowed or supported in such a decision by shareholders or government.

I don't know where any of you really stay, but since I moved to Cape Town, I noticed that there is a complete disconnect between its citizens and the rest of South Africa. The general mind set of: ah, so many white people in CPT lives in nice areas, thus white people are rich...so many black people live in townships in CPT, thus black people are poor. Just remember, CPT is a very bad example of what is happening in SA, both in terms of demographics, money, corporate, governance and any other thing you can think of.

This thread is derailing again. We need a separate discussion thread for densification and affordable housing. Can anyone arrange that ?
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Old April 6th, 2018, 11:24 PM   #69
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The number one solution to dealing with poverty is simple: Teach the poor people to stop BURNING PROPERTY of any kind! You build houses for the poor, they burn them. You build roads in the poor communities, they burn them with tires. You build them school, they burn them. You build them universities, they burn them. You build them clinics, they burn them. They burn farms. They burn churches. They burn, burn, burn and burn in order to get their way. So, unless and until the government teach the poor that burning South Africa is not going to bring foreign investors anytime soon.

Once again, people need to quit trying to tell other people what kind of building they can build with their money. Bravo to the Rockefellar and I hope more of these builders will ignore the crap about building unaffordable apartment. Enough with building anything near arson communities. Call me a snob, but I am tired of seeing our country being turn into a burning inferno by criminals disguising themselves at activists.
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Old December 9th, 2018, 03:51 PM   #70
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The site has been boarded up.



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Old February 2nd, 2019, 06:21 PM   #71
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Excavation well under way. Lots of movement on site today:

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Old February 4th, 2019, 02:32 PM   #72
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They are busy sinking piles, I suspect they may not be doing any basements (or excavation), they are probably using the parking in the existing 'Harbor Terrace' structure or atleast using that buildings ramp to create access to above ground parking.

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Excavation well under way. Lots of movement on site today:

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Old February 5th, 2019, 10:35 AM   #73
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I see that WBHO has been appointed main contractor judging from the sign posted.
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Old February 5th, 2019, 01:11 PM   #74
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At least with above ground parking in this area, it will give the building more height. I welcome it - nice- bling looking new build!
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Old March 1st, 2019, 11:24 AM   #75
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Site at the top left. This seems to be quite recent, but I'm not sure on the exact date. Via the Harbour Arch Facebook page:

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Old March 6th, 2019, 11:21 PM   #76
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Perhaps because they are either contributing to the Air BnB bubble, or are lying empty, as well as contributing to the inflation of prices
Not sure what these would be used for beside air bnb.
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Old March 7th, 2019, 08:10 AM   #77
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Or utilising the S12J tax benefit to create synthetic demand in a market that is otherwise under pressure (so yes, Air BnB/Aparthotels/Hotels with the intention of selling it at a yield to investors).

With the cost of land being so high, coupled with our onerous zoning regulations/slow turnaround at Council and high cost of lending, it's getting harder and harder to deliver affordable housing solutions in Cape Town..
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Old March 20th, 2019, 05:55 PM   #78
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Anyone know whatís going on with the piling at the rockerfeller? I thought piles were supposed to remain vertical?
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Old March 20th, 2019, 05:58 PM   #79
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Just seems a lot of demo work for piles that were sunk a month ago
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Old March 22nd, 2019, 02:01 PM   #80
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I am no expert but in my (laymans) opinion it looks like they are having to redo some of the piling

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Anyone know whatís going on with the piling at the rockerfeller? I thought piles were supposed to remain vertical?
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