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Old February 14th, 2015, 02:20 PM   #141
exocet
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A hunk of rotten meat is better than nothing to somebody who's starving, but that doesn't make it a good idea.
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Old February 14th, 2015, 03:03 PM   #142
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A hunk of rotten meat is better than nothing to somebody who's starving, but that doesn't make it a good idea.
We could always erect barbed wire fences. That would work
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Old February 14th, 2015, 03:19 PM   #143
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Park-and-ride's do not justify a station. One space generates one commuter per day, so unless it's a bloody massive car park, it's not going to be worth it.
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Old February 14th, 2015, 06:17 PM   #144
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Park-and-ride's do not justify a station. One space generates one commuter per day, so unless it's a bloody massive car park, it's not going to be worth it.
Well of course it would have to be massive. And it makes you wonder about places like Broadmeadow station.


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Old February 14th, 2015, 09:59 PM   #145
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My philosophy is that PnR belongs on the urban fringe where it acts as a collector for areas with low densities of walk-up patronage or feeder bus routes. For Sydney, I would not be adding PnR capacity inbound of Strathfield and similar distances from the CBD on other lines. I would also avoid putting multistory carparks at regional centres like Wollongong, although the boat has sailed on that one.

TransLink had a very sensible policy before the 2012 QLD election that park and ride capacity was not to be added anywhere within 10km of the Brisbane CBD, and there was a similar policy about avoiding it a certain distance from the coastline on the Gold and Sunshine Coasts (I think no closer than 5km west). They also tried to limit the amount of commuter parking in future activity centres places like Springfield Central (although this has failed because generally the feeder bus routes are still awful). All the PnR capacity added in recent years has been in the outer suburbs near major bus stops or at some outer suburban train stations.

The CBD approach roads are fairly clogged, so encouraging people to drive a fair whack of the journey length just to transfer onto a train for the last mile is a bit counterproductive. Things like the park n ride at Hindmarsh in Adelaide are not what you want to be pursuing.
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Old February 15th, 2015, 05:10 AM   #146
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I guess the best answer I can give to that is

a) its better than nothing
b) its likely to be just outside the boundary if they do have a congestion zone

Obviously you need more park and ride elsewhere, but where? Genuine question that. Likewise I don't know much about bus routes but Im wondering what could be made of an interchange.
The purpose of park and ride is eliminate congestion on roads leading into the city. It also eliminates the need for unviable feeder PT services to outer train stations and then transfers the load of passengers off main roads into the city onto grade separated services which are much better at dealing with high capacity patronage. Why on earth would you then put a park and ride IN the city after motorists would have to battle with King Street/Parramatta Road/any road into the city on a morning/afternoon peak, only for them to then clog up trains for the final few stops, reducing reliability?

If there is a station at Vic Park, a bus station would work very well though because George Street is going to be off limit for a lot of inner-west buses, and will probably give commuters on these buses a much faster journey to work AND then also reduce road congestion in the CBD.

As much as I think Waterloo needs a station in addition to Green Square (and not where the current airport link runs under Waterloo), a station in the inner west between Broadway and Newtown that leads into the city will be a boon for anyone who passes through this area by any mode.
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Old February 15th, 2015, 11:13 AM   #147
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Ok, let me throw that back to you.

Which extant or planned stations would you actually put a park and ride at?

It seems to me that there aren't many stations that are right next to a main artery. I mean locations that are actually going to be convenient for people to turn off a motorway and head for the train instead.

Strathfield is sorta close, except it depends on how you get off the M4 when its expanded.

Parramatta is ok, except that as it stands the rail journey is bordering on too long. And then Liverpool is right off the planet. The rail network forces you to stay in your car.

Lets see... what else.. Chatswood is a bit of a side track off the M2. Maybe, just maybe the SRT might put a station in Artarmon.

The whole point of having a near-city park and ride is to take people who would otherwise park in the city and encourage them to take the train from there on. Thus reducing congestion in the city. This would work hand in glove with a congestion charge. Yes I agree that Victoria Park is not perfectly situated and you don't want to encourage people onto Parramatta Road. (Not that many people would be doing this that weren't already driving into the city anyhow).

It would be nice to have a park and ride associated with the end of the Westconnex stage 1, but the problem there is that there's not train lines handy.

And there's a few others I could mention. They Sydney International airport station is actually located nicely at the end of the M5. Pity though its expensive.

Any other suggestions? If you're going to get people out of cars you have to satisfy the following conditions.

1) You can't give them more than another 20+ minutes to the city. They'll balk at that.
2) It has to be very accessible to a motorway or a major road.

Takers?

Edit: I've also suggested a park and ride at the corner of Oxford Street and Ocean Street. This would only happen if there were a station there as part of an eastern suburbs line branch. This could take traffic coming from the eastern suburbs and otherwise headed into the city. And it would go hand in glove with reducing the number of lanes in Oxford Street. And before you even say it, there isn't enough parking in Bondi Junction itself.

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Old February 15th, 2015, 12:07 PM   #148
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The aim is to make it easier for people to access public transport without their car to begin with, and prioritise access by car for where that is most feasible. We are talking about stations like Mulgrave or Holsworthy, not anywhere in the inner west.
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Old February 15th, 2015, 01:00 PM   #149
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Cudgegong Rd, Kellyville and Bella Vista will work like P&R stations on SRT. All right next to Windsor Rd and the last very handy for the M7
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Old February 15th, 2015, 01:04 PM   #150
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The aim is to make it easier for people to access public transport without their car to begin with, and prioritise access by car for where that is most feasible. We are talking about stations like Mulgrave or Holsworthy, not anywhere in the inner west.
Its 44 minutes from Holsworthy to Central. Why would anyone in their right mind park their car there and take the train when its simpler, more pleasant and usually faster to take their car to the city?
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Old February 15th, 2015, 01:09 PM   #151
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Cudgegong Rd, Kellyville and Bella Vista will work like P&R stations on SRT. All right next to Windsor Rd and the last very handy for the M7
Those will be well used, but most of those journeys will be to stations along that line. This started with a conversation about congestion on inner west roads and in the city itself.

My original conjecture was that a park and ride at Victoria Park would add little to congestion on Parramatta Road and would take some congestion out of the city. But only if there was a congestion fee in the city as well.

What you ideally need is a few well located stations west of Strathfield with much faster train services between them and the city and then a park and ride to go with them.
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Old February 15th, 2015, 02:00 PM   #152
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Its 44 minutes from Holsworthy to Central. Why would anyone in their right mind park their car there and take the train when its simpler, more pleasant and usually faster to take their car to the city?

Not if you don't have somewhere to park at the other end.
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Old February 15th, 2015, 02:15 PM   #153
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Not if you don't have somewhere to park at the other end.
Its amazing then that so many people will choose to drive all the way, and have to pay for a park. They do.

Now if only trains had more speed and a better quality of experience to offer..
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Old February 15th, 2015, 03:03 PM   #154
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Its 44 minutes from Holsworthy to Central. Why would anyone in their right mind park their car there and take the train when its simpler, more pleasant and usually faster to take their car to the city?
Are you talking about off peak? There is certainly nothing pleasant or fast about the trip from Holsworthy to the City by road at peak time. Also, the hourly fast off peak trains are 31 minutes from Holsworthy to Central via Airport. Peak trains are 32 minutes via Sydenham and 35 minutes via Airport. That is about the same as the driving time with no traffic.

You seem to have weird ideas about park and ride. I think you will find most people driving in single occupant cars in the morning peak on King St and Partamatta Rd do not have the CBD as a final destination. They are probably on their way through to the North Shore or Eastern Suburbs. The vast majority people heading to the CBD are already in public or active transport (85%) - it's just that most jobs aren't in the CBD.

Park and ride so close to the CBD would discourage rather than encourage PT use.
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Old February 16th, 2015, 05:29 AM   #155
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Its 44 minutes from Holsworthy to Central. Why would anyone in their right mind park their car there and take the train when its simpler, more pleasant and usually faster to take their car to the city?
Ive got friends on acreage around Leppington who leave the Range Rover at home and catch the train since the M5 is such a car park and then they have to sort out parking a the other end.
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Old February 16th, 2015, 08:29 AM   #156
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Its 44 minutes from Holsworthy to Central. Why would anyone in their right mind park their car there and take the train when its simpler, more pleasant and usually faster to take their car to the city?
You can drive from Holsworthy to the city in 44 minutes in peak? Really?
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Old February 16th, 2015, 09:41 AM   #157
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Joke. It would take me that long to drive from Croydon to Edgecliff, often longer, ten years ago, in peak hour and I very much doubt it has got any faster in the meantime.
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Old February 16th, 2015, 09:43 AM   #158
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smh

Call for debate over Sydney Trains: Bankstown Line or Parramatta Metro?

Date
February 16, 2015 - 5:33PM

Jacob Saulwick
Transport Reporter

INFO BOX IMAGE: Will you get a seat in 2021? Check your line here

A new metro rail line between Parramatta and central Sydney should be examined as an alternative to connecting another harbour rail crossing to the Bankstown Line at Sydenham, according to some transport and urban planners.

The Baird government wants to start construction on a new harbour rail crossing within three years if re-elected and link the line to the existing Bankstown Line at Sydenham.

Debate is needed to get the best outcome for Sydney. Photo: Michele Mossop

But in internal reports revealed by Fairfax Media on Monday, the Bankstown Line emerges as one of the least congested in the city. Instead, a crush is emerging on the Western Line at Parramatta.

Garry Glazebrook, an adjunct professor at the University of Technology Sydney, and one of the authors of the Herald's 2009 transport inquiry, said he supported linking the new harbour rail line to a new corridor to Parramatta.

This idea - building a new metro rail line between Parramatta and the city - would cost billions.

But Dr Glazebrook, who said the government had never adequately explained why it had chosen to connect the harbour crossing to the Bankstown Line, said a route close to Parramatta Road would be a better fit with the government's urban development objectives.

"They want to put 50,000 units along Parramatta Road, and the Western Line is under a bit of pressure, so if you add those two things up you really do need another significant transit route between the existing Western Line and the Harbour," Dr Glazebrook said.

Dr Glazebrook said the harbour crossing could also be linked to the existing Airport Line, with trains terminating at Revesby. He said this would provide similar relief to the existing system as the government's plan, which would remove Bankstown Line trains from the City Circle.

Roderick Simpson, director of the urban design program at the University of Sydney, has proposed a similar link between Parramatta and central Sydney. In a speech to the Sydney Architecture Festival in November, Dr Simpson recommended metro tunnels could be dug along or near Parramatta Road at the same time as the WestConnex motorway tunnels were dug.

"Not that I support WestConnex, but if you are going to do it you would definitely do it two levels," Dr Simpson said, referring to a motorway on one level of a tunnel and a train line on another.

"Rather than having all that disruption twice... why the hell wouldn't you be putting in a serious capacity public transport system that links Parramatta, uses the WestConnex tunnel, and actually links through to Sydney University and the CBD as well."

full article ↓

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/call-for-d...16-13ftjc.html
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Old February 16th, 2015, 10:18 AM   #159
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Question

Where are they proposing stations though?
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Old February 16th, 2015, 11:01 AM   #160
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I don't understand why they haven't considered connecting the second harbour crossing to the Inner West line. Surely that is better suited for metro services than the Bankstown line.
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