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Old June 18th, 2019, 09:54 AM   #13001
Tom Hughes
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[QUOTE=GunnerJacket;159981676]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zanderdad View Post
This. As has been discussed on the Everton thread the modern fan hates being under a steep overhang. They want to see more than just a tunnel-vision view to the pitch, instead wanting to view as much of the stadium as possible so as to take in the fuller experience. They want to feel a part of the whole crowd, not just their one tier's worth. They want to see all the electronic media, the fireworks or confetti blasting from the roof, the arc of the ball as it reaches into the sky... The modern spectator is used to panoramic imaging and immersive VR, plus multi-panel screens conveying a myriad of data and images while watching a game. The concept of viewing a game with blinders on is considered too prohibitive. For all intents and purposes it's one form of an obstructed view, and as such is not wanted.

Steep overhangs make for better views for those on top but are veritable dungeons for those beneath. I would think a club known for their Kop end would keenly relate to this concept.
It really depends how deep and cavernous they are and how much the overhang creates a vertical obstruction. Modern regs don't allow the same level of obstruction. As regards Goodison, under the upper Gwladys was always fairly popular with the more vociferous fans, as the noise can be very intense under there. The main issue under there being the vertical upper tier support columns, which in the days of terracing could be avoided by simply not standing behind them. Of course nowadays cantilevered structures avoid this completely. I'm sure the Shelf at Whitehart Lane was similarly popular too, as is the case at many baseball stadia..... the main point being that the value of those upper tier views increases dramatically, and anyone who has ever sat in an unobstructed seat in the upper tiers of a Leitch double-decker will vouch for that. Down-sloping roof lines can also create similar vertical obstruction. The BMD design has been criticised on some Everton forums for its lack of overhanging tiers, not being reflective of GPs traditions, and limiting capacity. The architect appears to have been overly concentrating on the desire to get the front row on top of the pitch, rather than minimising the average viewing distance by use of overlapping tiers. The result is upper tiers set back much further from the pitch than at GP, and just 52k seats, requiring increased ratio safe-standing to push that capacity up.

The other factor that has affected large overlapping tiers is the propensity for rythmic crowd movement conflicting with the natural frequency of cantilevered tiers. This happened at Anfield with their first attempt at a double-decker stand and its introduction to Celtic fans. Normally these upper tiers are meant for the more mature or well healed fans, and this is less of a consideration..... but that problem can be engineered out.
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Old June 18th, 2019, 09:59 AM   #13002
Demolition Dan
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http://www.spurscommunity.co.uk/inde...8802/page-1092

Cross section overlays of New WHL and Anfield's new Main.
Interesting that Spurs fans like aspects of Anfield, but are rather cynical of NWHL in some respects!

One problem with extra tiers is that you probably loose 10/12 ft or more in height every time you build a tier.

Does anyone know how many normal rows/equivalent are there per tier at NWHL.
I think the pic reiterates my view that the new Main is a Lpool solution, even if Spurs have a fine solution for themselves.

I only count around 61 rows for NWHL's long stands altho it has very large,even huge glazed areas.
I counted 77 rows (ish) behind the goal and 82 rows for their single tier "Kop".
All vs the 93 row new Main at Anfield.


EDIT I did an alternative picture count of NWHL's long stand and counted perhaps 64 or so rows. Its difficult to estimate because of disabled spaces and also large exec areas.

Last edited by Demolition Dan; June 18th, 2019 at 03:11 PM.
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Old June 18th, 2019, 01:31 PM   #13003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Macred View Post
It is Old Trafford, not sure what end, got it off Google Street View... only place I could think of where there was an open ground level under the stand.
I didn't realise the Stretford End was like that. I've been in the Away Corner at the Scoreboard End and also the Main Stand so never been round that end. I'd assumed both ends were similar.

The Celtic Park example is grim. I wouldn't advocate something like that. I was more thinking of something angled up and out. Cantilevered rather than than supported on steel columns. With a goalpost roof this should be simple to do. Certainly not backed up all the way to houses either.

As for the overhang it is personal preference. I think more people would prefer something with minimal overhang. So long as the overhanging tier isn't too low it doesn't cause much problem for fans on the lower. You want to be able to see the top of the seats in the opposite stand. A roof like at Old Trafford is actually more of a hindrance for those in the top tier. With corporate boxes there wouldn't be much room for it. If LFC build a new Anfield Road Stand without boxes then you would likely see similar overhangs to Spurs' North Stand.
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Old June 18th, 2019, 02:07 PM   #13004
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Originally Posted by Macred View Post

CHeers Tom, I just used OT as that is the only one I knew of the top of my head.... well that and Villa but that is more for cars, but presume the road shuts on matchdays.

But this is the East stand... again I see nothing in that which is anyway aesthetically desirable. As the image you show of the cross section of the Spurs stand, small concourses internally. If you can put a wall around the groundfloor level, and get people into and make a bar, then surely that would also be the most efficient use of a space that you have already covered with a stand, get people in out of any inclement weather and spending, is that not part of the design imperative for owners. The Kop Bar in essence does just that, brick bar, some flat screens TVs, holds about 600, and has a good pregame atmosphere, you go in and then have to come out to get in the ground proper.

Tbh the aesthetics are as ever a bit subjective. The point I was making was with regards to facilitating circulation without the need to clear swathes of properties. Some very large stadia have quite narrow circulatory areas in parts. This is often overcome by incorporating walkways below/within the structure. Tall stands with several concourse levels can achieve this even more readily, and also channel fans away from pinch points post-match too. The East stand has circulation on both levels keeping fans covered while queuing before entry on the upper level. Some others form attractive atriums with adjacent buildings.
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Old June 18th, 2019, 02:14 PM   #13005
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Originally Posted by OnwardsAndUpwards View Post

I didn't realise the Stretford End was like that. I've been in the Away Corner at the Scoreboard End and also the Main Stand so never been round that end. I'd assumed both ends were similar.

The Celtic Park example is grim. I wouldn't advocate something like that. I was more thinking of something angled up and out. Cantilevered rather than than supported on steel columns. With a goalpost roof this should be simple to do. Certainly not backed up all the way to houses either.

As for the overhang it is personal preference. I think more people would prefer something with minimal overhang. So long as the overhanging tier isn't too low it doesn't cause much problem for fans on the lower. You want to be able to see the top of the seats in the opposite stand. A roof like at Old Trafford is actually more of a hindrance for those in the top tier. With corporate boxes there wouldn't be much room for it. If LFC build a new Anfield Road Stand without boxes then you would likely see similar overhangs to Spurs' North Stand.
The Celtic tunnel is up against a cemetery wall if I'vegot my bearings right. I've been in there when packed. That side used to be known as the jungle, the natives are passionate hardy souls, and the noise under there is a good prelude to what you then get inside. It's part of the experience, if not ideal.
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Old June 18th, 2019, 03:05 PM   #13006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gardocki View Post
That said, I loved the look of the North Bank stand at Highbury, and wondered on here if that concept would work at Anfield. Do you know what the views were like from the back of the lower tier?
I never got the chance to sit in the North Bank so I can't speak to their views.

FWIW one notable 'overhang" experience I did have was while attending Georgia Tech. Back then the east stands (to the left in the image below) had a notable overhang (about 25 rows, I believe) and steel columns obstructing the views. The area was good for shade from the August/September sun but like a holding pen, otherwise. Half of the passes and punts (American football) you had to simply guess where the ball was going until it came down.


Courtesy of dirtysouthsoccer.com

Okay, nostalgia moment over. Carry on.
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Old Today, 05:54 AM   #13007
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Still all quiet isn't it.

Wonder if we might get somehting after the final concert on the 25th?

Or do you think they'll let the current application lapse, which is what was hinted at in that recent Moore interview?
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Old Today, 08:24 AM   #13008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GunnerJacket View Post
I never got the chance to sit in the North Bank so I can't speak to their views.

FWIW one notable 'overhang" experience I did have was while attending Georgia Tech. Back then the east stands (to the left in the image below) had a notable overhang (about 25 rows, I believe) and steel columns obstructing the views. The area was good for shade from the August/September sun but like a holding pen, otherwise. Half of the passes and punts (American football) you had to simply guess where the ball was going until it came down.

Okay, nostalgia moment over. Carry on.
Was just about to say "well that killed the conversation".... Looks a nice little ground does that.

With overhangs, if I was really old, but couldnt afford a box, then being tucked under a stand where I did not get wet and was out of the wind I might prefer ditto I might prefer to not see the ball in the air rather than sit on the front few rows and get no perspective on the game i.e just a flat 2d view. Pays your money and takes your choice. The Kop is not the best view in the house but it is where I would choose to watch the match from.
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Old Today, 09:03 AM   #13009
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https://youtu.be/mEXCRPcpXw8

Anfield in concert mode....

Now to do a Boss Nights Anfield addition... and keep the big screens for a replay of the Barca and Final

My mate went last night and said it was the worst concert he has been too, which he said largely was to being in The Kop at the back and they could not see the big screens because of the roof... so if they intend to develop the ARE to be more concert friendly... then they will need to attend to The Kop also - if you are that far away, then you need to see to be able to see all of the screens.

Wooly, I think we might get more news when these concerts have taken place and the club can assess the feedback both locally and generally to assess how much of a benefit there is to hosting such events, economic impacts both for the club and City (I heard that when Take That were on, all hotels were booked out in town again), that information would then be fed in to planning. I don't think either way the club are overly concerned about the current outline planning lapsing so I think we should not rely on that to say when we might hear more news. It could be before or it could be after... if we do hear nothing before of a definitive nature then I you would think that a public clamour if/when the current application lapsed would require the club to at least set out a timetable and thought process for what they are doing (shame they can not do that now in more detail than they have). If they have designs that they have dismissed would be nice to see them (and they would get free feedback too).
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