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Speakers' Corner For London related discussion


View Poll Results: How will you vote on June 23?
Leave 30 27.78%
Leave but unlikely to vote 0 0%
Stay 68 62.96%
Stay but unlikely to vote 6 5.56%
Undecided but will vote 3 2.78%
Undecided and unlikely to vote 1 0.93%
Voters: 108. You may not vote on this poll

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Old January 30th, 2018, 11:05 PM   #3301
DarJoLe
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Well there shouldn’t be a second referendum if the only two options are a bad deal or an even worse no deal. A third option of remaining in the EU- the better deal, should be there as an option also.
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Old January 30th, 2018, 11:29 PM   #3302
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You and I both know that's not a good idea. You can't split the secondary option in a divide-and-conquer scenario. Imagine if the EU referendum also had 3 options:

"Remain - and adopt Euro"

"Remain - don't adopt Euro"

or

"Leave"

It would be a landslide for Leave of course. Having multiple options in a referendum is a bad idea here as it means you split the options. If there was a second referendum, rather lay out clearly what Britain outside the EU would look like (whatever the government eventually decides that is) vs. Britain within the EU
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Old January 30th, 2018, 11:30 PM   #3303
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Quote:
Originally Posted by openhaard View Post
He smarty thanks for this illustrative explanation, it helps me explaining the complexity of further FTA deals - and it makes me think again and again, wowww. This is not gonna be good. But I don't want to repeat myself, but I would really say (as said long time ago): a second referendum. Now based on 'what we know' - for the Masses, so that a fair decision can be made. And if then made for Brexit: Okay, but then with eyes wide open, and honest to the people. If you get poorer and you say, well this is the choice we make (and yes, everything has a price), then I guess we all can understand it. But now the madness of it all prevails. To the ones who still want to make an economic case for Brexit, well, wake up to reality.
The leaked report actually reveals that the Treasury is now more optimistic about the UK's economic performance than it was before the referendum. These projections (which of course need to be taken with a large dose of salt) forecast a much smaller drag on growth than previously forecast by the Treasury.

The public saw those gloomier forecasts ahead of the vote and still voted Brexit. Because:

a) they don't believe the forecasts
b) they anticipate upsides that have not been modelled, eg: regulatory reform, new international trade deals, boost to consumer spending power, etc
c) they think other things matter more than a 0.X% drag on annual growth - democratic accountability, control of borders, etc

So I don't see why this changes anything?
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Old January 30th, 2018, 11:47 PM   #3304
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The Brexit Thread | Leaving the EU and its implications for London

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bezben View Post
If there was a second referendum, rather lay out clearly what Britain outside the EU would look like (whatever the government eventually decides that is) vs. Britain within the EU

So the options are:

A. Less poor
B. Poor

I mean what kind of future does that offer people? It’s completely INSANE this is the future awaiting the U.K. Absolute idiots in power for getting to this stage.
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Old January 31st, 2018, 12:46 AM   #3305
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DarJoLe, that is your opinion. Have you never been wrong before? I have, for example I did not think Trump would become president. Go back ten years ago I never thought the UK would leave the EU. Surely you must entertain the very small possibility that you might be wrong? That being the case only time will tell if your strongly held beliefs are more correct than others' strongly held beliefs.
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Old January 31st, 2018, 12:57 AM   #3306
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The Brexit Thread | Leaving the EU and its implications for London

Then what makes your opinion right? I might be ‘wrong’ when my opinion that jumping off a cliff will result in death, but why would someone even attempt such a thing when the majority of people know full well it will result in harm.

It’s like someone saying it’ll be fine, jump off the cliff, it might hurt but you never know, you might end up forcing yourself to learn to fly on the way down! I mean, come on.
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Old January 31st, 2018, 01:03 AM   #3307
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarJoLe View Post
So the options are:

A. Less poor
B. Poor

I mean what kind of future does that offer people? It’s completely INSANE this is the future awaiting the U.K. Absolute idiots in power for getting to this stage.
Or C. On Our Knees (if all of this means the govt falls and Corbyn and his merry men get in)
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Old January 31st, 2018, 01:11 AM   #3308
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarJoLe View Post
Then what makes your opinion right? I might be ‘wrong’ when my opinion that jumping off a cliff will result in death, but why would someone even attempt such a thing when the majority of people know full well it will result in harm.

It’s like someone saying it’ll be fine, jump off the cliff, it might hurt but you never know, you might end up forcing yourself to learn to fly on the way down! I mean, come on.
I think I am right, as we all do, but the truth is I don't know definitively until Brexit has happened and a few years have passed after.

To answer your question because you have reason to think otherwise, not everyone knows about BASE jumping but say that you do then it is not for other people's ignorance to interfere. As we live in a democracy we honour democratic decisions.

Of course BASE jumping is dangerous, but for the majority that do not die it must be an exhilarating experience I am sure! Again only time can tell who was right or wrong / lives or dies.
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Old January 31st, 2018, 10:28 AM   #3309
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https://www.romandie.com/news/ZOOM-T...ete/885839.rom
Reading this article this morning, I have a question: it speaks of MR. May and I am wondering if it still is in use in the UK even in young couples, that the woman takes the surname of her husband on after wedding. Is it used all over the anglosphere?
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Old January 31st, 2018, 10:37 AM   #3310
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It's normal but not everyone does it.
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Old January 31st, 2018, 11:12 AM   #3311
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Interesting post by FT Alpha in the Global Standing of London thread showing that in terms of real estate investment London still leads the world and it has actually increased since the Brexit vote (I'm sorry but I have no idea whether I can or am allowed to bring that across to this thread).

It still seems that people are putting their money into London despite the prospect of us leaving the EU. It's not as though property prices are booming either which makes you think that people are investing for the long term.

My own feeling is that too many people have money invested in this city and in the country to allow it to dive off a cliff because of Brexit. It may be super-naive optimism on my part.
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Old January 31st, 2018, 11:37 AM   #3312
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Well Dusty Hare, the lower pond is favourable for foreign investment in real estate in London, (just as the higher inflation for all investment), so if you would want to call that a positive side effect of Brexit, there you have it. We discussed the London property market already earlier, and on the downside of the large foreign investments (also for speculative reasons) lies the accessibility of normal priced housing in London.
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Old January 31st, 2018, 11:38 AM   #3313
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dgero83 View Post
https://www.romandie.com/news/ZOOM-T...ete/885839.rom
Reading this article this morning, I have a question: it speaks of MR. May and I am wondering if it still is in use in the UK even in young couples, that the woman takes the surname of her husband on after wedding. Is it used all over the anglosphere?
Still the norm, but some choose not to. Me and my partner discussed it rather than just assumed.
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Old January 31st, 2018, 12:17 PM   #3314
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Leaving the EU is not jumping off a cliff, its that sort of silly hyperbole that made the remain campaign seem so ridiculous.
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Old January 31st, 2018, 12:19 PM   #3315
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Originally Posted by ill tonkso View Post
Still the norm, but some choose not to. Me and my partner discussed it rather than just assumed.
last offtopic question: could you have taken hers?
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Old January 31st, 2018, 12:22 PM   #3316
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It's an option, some people do.
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Old January 31st, 2018, 12:27 PM   #3317
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Originally Posted by openhaard View Post
Well Dusty Hare, the lower pond is favourable for foreign investment in real estate in London, (just as the higher inflation for all investment), so if you would want to call that a positive side effect of Brexit, there you have it. We discussed the London property market already earlier, and on the downside of the large foreign investments (also for speculative reasons) lies the accessibility of normal priced housing in London.
I'm sure it has been long discussed here. Just thought it was worth pointing out as he only posted it yesterday and we do get a slew of negative articles on this thread!! Of course we all know the pressures on normal people of the foreign investment but some of this investment does of course feed through to born and bred Londoners.
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Old January 31st, 2018, 12:39 PM   #3318
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarJoLe View Post
So the options are:

A. Less poor
B. Poor

I mean what kind of future does that offer people? It’s completely INSANE this is the future awaiting the U.K. Absolute idiots in power for getting to this stage.

I could argue the exact same if in the Scottish referendum there was a Yes majority. It's economic suicide but if a majority wanted it, we would have to go through with it.
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Old January 31st, 2018, 12:41 PM   #3319
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Leaving the EU is not jumping off a cliff, its that sort of silly hyperbole that made the remain campaign seem so ridiculous.
Leaving the EU with no deal is exactly like jumping off a cliff. Thankfully even the muppets in government seem to have twigged on that one and I haven't heard the inane "no deal is better than a bad deal" for some time now.

In fact it was noticeable that even the ultras started to realise what exactly no deal entailed in practice so began talking about a "bare bones deal" rather than no deal.
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Old January 31st, 2018, 03:20 PM   #3320
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Leaving the EU with no deal is exactly like jumping off a cliff. Thankfully even the muppets in government seem to have twigged on that one and I haven't heard the inane "no deal is better than a bad deal" for some time now.
It took far too long for that phrase to be consigned to the rubbish heap.
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