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Old October 23rd, 2019, 09:15 AM   #6661
BoulderGrad
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Hey!, shiny new A220 in line there.
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Old October 23rd, 2019, 09:44 AM   #6662
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I work my first one next Wednesday. This ought to be interesting.
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Old October 23rd, 2019, 06:30 PM   #6663
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhays View Post
Looks like we'll get an update on their five year capital plan and current budget tomorrow. In a quick look I'm not seeing downloadable stuff online. However, per today's DJC:

"The first open house will be held 5:30 p.m.-7:30 p.m. Tuesday in the atrium at Pier 69. The second will be held at the same time on Oct. 28 at Sea-Tac Airport Conference Center."
Anyone go? Any new news?
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Old October 24th, 2019, 07:08 AM   #6664
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capitol Hill View Post
I work my first one next Wednesday. This ought to be interesting.
I got to ride in one from Newark to Detroit in June. It is obnoxiously loud while taxiing but once its wheels up it is a great ride. Bombardier did really well.
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Old October 25th, 2019, 05:52 AM   #6665
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From the PSRC:

Quote:
Study identifies 2050 gap in region’s air capacity

The Executive Board heard preliminary results from the Regional Aviation Baseline Study on airside and landside capacity through 2050. Watch the presentation here (starts about 1:04).

One big takeaway is that Sea-Tac Airport -- even with improvements underway and planned -- won't have the capacity to meet unconstrained demand of 55 million enplanements (passengers boarding for departure) in 2050. Sea-Tac's near-term projects could accommodate about 28 million enplanements.
The slidedeck is here: https://www.psrc.org/sites/default/f...elinestudy.pdf
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Old October 25th, 2019, 08:02 PM   #6666
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Another motivation for Cascadia High-Speed Rail.
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Old October 25th, 2019, 09:33 PM   #6667
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I suppose this is the right place to drop this. Comparing delivery drones.
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Old October 25th, 2019, 09:58 PM   #6668
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Quote:
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Another motivation for Cascadia High-Speed Rail.
Destinations that would be served by HSR are not that big of a share of passenger traffic at Sea-Tac. Both YVR and PDC see only about 630k passengers out of Sea-Tac. 1.2mil is only about 5% of the 24mil passengers that depart from here. A bit of a dent, but nothing that's going to significantly ease the pressure building up at the airport.
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Old October 25th, 2019, 10:40 PM   #6669
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I don't see any backup for how they reach their estimates of passenger totals. Based on what is happening at my company as well as others my friends work at I'm going to predict that business travel will taper or at least grow much more slowly over the next 10-20 years.

Online conference technology is getting so much better - with a lot of bells and whistles for collaboration that the reasons to travel for meetings are diminishing quickly. My company is constantly looking for was to cut travel expenses as they are both expensive and impact productivity. Growth in travel for pleasure may offset declines in business travel but I think its also possible that climate concerns will cause some leisure travelers to cut back as well.

I'm not asserting POS doesn't need to plan for increased passenger volumes to the Seattle area. I'm just wondering if the passenger projections are allowing for possible changes in individual travel patterns.
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Old October 25th, 2019, 10:56 PM   #6670
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Travel demand is only increasing. Worldwide, the middle class has grown from 1 billion in 2000 to something like 3.7 billion and growing rapidly today. Middle income folks are by far the largest travel group.

There are some things that conference calls cannot cover... as in, you need the IT company that sets up the conference equipment still. As much time as we spend on the web, the physical realm is still much larger and important that the virtual. Seattle would not be building a second convention center if the projected growth was not there, as another example.
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Old October 25th, 2019, 11:16 PM   #6671
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The PSRC is supposed to plan, so good on them. However 31 years is a long time. Changing tech (vertical take-offs?), less population growth, and other factors are at least major questions.

Of course, "no nothing" is always an option. Lots of places run into capacity challenges and do nothing. We want to avoid this because that option involves slowing the city's growth and economic fortunes. But it's not hard...as things get tighter, airlines and passengers avoid that particular city.

I'm skeptical about an all-new airport, which would be a political and legal challenge like the third runway x5, and an environmental/sprawl disaster. I suspect we'll expand our use of Paine and/or other secondary airports, while also expanding Sea-Tac.

And high speed rail is essential, or at least expanding current service. That would have an outsized effect vs. its ridership since a lot of it's small planes. This would also address I-5's capacity issues. A few billion here and there would go a loooong way.
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Old October 26th, 2019, 12:01 AM   #6672
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My impression was that the future expansion options for Paine Field are very limited. So I don't see that helping a ton. Any other regional airports that could be expanded?
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Old October 26th, 2019, 01:09 AM   #6673
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkhyperchaos View Post


My impression was that the future expansion options for Paine Field are very limited. So I don't see that helping a ton. Any other regional airports that could be expanded?

Olympia maybe? Would need some sort of higher speed rail connection to be useful to most of the regional population. Maybe also a new I-5 bypass that continues 167 south and then west to somewhere between Oly and Centralia.
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Old October 26th, 2019, 02:54 AM   #6674
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The Seattle (Puget Sound) CSA is a huge urban area. Its sports team and trauma care markets extend to Alaska and Montana and Wyoming in some cases. It connects goods to and from the Northwest and Midwest with the rest of the world by air, rail and truck. It has pioneered products and brands that continue revolutionizing the world as we know it, from the 747 to Windows to Frappuccinos and Amazon.

Sea-Tac is so physically small that JetSuiteX is using Boeing Field, just like Southwest threatened to. In Phoenix, JetSuiteX is using...Phoenix...because Sky Harbor has so much room still for capacity. And Paine Field is tiny as well, with similar-volume airports around the country such as Phoenix-Mesa Gateway and Blue Grass Airport having 10 or 20 or more gates. Paine has...2. But the demand is in Puget Sound, not Mesa and not Lexington.

Building a 605 freeway, as was envisioned decades ago through the area around the Tolt Reservoir, is cost prohibitive. Currently the region is still trying to FINISH freeways that were started decades ago and it doesn’t have the funds for FULL build-out: 167, 509, and 522 to Monroe. 167 and 509 are now being built in skeleton form without HOV lanes. 520 was supposed to continue up Avondale Road on a path to Monroe. Now, commuters from Duvall and Monroe still have two-lane roads to Redmond and PSRC told the City of Duvall it is “growing too fast” but the county and state do next to nothing to improve infrastructure. 520 will still have the same ugly, less-than-speed, left-hand interchange ramps meeting I-5 after billions spent adding just 1 lane in each direction across the lake.

I can see how secondary airports would be much easier to expand, especially immediately, than building something new on forest. Any kind of new infrastructure, whether it is an airport or freeway, from 167 south toward Centralia has to deal with forest, rivers, mountains, JBLM, and as you get closer to Chehalis, you’re already around Mt. St. Helens Country, home of Bigfoot. There would be environmental hurdles and obstacles that people in Lexington would give-up fighting.
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Old October 26th, 2019, 04:41 AM   #6675
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Paine Field is probably the most likely candidate, but all the regional pressure won't make Mukilteo/Lynnwood/Edmonds budge on the issue. The southern approach does go quite low over some of the hilly neighborhoods, though, so I can see their concerns are justified. Perhaps the number of new residents to the area will help drown out the complaints after a while, since people are getting used to having Paine Field as an option (and with light rail in 2036, it will be a really easy one to access).
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Old October 26th, 2019, 09:08 AM   #6676
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God I wish the people in power had a better plan to manage the future growth and infrastructure of this region. Is it incompetence or just a lack of resources? I so envy our neighbors up north in BC who have great regional planning and emphasis density and public transportation.
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Old October 26th, 2019, 11:29 AM   #6677
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If a High Speed Rail Line was in place, then an airport possibly like Bellingham- BLI could be in play as a reliever. Plenty of room to grow there.
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Old October 26th, 2019, 11:39 AM   #6678
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Quote:
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If a High Speed Rail Line was in place, then an airport possibly like Bellingham- BLI could be in play as a reliever. Plenty of room to grow there.


That’s what has been talked about...for Moses Lake
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Old October 26th, 2019, 04:55 PM   #6679
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On another topic: I was at Sea-Tac in the early morning (5:00 AM - 6:00 AM) yesterday for the first time since Labor Day. I'd expected there'd be fewer people than during the summer. But noooo...the corridor going from Terminal A through Terminal D was as crowded as I'd ever seen it; ditto the North Satellite.

And, speaking of the North Satellite, there's now only a single escalator -- no more stairs -- going from the train platform up to the main floor. Believe me you do not want to be in a hurry when the train disgorges its trainload of people, all of whom immediately bottleneck into one narrow path.

I'll be out there again early Monday morning, so I'll be able to compare the Monday vs the Friday crowds.

Does anyone know when the new and improved C-concourse train stop is supposed to re-open?
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Old October 27th, 2019, 01:18 AM   #6680
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Concourse C train upgrade: December open

https://www.portseattle.org/projects...access-upgrade
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