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Old January 12th, 2010, 01:18 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by i_like_concrete View Post
the dregs at the bottom of the barrel of shit.
I love the way you word things i like concrete
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Old January 12th, 2010, 01:22 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by i_like_concrete View Post
Ahh Simpson, I'll not forgive him for that lurid green thing over at Holloway Circus for a loooonnng time.
Seriously what the hell are you doing on this forum? Your constant moaning is becoming pathetic. You dislike Beetham and Regal. Two of Birmingham's most exciting projects.

I swear you only like the Library because most forumers didn't at first.

You've got nothing good to say about most developments yet for some unknown reason, seem to believe your opinion is superior to others?

Clearly you are a pessimist, but why do you feel the urge to bring others down with you? Why do you have to take the shine and excitement out off development's*, which others enjoy seeing?


*(I'm not claiming this is an exciting project, but before I had time to even take it in, your comment's were there slating it, as with everything.)

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Old January 12th, 2010, 01:43 AM   #23
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I like the library because it represents good, original architecture, something Birmingham doesn't have enough of. Regal doesn't represent that, nor does HCT. Regal is exciting because it is tall, not because it is good.

Sorry for like, SAYING STUFF, I always thought this was a forum for DEBATE, half the time I think this would simply be a forum for saying "oh that's nice" if it wasn't for me and one or two other people.

I don't think my opinions are superior to yours, I just have higher standards than you. That's not pessimism, sorry if I offend you by wanting the best for Birmingham, sorry if when you look at all the shit buildings in Birmingham you don't hear the hallowed voices of planning officers past saying "oh that's okay, that'll do" without thinking through the long term impact of what they're doing.

We can advocate everything new in shit areas, CUS AT LEEST SUMMIN IS BEEN BUILT THERE ENNIT, or, we could look at the shittest areas of our city, and try not to inflict a new generation of shit on them, actually try and create GOOD places, with GOOD buildings. The Gun Quarter is being turned into a student ghetto, that's not really better than what's there now, this whole IT'LL INJECT LIFE INTO THE AREA thing is just shit. It'll inject a transient and uncaring population into the area, that won't establish it as a district (not a good one at any rate), it'll pour a big pile of shit all over any hopes of a decent area being created.
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Old January 12th, 2010, 01:57 AM   #24
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I don't post on here as much as I used to, more of an observer these days with the odd drunken night of regretful posts, but ILC is a valuable contributor because he gives HIS opinion. I accept that I don't agree with everything he says but at the same time I've been caught up in the hype of a new tall and we need a few levellers or alternate view points now and again to bring things back in to perspective.
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Old January 12th, 2010, 02:00 AM   #25
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As often as I agree with you ilc, I do disagree with a few of the points you have just made. Firstly, I can understand why you think Birmingham needs more original architecture. Well, yeah, that's true but with reference to Regal not being exciting I do disagree. Yes, the height plays a factor but it's style is something that is very different for Birmingham and the UK. The Chrysler Building and Empire State in New York are not exactly groundbreaking in architectural style, instead they took a style that was already existing and extruded it into another form, new materials, an previously unrecognised scale etc etc. Now I'm not trying to compare Regal with them in terms of the effect it will have on the world, but the way it which it takes a pre-existing style and uses it in a different way is comparable.

Original architecture can be exciting. It can a show a city to be daring, and forward thinking. However, it can also turn a city into a complete mish mash of styles. Some may work, some may not - and considering the fast moving world of architecture at the moment, things are becoming dated much much quicker than they were many many years ago. Having a coherent architectural style running through the city can do it wonders - yet can also do it serious damage, as the modernist and brutalist styles did on Birmingham. The first city I can think of when it comes to new, daring architecture and how it is having a negative impact on a city is Rotterdam. There are so many original buildings there, that it almost looks like a fairground. I'd hate to see Birmingham become something like that.

Also, this forum is for discussion. Debate can't be had on every single project to come through the doors. Whilst I acknowledge debate should be had in many cases, it can lead to negative effects on the "community" - as you can see, some people are getting more and more frustrated with your perpetual negative look on here and seemingly unwillingness to post anything positive (I've probably only seen you be positive on the library thread!). Nevertheless, your opinion is still very much appreciated (as are some of your poetic nuances ).

Anyway, as for this project, blergh.
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Old January 12th, 2010, 02:04 AM   #26
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That's a huge post Erebus for such a blergh project...and yes, I think it is blergh too. Totally uninteresting
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Old January 12th, 2010, 02:11 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erebus555 View Post
Also, this forum is for discussion. Debate can't be had on every single project to come through the doors. Whilst I acknowledge debate should be had in many cases, it can lead to negative effects on the "community" - as you can see, some people are getting more and more frustrated with your perpetual negative look on here and seemingly unwillingness to post anything positive (I've probably only seen you be positive on the library thread!). Nevertheless, your opinion is still very much appreciated (as are some of your poetic nuances ).

Anyway, as for this project, blergh.
to be fair, for me, it is frustrating that people in this community seem to think that a poor building is acceptable so i guess it goes both ways.
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Old January 12th, 2010, 02:21 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erebus555 View Post
Also, this forum is for discussion. Debate can't be had on every single project to come through the doors. Whilst I acknowledge debate should be had in many cases, it can lead to negative effects on the "community" - as you can see, some people are getting more and more frustrated with your perpetual negative look on here and seemingly unwillingness to post anything positive (I've probably only seen you be positive on the library thread!). Nevertheless, your opinion is still very much appreciated (as are some of your poetic nuances ).

Anyway, as for this project, blergh.
I think you have written a load of poop.

Surely this forum is for free thinking and discussion and debate, if that upsets certain people so what. What's with this "negative effects on the "community"" - who are you to decide. Why should you expect everyone to post "positive" posts. Don't be so sanctimonious. ILC should be respected for his views, whether you agree or not.

Personally I see this project as more of the same crap, and I don't see how anyone can say this is good architecture.
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Old January 12th, 2010, 02:26 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erebus555 View Post
As often as I agree with you ilc, I do disagree with a few of the points you have just made. Firstly, I can understand why you think Birmingham needs more original architecture. Well, yeah, that's true but with reference to Regal not being exciting I do disagree. Yes, the height plays a factor but it's style is something that is very different for Birmingham and the UK. The Chrysler Building and Empire State in New York are not exactly groundbreaking in architectural style, instead they took a style that was already existing and extruded it into another form, new materials, an previously unrecognised scale etc etc. Now I'm not trying to compare Regal with them in terms of the effect it will have on the world, but the way it which it takes a pre-existing style and uses it in a different way is comparable.
We'll have to agree to disagree on that one, or have the debate over on the Regal thread.

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Original architecture can be exciting. It can a show a city to be daring, and forward thinking. However, it can also turn a city into a complete mish mash of styles. Some may work, some may not - and considering the fast moving world of architecture at the moment, things are becoming dated much much quicker than they were many many years ago.
I think you mistake original architecture for crap architecture. Original doesn't mean things have to clash. It means applying some new thinking to a specific site, clashing with it's neighbours doesn't make something original. Take 1 Victoria Square, it's not amazing, but the way it responded to the site is unlike any other development in Birmingham, its wholly different from what surrounds it, and yet the size and scale of the building is more than enough to fit into the existing urban grain.

Quote:
Having a coherent architectural style running through the city can do it wonders - yet can also do it serious damage, as the modernist and brutalist styles did on Birmingham. The first city I can think of when it comes to new, daring architecture and how it is having a negative impact on a city is Rotterdam. There are so many original buildings there, that it almost looks like a fairground. I'd hate to see Birmingham become something like that.
Cities like Edinburgh have a consistent style and vernacular, but it's a historical and well preserved city in a way that Birmingham never has been and never will be. Birmingham has never had a period of one overwhelming vernacular or style, it has been punctuated at many different times with new and different styles, sometimes they work, sometimes they don't. It is not consistency in architectural styles that make a good city, it is consistency in scale and massing that does that, however it should be allowed to be pierced with unusual and unique buildings if the benefits from them are worth it.

Quote:
Also, this forum is for discussion. Debate can't be had on every single project to come through the doors.
People don't have to debate with me.

Quote:
Whilst I acknowledge debate should be had in many cases, it can lead to negative effects on the "community" - as you can see, some people are getting more and more frustrated with your perpetual negative look on here and seemingly unwillingness to post anything positive (I've probably only seen you be positive on the library thread!). Nevertheless, your opinion is still very much appreciated (as are some of your poetic nuances ).
I'm Grumpy, there are 6 other cheerful dwarves, you can either love me for what I am or not love me at all, I'll be grumpy all the same.
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Old January 12th, 2010, 02:27 AM   #30
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wats the plannin app ref. for this?
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Old January 12th, 2010, 02:32 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by fourbytwo View Post
I think you have written a load of poop.

Surely this forum is for free thinking and discussion and debate, if that upsets certain people so what. What's with this "negative effects on the "community"" - who are you to decide. Why should you expect everyone to post "positive" posts. Don't be so sanctimonious. ILC should be respected for his views, whether you agree or not.

Personally I see this project as more of the same crap, and I don't see how anyone can say this is good architecture.
Erm, that's exactly what I said. ILC said he thought this forum was for debate, and I was simply saying that there was more to it than that. Maybe I misread what he put although I don't think I have.

Negative effects on the forum - well it's quite clear that many people are getting frustrated with the overall negative tones that ilc portrays in his posts. They are justified the vast majority of the time, which I do respect as many people don't take the time to do that usually. I think you've misread how I was coming across as the post was more about me being an observer as opposed to one of those who is frustrated. So don't start thinking I'm seeing myself as some sort of higher, more established member here.
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Old January 12th, 2010, 02:42 AM   #32
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yeah, the ground floor interaction isnt brilliant....

better than what was proposed before though
I think this is what is the problem with so much of Birmingham's new buildings particularly on the edges of the centre. The planning requirements should be to have some form of active frontage. The building's occupants may inject life into the area but the building won't because it'll just be a dead wall to most people. No shops, bars, cafes: just wall. The students will have to go to an established part of the city. Just like with the new student blocks on Jennens Road. Just as someone on another thread pointed out Selfridges does. I suppose on the fringe locations we can't really blame the developers for this, at the moment these roads aren't a hive of activity so shops would be hard to let but once they're are mostly blank wall they can never be anything else. When you are building a student block there is a chance to use these numbers of residents to revitalise an area - maybe offer attractive rates to entice independents.

How can the city really link up when to go to some locations you have to walk down a street that has nothing to offer a pedestrian other than a right of way? When you wander around a great city you drift from one area to the next without noticing a gap as the ground floors are mostly made up of units with a variety of commercial units. Birmingham seems intent on building gaps in.
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Old January 12th, 2010, 02:48 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Erebus555 View Post
Erm, that's exactly what I said. ILC said he thought this forum was for debate, and I was simply saying that there was more to it than that. Maybe I misread what he put although I don't think I have.

Negative effects on the forum - well it's quite clear that many people are getting frustrated with the overall negative tones that ilc portrays in his posts. They are justified the vast majority of the time, which I do respect as many people don't take the time to do that usually. I think you've misread how I was coming across as the post was more about me being an observer as opposed to one of those who is frustrated. So don't start thinking I'm seeing myself as some sort of higher, more established member here.
That's not a problem, but quite frankly I couldn't give a monkeys "that many people are getting frustrated with the overall negative tones that ilc portrays", I don't think that anyone should try and censor "negative views" (where would we be with literature if this was the case), also how do you not know that there aren't an equal number of people that have the same views as ilc. That is the beauty of discussion and debate, and as ilc says, he doesn't have to debate with anyone. While I appreciate that you have a certain view, I don't think that any other member should be telling other members to take another point of view regardless whether you consider this to be negative. I take many of ilc's views as positive.

But nothing personal with you ebus.
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Old January 12th, 2010, 03:25 AM   #34
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The problem is probably more the banality and lack of inspiration in most of our new buildings than with ILC. I agree that we are happy to settle for buildings that are far too poor to stand the test of time. So why pretend buildings like this are good when they aren't?
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Old January 12th, 2010, 03:48 AM   #35
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here here
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Old January 12th, 2010, 10:36 AM   #36
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Personally I see this project as more of the same crap, and I don't see how anyone can say this is good architecture.
I agree and here's what you could have won C/02305/06/FUL

[IMG]http://i20.************/25uqiao.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i20.************/4jak94.jpg[/IMG]

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Old January 12th, 2010, 11:04 AM   #37
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In fairness the first images in this thread don't do it justice. Still the same developer and from the supporting documents it sound like its been value engineered for economic reasons

2009/05303/PA
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Old January 12th, 2010, 02:14 PM   #38
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Firstly ,thanks for posting the information Brum'sgrove .

When I see these long student blocks the first thing I do is upturn it and look at it as a tall building ; this would make reasonable 32 floor tower similar in style to the student tower in Wolverhampton .Plonking it down again it is an average building not disimilar to social and private buildings outside the old quarter of Seville .
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Old January 12th, 2010, 03:44 PM   #39
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Thanks for the info Brum'sgrove

Bad design IMO - one like that it the area is forgiveable but two is negligence. It isn't horrendous but it is just student accommodation by numbers. They could come up with something far better. What is wrong with brickwork in a industrial style, or just some better detailing? There is an excellent student block on Summer Lane by the same architect that they can learn from. I can understand that they can't afford to do the 2 previous design but it needs something far better. I feel moved to comment on the application.

I value i_l_c's posts - he has sound reasoning and puts up a good argument, even though I don't agree with everything he says

FWIW the Manchester student block posted earlier is hideous. Might look interesting on the pics but in reality it is overpowering and intimidating and is 'snazzy' for the sake of it. Makes me think of a prison, which is appropriate as it is on the edge of badlands.
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Old January 12th, 2010, 04:02 PM   #40
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I think this design has something to it, the taller part does contain a fair amount of glass and luckily this is the side that most people will see instead of the longer boring part.

Just to put this in perspective this is what is already here on a gateway into the city centre

image hosted on flickr


wouldnt you rather see this?

image hosted on flickr


This doesnt mean i particualy like it but for people to critise soething that will improve the area is wrong. Its ok to say that its an oppurtunity if nothing is built here but its not like we are short of these oppurtunities in Birmingham. Might i also remind you that this is not in the city centre so a world class building was never going to happen.
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