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Old June 19th, 2019, 11:47 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mistogun View Post
This plane is like 20 years old, and only since last year the start to get bigger contracts. I wonder whats the reason for it.
1. Global Warming.
2. Insurance companies are more powerful than Trump.
3. AVRO RJ conversions are a crap substitute.
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Old June 20th, 2019, 08:15 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by -III- View Post
What about the engines? They are produced in Ukraine. How is Russia going to build more of these?
There are plans to fly a re-engined version next year or two.
It seems to be the same engine.. or a variant, of the one used in the Sukhoi Superjet

http://www.rusaviainsider.com/new-de...ject-revealed/
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Old June 20th, 2019, 08:18 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sponge_bob View Post
1. Global Warming.
2. Insurance companies are more powerful than Trump.
3. AVRO RJ conversions are a crap substitute.
not to mention there are like only 3 or 4 large amphibious planes on the market. not a whole lot of selection.. and the Beriev model is the only one that is jet powered and probably would be the easiest to convert into a passenger plane.

the Japanese Shin Maywa US-2, when converted can only seat 50 and its limit to the front cabin. But it was never actually done, just diagram only.

the Be-200 can convert the entire cabin and seat over 70, with seats and interior that looks like an actual airliner.
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Old June 20th, 2019, 03:11 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RyukyuRhymer View Post
There are plans to fly a re-engined version next year or two.
It seems to be the same engine.. or a variant, of the one used in the Sukhoi Superjet

http://www.rusaviainsider.com/new-de...ject-revealed/
No, they decided not to equip Be200 with SaM146. They will be using new PD-10 instead, when it's ready
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Old June 20th, 2019, 03:59 PM   #45
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No, they decided not to equip Be200 with SaM146. They will be using new PD-10 instead, when it's ready
That would be a brand new engine which is not tested at all would it?????

We'll be a while waiting to see a Beriev in service with these, perhaps 3 years ???
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Old June 20th, 2019, 08:26 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RyukyuRhymer View Post
There are plans to fly a re-engined version next year or two.
It seems to be the same engine.. or a variant, of the one used in the Sukhoi Superjet

http://www.rusaviainsider.com/new-de...ject-revealed/
Now you realize what was I talking about when I mentioned similar things in Antonov topic. Nobody is yet sure what will happen with this aircraft because substitution is not certain at this point. Engine change, especially that one with French parts or some other from the West, requires changes in avionics and that lead towards new problems.

I hope they will overcome this problem but until this point we don't know that for sure.
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Old June 20th, 2019, 11:35 PM   #47
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I have read somewhere, that they will buy ukrainian engines through "international channels" for the next Be-200 planes.
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Old June 20th, 2019, 11:43 PM   #48
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That would be good for a short period of time. Why? Ukraine and Russia are not in good relations. The situation could get even worse. Those engines need technical support and that means that Russia must maintain relations with Motor Sich. How is that going to work in these conditions? Second - Motor Sich could go to bankruptcy due to loss of market. Similar situation with Antonov but better since Motor Sich engines are used world wide.

I know that the management of Motor Sich is willing to cooperate because their director stood up against this situation in Ukraine and said openly that sanctions are not good. On the other hand, if they try to breach the sanctions and cooperate with Russia, they are risking penalties from Ukrainian authorities. By the way, USA will do anything to slow down Russian economy and aircraft industry.

Be-200 suffers from same problems as An-124 does - engines.
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Old June 21st, 2019, 01:06 AM   #49
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The court forbade the use of engines with spare parts of NATO countries. Apparently this only applies to the security forces inside Russia (the Ministry of Defense and the Emergencies Ministry). Forbidden to use the engine from the Superjet-100.
However, for foreign (international) customers, these engines can be used. In 2018, the project was already presented to the aircraft with the engine SaM146.
By the way, in October 2018, the French declared that they had solved the problem of an engine with a combustion chamber (with the “hot part” of the engine).
However, there is another option. A foreign customer buys a separate plane from Russia and engines from Ukraine. This does not contradict the sanctions between Russia and Ukraine.

In any case, the contract would not be signed for 2020 if they did not know how to solve this problem. Moreover, the customer would not have signed the contract if he did not know how to solve this problem.
There should be no problems with a foreign customer.

The question remains - how will the contract for 24 aircraft for the Ministry of Emergency Situations be fulfilled until 2024?
There are three options.
- Or the court will allow the use of engines SaM146 for "law enforcement agencies."
- Or, in some unknown way, Ukrainian engines will be purchased.
- Or they will make a new engine PD-10 / PD-8 (which they will inevitably have to develop for the Sukhoi Superjet 75).
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Old June 21st, 2019, 01:29 AM   #50
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So no Berievs for 3 years because there are no certified engines available for them. Might as well lock the thread up until then, eh.

Every western operator of those Sam146 engine wants rid of the superjets they are attached to, the reliability has been awful on these French engines. The Russian engines don't exist yet either.
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Old June 21st, 2019, 04:21 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by sponge_bob View Post
So no Berievs for 3 years because there are no certified engines available for them. Might as well lock the thread up until then, eh.

Every western operator of those Sam146 engine wants rid of the superjets they are attached to, the reliability has been awful on these French engines. The Russian engines don't exist yet either.
Any more details about the unreliability of the Sam146?
does it have to do with sanctions?
poor collaboration between the two?
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Old June 21st, 2019, 05:08 AM   #52
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From what I've heard is that on top of the poor service done by the OAC (late delivery of replacement parts) for the superjet, the French have been even slower to pump out replacement parts for their engines
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Old June 21st, 2019, 11:34 AM   #53
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When the SSJ was in service with Interjet and Cityjet, running that engine, it was hard to get parts so they were forced to ground them.
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Old June 21st, 2019, 01:13 PM   #54
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If there were no engines, then the international contract would not be signed for 2020.

The French said they solved their problem. The problem of the “combustion chamber” was the only major problem of this engine. The engine resource was two to three times less than the stated resource. That is why there were problems with spare parts (because they often had to be serviced, because there were two or three times more spare parts needed). The shortage of spare parts was because the resource of the “hot part” of the engine was two to three times less than what is written in the regulations.

At the moment, the French and Russian parts of the engine should not have a problem.
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Old June 21st, 2019, 01:50 PM   #55
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Nobody wants jets with the SAM 146 engine, end of discussion until Beriev sort out a proper engine supplier in 3 years.
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Old June 21st, 2019, 02:05 PM   #56
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Meanwhile at Safran's YouTube channel....
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Old June 21st, 2019, 02:27 PM   #57
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Nobody wants jets with the SAM 146 engine, end of discussion until Beriev sort out a proper engine supplier in 3 years.
Why three years? Where does this figure come from?
- if the contract is signed (2020-2021), then there is no problem with the engine.
Why does nobody need SAM 146 engines?
- even if there are problems with the French "hot part" of the engine, then this is not a passenger plane and the resource requirements are not so strict. Be-200 should not fly 300 hours per month and put out fires. Even with a resource of 4000 hours, engine overhaul is required approximately once every 5 years (taking into account the average Be-200 flight time).
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Old June 21st, 2019, 02:31 PM   #58
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There is a big problem because the SAM146 is notorious for being grounded awaiting spare parts. That is why EVERY western customer for the SSJ, the only plane with the SAM146 up to now, wants to get rid of the SSJ. The flying customers love the SSJ, the only problem is that it ain't flying because of all the reliability issues with the engine.

Maybe the PD8 or PD10 will work but as these are not flying yet it will take 3 years to test and certify them.

FORGET about an alternative Beriev engine until there actually is one.
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Old June 21st, 2019, 03:04 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sponge_bob View Post
When the SSJ was in service with Interjet and Cityjet, running that engine, it was hard to get parts so they were forced to ground them.
To start with... SSJ IS in service with Interjet.
By total coincidence, Interjet started to have problems with SSJs right after they faced the lack of spots. So they were forced to ground many (not all) of their SSJ's and some A320s too.
Free and independent press tells you about SSJs but forgets to mention A320s, as well as they forget to provide any official confirmations from Interjet.
...you can easily find official denials..but who cares?

CityJet - similar story... through mergers and acquisitions company gets not just new management and shareholders, but also a whole fleet of CRJs and faces THE NEED to get rid of SSJs... only after that, by total coincidence again, they've suffered multiple technical problems.

I am not saying that SaM's reliability, or Sukhoi's technical support are best in industry. I'm just saying that when Sukhoi manages to sell more 100-seater airplanes then all it's competitors combined (!) we can expect to witness any dirty methods of unfair competition.
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Old June 21st, 2019, 03:30 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by Kosolap View Post
I am not saying that SaM's reliability, or Sukhoi's technical support are best in industry. I'm just saying that when Sukhoi manages to sell more 100-seater airplanes then all it's competitors combined (!) we can expect to witness any dirty methods of unfair competition.
When they sell all those planes, yes. That would not be today though. Meanwhile only a scanty few SSJs are flying today and not for long either.

Nobody wants the SAM146, or at least nobody west of Petersburg does. This is tragic as the SSJ is otherwise A rather good plane by any standards.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/ar...-fleet-456890/

Quote:
Fifteen of Interjet's 22 SSJ100s are in storage while only seven aircraft remain in service, Cirium's Fleets Analyzer shows. The stored aircraft were parked as early as April 2018, although about half of the 15 aircraft went into storage in the second half of 2018. Since the year began, Interjet has parked two more SSJ100s, the database shows.

Dozens of PowerJet SaM146 engines are out of service as Interjet has not paid for engine repairs, say sources who spoke on condition of anonymity. "Threats are exchanged, but no solution is visible," a source tells FlightGlobal. PowerJet did not respond to questions from FlightGlobal.
We know nothing about the PD8 or PD10 yet, it has never flown or tested out. Until there is a reliable engine nobody will want a Beriev with a SAM146 engine as a stopgap. A western customer could source the original engines separately but that would be too much hassle as the engine supplier and the frame supplier appear not to be talking to each other so nobody would be daft enough to get involved in such a dysfunctional contract.

Last edited by sponge_bob; June 21st, 2019 at 03:39 PM.
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