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Old November 17th, 2015, 06:51 AM   #21
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somehow, I can't see Russia and China sticking together for the entire project. I've a feeling one or the other will split and do it on their own.
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Old November 17th, 2015, 09:32 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Deadeye Reloaded View Post
China hasn´t produced a successful car for the world market yet and they want to builld own planes now?

They should concentrate on things they can really good like mobiles and computers and let aviation to the big boys.
In a major milestone, GM mulls selling Chinese-made cars in US

"If China's economy picks up and demand there recovers, GM may have to build the vehicle here in the US," he said, adding the Envision may even end up becoming a part of the US presidential campaign.

"There will be rhetoric on this in the campaign, particularly from Donald Trump."

McAlinden went further, suggesting Trump has "already bashed Ford for building plants in Mexico".

"That will probably be the extent of the political fallout. No one else in any party has taken such an interest in the issue."

Stephanie Brinley, a senior analyst with IHS, said: "Building close to where you sell is sound strategy and expected to remain the first choice-but in some cases, the volume justification means importing is the better solution. This appears to be true in the case of Buick."

She said that it was certainly conceivable another manufacturer may make a similar decision in the future, but that GM's move is not "necessarily indicative of an overall shift" of auto manufacturing from North America to China.

"Buick already imports some of its products, and reports are saying that Buick expects to sell about 30,000 to 40,000 units per year-while that volume will be notable for Buick's US sales, it is a fraction of GM's sales and manufacturing," said Brinley.

"GM will continue to source the majority of its North American products from plants in North America; if the car is imported, it is not expected to portend a large shift of US auto manufacturing to China. GM's overall import volume to the US, from any country outside NAFTA, was only about 92,000 vehicles in 2014."

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/busines...22468052_2.htm
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Old November 17th, 2015, 09:35 AM   #23
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Nobody gets big by thinking and acting small.
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Old November 17th, 2015, 01:31 PM   #24
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If just the Chinese, and Russian airlines buy the wide body air frames it will be a success. Not to mention not being reliant on foreign companies, and governments.

The 919 could also sell thousands of air frames.
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Old November 17th, 2015, 04:43 PM   #25
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If just the Chinese, and Russian airlines buy the wide body air frames it will be a success. Not to mention not being reliant on foreign companies, and governments.

The 919 could also sell thousands of air frames.
Russia will likely not purchase the 919 because it'll push its own MC-21 which is pretty much the same class.

It's currently being assembled
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Old November 19th, 2015, 09:39 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by kunming tiger View Post
It's not a contest of Airbus and Boeing in the red corner and upstart Comac in the blue corner. It's more like Airbus and Boeing in the red corner and the Chinese Communist Party in the red corner with the latter being able to tap into huge resources.

Case in point High Speed Rail ten years ago the Chinese were nowehere nowdays they are pushing their HSR to all corners. Eventually they will dominate the market for HSR due to their competitive advantages.

Post 2020 the Chinese Aviation Market will be the most lucrative in the world , They will simply push you out of their domestic market then expand progressively overseas. All said and done Airbus and Boeing are private corporations they don't contol the second largest economy in the world.

China inc is not to be taken lightly as for making cars to sell on world markets the Chinese automotive market is the largest in the world by units sold annually foreign automakers are forming JV with local carmakers to get a foothold in the market. THe Chinese sell plenty of cars in the local market and get the benefit of technology and knowledge transfer from their foreign partners. Foreign automakers need China more than China needs foriegn automakers. I suspect the same logic will apply once the C919 and its successors get airborne.

As for sticking to what they are good at their logic is if it has been done before then it can be done again just faster and cheaper. The Chinese don;t outsmart you they outwork you, out compete you. This cloak of invincibility , the assumption that the victory is assured because of their inherent superiority in all aspects. Post 2030 I expect them to be in a much stronger position.

It's not just the Chinese moving into the aviation market but also the Japanese as well and with the recent announcement of a JV between China and Russia there are three major players here.
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Nobody gets big by thinking and acting small.
Well said.
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Old November 20th, 2015, 08:49 PM   #27
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That won't work since goes against WTO regulations. A state funded project for commercial market goes against capitalism and will always be targeted by WTO.
Both Airbus and Boeing are indirectly state funded, the same goes for Bombardier and Embraer, they use all kinds of mecanisms to hide it but essentially they are all state funded.
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Old December 10th, 2015, 06:54 PM   #28
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<UAC’s engineering team is responsible for design of the new aircraft’s wing, empennage and aerodynamic surfaces, which will be made of composite materials. The wingspan is expected to be some 360 feet, with the first example due to be ready sometime around 2019-2020. Overall, the airframe is expected to be composed around 50 percent of composite materials and 15 percent titanium.>

360ft wingspan? Wow!
That must be one garguantan plane. But it's not right.
The widest wingspan record is the WWII era Hughes Hercules flying boat at a tad below 321ft.
The world's largest aircraft is the Antonov An-225Mriya with 280ft span.
The biggest airliner, the Airbus A380 spread out at 261'9"
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Old November 3rd, 2016, 03:24 PM   #29
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COMAC / UAC | C929

South China Morning Post Excerpt
China, Russia join the crowded sky: wide-body planes to cut reliance on Airbus, Boeing
China’s domestic aircraft maker Comac and Russia’s United Aircraft Corp unveiled the model of a twin-engine, wide-body plane at the Zhuhai Air Show
November 3, 2016

China’s state-run plane manufacturer said it’s in talks with Russia to develop and build a wide body commercial jet that can break the duopoly long held by Airbus and Boeing in civilian aircraft.

The Commercial Aircraft Corporation of China, also called Comac, is in talks with Russia’s United Aircraft Corporation (UAC) to produce a twin-aisle, long-haul commercial aircraft, said the Chinese company’s assistant president Guo BoZhi, during the Zhuhai Air Show this week.

The new aircraft, which doesn’t have a name, will be designed to compete in the same category as Airbus’ A-330 and A-350 models, as well as Boeing’s 777 and 787 models.

The Chinese aircraft will adopt advanced aerodynamic design and engines with low fuel burn to make them more efficient and more economical for airlines to operate, he said.

“We aim to make the direct operating cost of our new wide-body jet 10 per cent lower than our competitors,” Guo said.

A model of the proposed aircraft was unveiled in Zhuhai, displaying its logo with UAC’s name. The aircraft will come in three variants, with up to 280 seats in standard configuration, and a maximum range of 6,480 nautical miles (12,000 kilometres). The model may be named the C929 if Comac follows the 9X9 mnemonic tradition of its aircraft series.

China is one of the latest entrants in the competition to develop home made aircraft, eyeing the technological prestige and job creation associated with making planes.
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Old November 6th, 2016, 02:50 PM   #30
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Good looking plane
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Old November 6th, 2016, 05:27 PM   #31
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787 / A350 love child :>
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Old November 12th, 2016, 09:57 PM   #32
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787 / A350 love child :>

Obligatory remark
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Old October 2nd, 2017, 03:47 AM   #33
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Russian-Chinese aircraft - CR 929



Quote:
Russia's United Aircraft has revealed that the new widebody aircraft it will make in conjunction with China's Comac will be called the CR 929 and feature three variants.

The CR 929-600 will be the baseline version of the aircraft, says UAC. There will also be a "junior version" designed the CR 929-500, and a "senior version" designated CR 929-700.

The -600 will have passenger capacity of 280 seats in a three class configuration with a range of 12,000km.

A shorter -500 will carry 250 passengers in three-classes, but with a range of 14,000km.

The longest variant of the CR 929, the 929-700, will have passenger capacity of 320 in a three class layout, and a range of 10,000km.

UAC says that the 'CR' denotes China and Russia's joint involvement in the programme. President of the Russian planemaker, Yuri Slusar, addsthat the number '9' in the designation denotes the symbol of eternity in Chinese culture.
"The CR 929 name for the family makes it possible to propose it together with the Chinese narrow-body jet С919, whereas the numbering of each family member continues the numbering of airliners available in UAC’s commercial aircraft portfolio – from MS-21-200/300/400 to CR 929 – 500/600/700,” he says.

Officials from the two companies made the announcement at Comac's headquarters in Shanghai.

Chinese and Russian officials have discussed the programme for some years, and in May set up a joint venture company called China-Russia Commercial Aircraft Corporation (CRAIC) to develop the new aircraft.

CRAIC is based in Shanghai and will oversee all aspects of the programme, including technology development, manufacturing, marketing, sales, customer services, and programme management. In Moscow, UAC will host a joint design centre.
The aircraft's composite wings and empennage will be produced in Russia, while Comac will produce the fuselage and perform final assembly in Shanghai. Russia will also produce the tail section.

During a briefing at the Paris air show, UAC showed a chart indicating that approval of concept for the widebody should take place in 2017, followed by early configuration and preliminary design in 2018.

Design documentation is slated for 2021, followed by first flight in 2023, before the aircraft enters service two years later.

Initially, the aircraft will be powered by an engine from one of the major Western engine makers, such as Rolls-Royce or General Electric.

An indigenous power plant will also be developed. Russia's United Engine Corporation and China's commercial aircraft engine firm AECC recently signed a preliminary agreement on developing an engine to power the CR 929 family.

Under the proposed schedule the engine would commence testing in 2022 and secure certification in 2027.
Quote:
In May 2016 began the development of a 35 tf (77,000 lbf) Russian engine Aviadvigatel PD-35 for the twinjet, expected to enter service in 2025
Quote:
UAC’s newly built 463,000-sq-ft engineering center at Zhukovsky, near Moscow, will house Chinese and Russian engineers working on the program.
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Shares in the company Russia / China - 50% - 50%



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Old October 2nd, 2017, 08:47 AM   #34
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That C929 looks same as B787
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Old October 2nd, 2017, 12:38 PM   #35
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Quote:
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That C929 looks same as B787
Tail and wingtips do look like the A350 as well.
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Old October 3rd, 2017, 01:11 AM   #36
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Old December 26th, 2017, 10:09 PM   #37
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CR 929 program passes critical design review

The Board of Directors of China-Russia Commercial Aircraft International Corporation (CRAIC), the joint venture between Russia’s United Aircraft Corporation (UAC) and China’s COMAC, has approved the critical design review (CDR) of the widebody long-haul airliner family dubbed CR 929, to be designed jointly by the two countries. UAC confirms that the program has passed the Gate 2 milestone and is now moving into the next development phase.

The board also approved the associated organizational structure and regulatory documents, including CRAIC’s statute and budget. The company was registered in China in late March 2017, and was inaugurated by the Chinese and Russian partners in Shanghai in May.

The next stage, to begin in 2018 and continue until mid-2019, will involve defining the design and selecting system and equipment suppliers. The current completion deadline is slightly behind the initial schedule, which called for Q4 2018 or Q1 2019.

A UAC source revealed that CRAIC is taking full control of the program starting from 2018, just as planned earlier. This year, the effort has been jointly managed by working groups within the UAC and COMAC.
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Old December 27th, 2017, 01:31 AM   #38
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Does anyone know about new aircraft? Which airlines who has already orders CR-929? When they will be at final assembly, rollout date, and a few other things, as well.
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Old December 27th, 2017, 09:22 AM   #39
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In 2019, the first firm contracts are expected to be concluded. The first flight should take place no later than 2022. Deliveries of serial aircraft to customers will begin in 10-12 years after the launch of the project, approximately in 2026-27. The whole program is designed to 2045. The price of the is $ 113.5-117.8 million, in the first year it should be 20% cheaper than competitors
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Old January 31st, 2018, 02:59 PM   #40
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A major milestone in the #CR929 program as manufacturing tests of full-scale 15 x 6 meter composite fuselage panels were successfully completed, with follow-up tests showing good results. These composite components will enable the CR929 to reduce weight and increase efficiency


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