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Old December 7th, 2018, 01:17 PM   #1
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LA PAZ | Public Transport

How cable-car systems are revolutionizing public transport almost 12,000 feet above sea level
The Bolivian city of La Paz is located almost 12,000 feet above sea-level.
Its cable car system was launched in 2014 and has changed the way people get around.

CNBC Excerpt
Dec 7, 2018

Located almost 12,000 feet above sea level, the Bolivian city of La Paz is a bustling place where the air is thin and the scenery dramatic.

Its Mi Teleferico – which literally translates as "my cable car" – transit system was launched in 2014. It soars above city streets and buildings to transport thousands of people to and from their homes, offices and everything else in between.

"Every day more than 230,000 people are … transported through this cable transportation system," Cesar Dockweiler, the CEO of Mi Teleferico, told CNBC's "Sustainable Energy."

"We have managed to transport more than 150 million people in less than four years," he added. "It is a transport system that has really transformed people's lives."

Mi Teleferico is not the only cable car system in Latin America. The Colombian city of Medellin opened its Metrocable system in 2004, for example.

Apart from the fact that a cable car's route is both picturesque and uninterrupted, there are other benefits to using one.

The Bartlett Development Planning Unit, part of University College London, has stated that the "speed and comparatively low cost of construction, and low levels of particulate emissions of aerial cable-cars, are part of their appeal in dense and hilly urban areas."

Back in La Paz, those involved with Mi Teleferico are keen to emphasize its sustainability credentials.

More : https://www.cnbc.com/2018/12/07/how-...in-la-paz.html
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Old December 8th, 2018, 09:16 AM   #2
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I've seen pictures of the system and it looks great. Good for La Paz for thinking outside the transit box.
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Old December 8th, 2018, 12:04 PM   #3
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Cable cars as public transit is nothing new to the world

My country has been using them as public transit from 1953, many lines in Chiatura and Tbilisi as well as cable car connecting two towns, Sighnaghi and Tsnori.
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Old December 8th, 2018, 01:44 PM   #4
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It is on that scale of La Paz. Nothing in the world compares to that. Chiatura and Tbilisi do not either.

Those are not only multistop aerial cable cars but they form a larger network together.


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...La_Paz.svg.png
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Old December 8th, 2018, 03:58 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slartibartfas View Post
It is on that scale of La Paz. Nothing in the world compares to that. Chiatura and Tbilisi do not either.

Those are not only multistop aerial cable cars but they form a larger network together.


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...La_Paz.svg.png
I know I am a part of creating that map.

We talk about using able propelled transit as public transit.
That is not "know how" nor new to the world


For South America is is, but for us it is not.
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Old December 8th, 2018, 04:53 PM   #6
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Are there any plans for a light rail or bus in the surrounding areas?
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Old December 9th, 2018, 01:15 PM   #7
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The technology as such is not new at all, indeed. The system has been constructed by the Austrian company Doppelmayer after all (ok, nowadays it is an Austrian-Swiss group after a merger). The implementation however certainly posed new challenges not faced before. I mean having 4 stations on a single line is something I am not aware to exist anywhere else. It is also a very high capacity service for a cable car.

I do think that the cable car is a great and actually the most efficient way of connecting El Alto with La Paz. For a larger network however I am not so sure. In my opinion it would be important to add some light rail lines to routes where geography allows it, of course interconnected with the cable car lines.

I do see however how this is a very challenging thing to do. You need a separate right of way, otherwise the trams will be bogged down in the traffic nightmare. This would need the reduction of car lanes however or massively expensive underground construction.

Probably El Alto would have the greatest potential for a few light rail lines, connecting the expansive city to the Mi Teleferico stations. El Alto is completely flat and has some wide artery streetways as well.
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Old December 9th, 2018, 02:41 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slartibartfas View Post
The technology as such is not new at all, indeed. The system has been constructed by the Austrian company Doppelmayer after all (ok, nowadays it is an Austrian-Swiss group after a merger). The implementation however certainly posed new challenges not faced before. I mean having 4 stations on a single line is something I am not aware to exist anywhere else. It is also a very high capacity service for a cable car.
There is absolutely no difference how many station will be, the way they are implemented is the same, will there be one 2 or 3 or 4 or even 11 the technology of the intermediate stations is the same.

Capacity also is nothing surreal there, all the lines with 3000 pphpd and only two lines with 4000 pphpd.

Monocable gondola with 4500 pphpd capacity already existed in Austria so nothing special. At it depends on the number of cabins and station length.

Also nothing special.

Challenges not faced before? Which exactly? Building an Urban gondola is far easier than a gondola in mountains with terrible terrain.
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Old December 9th, 2018, 05:03 PM   #9
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The underlying technology is not new but I doubt reality is such a simple cookie cutting excercise as you make it out to be. Having so many stations, and such a high turnover number definitely adds new challenges in construction and even much more so in operation.

Like I said, I do not claim they invented the wheel anew but the level and scale of such a true network of gondolas as the primary means of rapid public transportation was a first. As such it faces challenges that are different from gondolas which are merely a nice extra added to the backbone of some other means of public transportation.

I doubt that building in an urban environment is easier than in mountainous terrain. But the challenges are of very different nature for sure.


PS: If it is possible to have a system with 11 stations at maybe 1 km spacing, why aren't they doing it, why don't they exist?
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Old December 9th, 2018, 06:18 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slartibartfas View Post
The underlying technology is not new but I doubt reality is such a simple cookie cutting excercise as you make it out to be. Having so many stations, and such a high turnover number definitely adds new challenges in construction and even much more so in operation.

Like I said, I do not claim they invented the wheel anew but the level and scale of such a true network of gondolas as the primary means of rapid public transportation was a first. As such it faces challenges that are different from gondolas which are merely a nice extra added to the backbone of some other means of public transportation.

I doubt that building in an urban environment is easier than in mountainous terrain. But the challenges are of very different nature for sure.


PS: If it is possible to have a system with 11 stations at maybe 1 km spacing, why aren't they doing it, why don't they exist?
Because 11 stations are not needed for now. No one needs lines with so many stations cause it is gondola not a metro.

It is not important if it is a network only of gondolas or it is a supplementary lines to the metro for example.

The system is the same, the designing process, also building too and operating too.

It would be some KHOW HOW if they would invent for example gondolas crossing but in La Paz or any other city with gondolas there is no technical innovations or abnormalities different from ski resort gondolas. Same system, same technology, same manufacturers.
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Old December 10th, 2018, 12:26 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Tramwayman View Post
Because 11 stations are not needed for now. No one needs lines with so many stations cause it is gondola not a metro.
Your response makes no sense in the case of La Paz.

They have already 3 subsequent lines and even plan to make a direct line of a friggin 5 lines after each other. As the city has no other rapid public transportation it would of course make perfect sense to have a continuous line if possible. The time saving could easily add up to 20-30 min for cross city trips along those lines.

Question is, why did they not extend lines or build longer ones to begin with if it were that easy. This is either bad planning or you are giving a wrong picture about the technical possibilities.

Quote:
It is not important if it is a network only of gondolas or it is a supplementary lines to the metro for example.

The system is the same, the designing process, also building too and operating too.
The rush hour stress alone is fundamentally different if the gondolas are the PT backbonre or rather some spare time fun activity or limited branch connection. The difference is like day and night, not in regards how the gondola technology works but how you handle the operation and how the stations need to be designed.

This is an application that has not existed before and it of course needs certain know how that other gondola applications don't need. Just because the know how is not about the gondola technology additional aspects doesn't mean it isn't know how. As far as I have heard, the operators learned a lot during the initial time of operation and there were challenges and flaws hat could be addressed with better know how on how to operate such a system for this new application, as backbone PT network of a major city.
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Old December 10th, 2018, 11:05 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slartibartfas View Post
Your response makes no sense in the case of La Paz.

They have already 3 subsequent lines and even plan to make a direct line of a friggin 5 lines after each other. As the city has no other rapid public transportation it would of course make perfect sense to have a continuous line if possible. The time saving could easily add up to 20-30 min for cross city trips along those lines.

Question is, why did they not extend lines or build longer ones to begin with if it were that easy. This is either bad planning or you are giving a wrong picture about the technical possibilities.



The rush hour stress alone is fundamentally different if the gondolas are the PT backbonre or rather some spare time fun activity or limited branch connection. The difference is like day and night, not in regards how the gondola technology works but how you handle the operation and how the stations need to be designed.

This is an application that has not existed before and it of course needs certain know how that other gondola applications don't need. Just because the know how is not about the gondola technology additional aspects doesn't mean it isn't know how. As far as I have heard, the operators learned a lot during the initial time of operation and there were challenges and flaws hat could be addressed with better know how on how to operate such a system for this new application, as backbone PT network of a major city.
They did not built longer lines cause then you pay only once
It is not economicaly feasable.

When you introduce gondola in a country that has never seen cable cars they need to leardn everything.

But that does not have anything to do with the technology, it is the same used for years.
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Old December 10th, 2018, 11:53 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tramwayman View Post
But that does not have anything to do with the technology, it is the same used for years.
But the argument is that no large city has ever used gondalas as a network on this scale. Sure, they haven't invented any new technology, but using them as a main part of the public transport system on this scale is something unique to La Paz
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Old December 10th, 2018, 01:51 PM   #14
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But the argument is that no large city has ever used gondalas as a network on this scale. Sure, they haven't invented any new technology, but using them as a main part of the public transport system on this scale is something unique to La Paz
No other large city needs that, because they are not that poor as La Paz and can finance LRT or BRT where needed or even subway.

La Paz already has ques on some Gondola lines, the system is reaching it's projected capacity and this is a problem.
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Old January 1st, 2019, 06:52 PM   #15
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So, any new updates on the cable car systems?
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Old January 1st, 2019, 08:55 PM   #16
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So, any new updates on the cable car systems?
Brown line operational since 20 December.
Silver line under construction, opening in first half of March 2019.
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