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View Poll Results: which Crown should be chosen?
Adrian Smith Gordon gill 60 82.19%
Wilkinson Eyre 10 13.70%
Kohn Pederesn Fox 3 4.11%
Voters: 73. You may not vote on this poll

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Old February 28th, 2012, 01:29 PM   #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MILIUX
We should have more canals, not less. Personally I want a canal going down George Street as part of pedestrianisation.
It isn't Venice...
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Old February 28th, 2012, 01:51 PM   #122
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But this way, you would have an excuse to turn up at work in budgie smugglers. I'm all for it!
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Old February 28th, 2012, 02:18 PM   #123
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the coves staying so forget that idea. where i placed hotel is basically only site for it
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Old February 28th, 2012, 05:45 PM   #124
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Perhaps we should start a separate thread for Packers's proposed casino? Given its now clear this is a separate proposal to the relocated hotel?
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Old February 28th, 2012, 05:46 PM   #125
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From today's SMH 29/2/12

Keating warns Packer over casino site plan

Sean Nicholls, Matthew Moore February 29, 2012


Paul Keating ... says a casino should not be built on an area ear-marked for public space. Photo: Nic Walker

THE former prime minister Paul Keating has warned James Packer that his planned hotel and casino complex at Barangaroo should not be built on an area earmarked for public open space.

Mr Keating, a former chairman of the Barangaroo Design Excellence Review Panel, met Mr Packer yesterday to discuss his proposal, under which a new high rise, six-star hotel would be constructed in the middle of the 22-hectare development site.

In a statement released last night, Mr Keating said he had taken Mr Packer through the history of the Barangaroo site and its design principles.

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''I told him that the principal civic dividend from the project was its near 60 per cent public open space … and that I regarded the public amenity of these lands as inviolate,'' Mr Keating said.

He said Mr Packer told him Crown proposed to include two or three floors of gaming tables within the hotel, but that it would otherwise ''present as any hotel building would'' because the rest would be for bedrooms or apartments.

However, Mr Keating advised he would need to negotiate with Lend Lease to build the hotel in the southern precinct of Barangaroo, which it controls under a 99-year lease.
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Old February 28th, 2012, 09:18 PM   #126
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That should keep my hopes up for it on the pier.
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Old February 28th, 2012, 10:42 PM   #127
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^it wont be going on the peir fabs.

keating says maybe 100m more south for the packer hotel and may get a look in

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Old February 29th, 2012, 12:35 AM   #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CULWULLA View Post
the coves staying so forget that idea. where i placed hotel is basically only site for it
The opportunity to build a world class skyscraper hotel must be taken!

I loved the original pier location, but it won't work politically,

I hate the "hotel in the park" idea, We need that space for some kick ass cultural institutions...and I don't think the location will work politically anyway...

I really really like your suggestion of the space in front of R4, AND
It's definitely a politically workable location.

Cul, have a word to Clover for us will you?
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Old February 29th, 2012, 03:47 AM   #129
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If the hotel were built as Lend Lease's hotel, and an integrated entertainment precinct (i.e. casino, restaurants, shops etc) were built in the location Cul has described...I'd be more supportive. It is a much better location and would look like less of a tack on. It would also leave adequate space for cultural, educational and residential development in Barangaroo Central (as well as open space). Provided it's taller than the residential towers next to it (~170m and 130m), it will also provide a dramatic point of reference when looking south from the Headland Park, as well as obviously the central precinct.

However it would still cause issues with street activation and would shade the cove for most of the day. It'd be interesting to see some more detailed concepts in the months ahead.
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Old February 29th, 2012, 03:48 AM   #130
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The bad thing about the casino proposal is that it will not prove popular with voters, and many people will see CloMo's vocal objections and remember them when the local elections come around...
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Old February 29th, 2012, 05:09 AM   #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Squire View Post
The opportunity to build a world class skyscraper hotel must be taken!

I loved the original pier location, but it won't work politically,

I hate the "hotel in the park" idea, We need that space for some kick ass cultural institutions...and I don't think the location will work politically anyway...

I really really like your suggestion of the space in front of R4, AND
It's definitely a politically workable location.

Cul, have a word to Clover for us will you?
Yes, but who cares about politics, it's not like the NSW Labor government will be getting back into state politics any time soon. The liberal state goverment have the ability to make tough decisons and do as they please.

We could easily be building the hotel in the harbour. The park is one large waste of space and I doubt a couple of cultural instutions are going to make it anymore activated. The concept plan lurches from one bad idea to the next. We should have had a fully master-planned Barangaroo from the start. This is just a constantly evolving **** up.
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Old February 29th, 2012, 06:13 AM   #132
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**** open space, casino and apartment towers galore plerz!
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Old February 29th, 2012, 06:16 AM   #133
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architecture&design

A former PM, government architect and Sydney mayor challenge Packer's Barangaroo casino plans

29 February 2012 | by Madeline Prince


James Packer’s plan to raise his share in Echo Entertainment in order to develop a destination Casino in Barangaroo has received mixed responses from developers, architects and past politicians alike.

Packer has revealed plans for the development of a 350-room six star hotel and casino which would be located in Barangaroo Central, which has been earmarked for civic, educational and recreational uses.

In order to do this, Packer would have to gain control of Echo as they hold the rights to the only casino in Sydney- Star City and to open another one it would need to be done under Echo’s banner.

Chris Johnson is a former government architect and judge of the original architectural competition for the site as well as head of the developer lobby group Urban Taskforce. He told the Sydney Morning Herald:

''We have to be careful it does not look like it's totally on its own” Johnson said in reference to the proposed northern positioning of the hotel and casino.

He went on to say:

“''There has to be some process calling for bids rather than one just arriving from outer space.''

Former chairman of the Barangaroo Design Excellence Review Panel and ex Prime-Minister Paul Keating weighed in on the debate after a meeting with Packer

''I told him that the principal civic dividend from the project was its near 60 per cent public open space … and that I regarded the public amenity of these lands as inviolate,'' Mr Keating said.

Sydney Lord Mayor Clover Moore criticised the development calling it ‘clumsy’ and ‘Dubai-style hotel’

The Sydney Morning Herald said that Moore questioned the supportive nature of Premier Barry O’Farrell who described the proposal as ‘exciting’.
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Old February 29th, 2012, 07:07 AM   #134
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Good to see Keating getting on board with Packer.

I would also have to say that Packer will probably be keen to negotiate. He wants it more than anything at the moment.

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Perhaps we should start a separate thread for Packers's proposed casino? Given its now clear this is a separate proposal to the relocated hotel?
It will not be a separate proposal because Crown would get the right to manage the Barangaroo hotel.
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Old February 29th, 2012, 07:13 AM   #135
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Hmm, the down side of Keating's support is Keating doesn't want two hotels, he wants to favour the Crown Hotel over the Lend Lease hotel.
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Old February 29th, 2012, 07:15 AM   #136
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Nowhere have I heard that there are two hotels. I believe that Packer has presented this as an alternative to the "floating" hotel.
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Old February 29th, 2012, 07:18 AM   #137
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The park is a big fat waste of prime real estate im sure everybody knows this and its only there for political reasons. You would have to be incredible stupid to think its there because its "better planning."

I like the hotel there the towers should extend north as much as possible. Casino haters are probably not casino goers therefore their opinion does not count.

At first I thought this would be the same hotel as the LL one; however the article says that LL refused to take on Packer's hotel so Packers was forced to come up with his own proposal (or something along those lines RE: article) So this would be FANTASTIC two 200m plus 6 star hotels imagine what that would do to the skyline on top of economy/street level activity etc!!!
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Old February 29th, 2012, 07:31 AM   #138
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Quote:
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The park is a big fat waste of prime real estate im sure everybody knows this and its only there for political reasons. You would have to be incredible stupid to think its there because its "better planning."
It's a park designed by one of the worlds best landscape designers, with experience working on the World Trade Center memorial (which was also a Lend Lease project). The plan is a naturalistic form to resemble Australia's beautiful natural bush. And the space underneath the park will be come a cultural building, most likely an art gallery or indigenous museum. Considering we get a park and a cultural building, I do not see how you can call it a waste of prime real estate.

Also this is the headland area, Barangaroo Central is different and is supposed to be low rise education, retail and cultural buildings. This is what we have to lose if the casino is to be in this location, even though it is a more ideal location in so far as what's good for the aesthetics of the skyline and city.

Quote:
At first I thought this would be the same hotel as the LL one; however the article says that LL refused to take on Packer's hotel so Packers was forced to come up with his own proposal (or something along those lines RE: article) So this would be FANTASTIC two 200m plus 6 star hotels imagine what that would do to the skyline on top of economy/street level activity etc!!!
Yes, considering that this is a new hotel concept, I assumed that Lend Lease had not yet given up their concept, and that there is the possibility of having both.
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Last edited by Mornnb; February 29th, 2012 at 07:39 AM.
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Old February 29th, 2012, 08:38 AM   #139
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It's become clear that if the casino/hotel is to get off the ground, it will have to be the Lend Lease proposed hotel and it is becoming increasingly obvious (all but official) that the Lend Lease hotel will be located on the northern side of the cove.
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Old February 29th, 2012, 02:03 PM   #140
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Packer/Crown has the will, the connections, the money, the resources, the tenacity and the experience to make this work.
I don't have positive or negative feelings about the casino element (especially as it has no pokies and is focussed at those who have extra money to burn, not money which should be spent on other things), and I'm pretty sure the design is at early concept stage. But considering the limited retail/entertainment options being proposed for the rest of the site, this may well be one of our best opportunities for a vibrant precinct.
Plus, because of the controversial elements of the proposal being in a "cultural zone", the government could probably extract some concessions like the funding of some of these facilities (especially those which could incur box office sales, entry fees etc).
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