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Old August 26th, 2005, 03:17 PM   #41
Jimmy James
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Episode II: Attack of the Greens

It is a dark time for the Commonwealth...

Many of you have by now read the first exciting thread: Episode I: The Phantom NIMBY

And you've all been waiting breathlessly for the second exciting chapter. Like any good story the first act is all set up introducing the characters (in this case NIMBYs, well the second act introduces the problem.

You see the NIMBYs have an all-powerful ally, more powerful than even the sith in their ability to cloud one's vision and distort the truth. Yes folks - I'm talking about Greenies...
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Old August 26th, 2005, 03:25 PM   #42
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Read on as respected demographer Bernard Salt takes us into the past to expose the way environmentalism has prevented projects in the national interest from going ahead.

Recent years have seen the country preoccupied with the shortage of water - but nobody seems to want to touch the obvious solution. Read here how NIMBYs unwashed ally - the Greenie has kept Australia dry for over 20 years...

The setting is Tasmania, hence why we're in this thread...



Franklin my dear, I don't give a dam
Bernard Salt
August 25, 2005

AUSTRALIAN environmentalists won an important victory in 1982. As a consequence of protests by the fledgling green movement, the proposal to dam Tasmania's Franklin River was withdrawn.

Not only did this action save the Franklin, it also set the political agenda for the next two, and possibly up to five, decades.

And the reason for this extraordinary impact from one green campaign is this: no political leader since that event has proposed the building of a major new dam to service metropolitan Australia.

The last new dam added to the water reserves of metropolitan Australia was Sydney's Tallowa, completed in 1977.

State politicians believe that the surest way to be voted out of office is to propose the building of a new dam, so they avoid the subject altogether. State premiers don't like using the d-word.

The political response is to find a solution, any solution, rather than build a new dam, and indeed to remove the whole dam concept from political debate: Out damned dams!

The environmental lobby has skilfully manoeuvred middle Australia to a no-dams policy without having to go through the tedium of public debate.

To suggest that it might be appropriate to build one new dam for Sydney every half-century or so is to risk being labelled a redneck by environmentalists. Well I think it is now time to have that debate.

The sometimes scrambled logic of the green movement is spreading by osmosis.

In the bathrooms of Sydney's Westin Hotel a green card explains that in order to "help the environment" guests staying more than one night are encouraged to reuse towels. No further explanation is provided.

All this hotel needs to do is invoke the spirit of "the environment" and guests respond.

I don't mind reusing towels, but at least explain the link to the environment.

For example, washing towels uses precious water. But if the water is recycled then what does it matter?

Washing towels releases detergents into the storm-water system; so use bio-degradable detergent. Washing towels consumes electricity from coal-fired power stations that contribute to the greenhouse effect.

Oh, please!. Me using a fresh towel each day heats up the planet!

The real reason why the Westin and other hotels want guests to reuse towels is to reduce costs. This is a cost-saving exercise dressed up as concern for the environment.

In today's world of transparency and accountability, I say come clean and state upfront that the reuse of towels would be appreciated to reduce costs.

This approach of using "the environment" as an excuse for other, usually financial, objectives seems to have been behind Sydney's water strategy, released in October last year. This strategy, announced by the then NSW premier Bob Carr, outlined how the city's water needs would be met over the next 25 years.

Water would be pumped from lower down in the Warragamba Dam.

Water would be siphoned from the Shoalhaven River (although this is being met with local resistance).

A desalination plant would be investigated, and water conservation and education measures would continue to be promoted.

Mr Carr dismissed the idea of a new dam in one paragraph in the foreword to the strategy: it would cost too much (more than $2 billion, apparently); it would take many years to fill (about 10 years); and it would harm the environment.

A new dam has not been added to Sydney's reserves for 27 years and is now off the agenda for another 25 years.

I think there are two reasons why Sydney's water strategy did not include a new dam.

The first politician to suggest a new dam gets dumped at the next election by an electorate driven by populist environmental views, even though it can be argued that a new dam is precisely what is required to meet the water needs of Sydney.

But the other reason why the d-word isn't an option is because it requires the allocation of at least $2 billion from the state budget.

This no-dam green option neatly side-steps a tough political choice.

If you were premier, which interest group would you rip $2 billion from in order to shore up the water needs of non-voting future generations?

My query regarding Sydney's water strategy is: is raising $2 billion really beyond the means of the most powerful state government in Australia?

Of course it isn't. What about a public-private partnership response. This works for other pieces of major infrastructure.

Taking 10 years to fill a dam just doesn't make sense. So we wait 10 years before water restrictions can be lifted. A dam is forever. What does it matter how long it takes to fill?

Then there is the view that the dam would "harm the environment".

The building of the proposed Welcome Reef dam outside Sydney would drown a river valley; flora and fauna would be lost; there would be down-stream consequences for the environment by restricting water flow.

But do environmental impact studies ever consider positive impacts, or do they only document negative impacts?

If positive effects can be identified, then there is an argument to say that we should consider the concept of a "net environmental impact".

This concept is already in use in town-planning matters, where the economic impact of projects is assessed in net terms.

An adjudicator weighs the merits of each argument and then comes down on the side that offers the greatest net community benefit.

Applied to the Welcome Reef dam, such an assessment would consider the impact on Sydney residents over 50 years of a strategy with the dam but no water restrictions, and without the dam but with water restrictions.

Without the dam, four, and eventually five, million residents of Sydney must daily adjust their lives to accommodate water shortages so as to preserve the bushland and the downstream environment outside the city.

With the dam and no water restrictions this generation of Sydney residents and the next are freed from the daily grind of preserving "every single guilty drop of water".

No water restrictions means that Sydney's 2000sqkm of suburbia becomes greener as residents develop lush foliage around dwellings. Flora and fauna (especially birdlife) flourish in well-watered green suburbs.

The argument is that a greener suburban expanse offsets, at least partially, the footprint of the new dam.

But there are positive social impacts, too.

Water restrictions are socially divisive: they can set neighbour against neighbour watching to ensure there are no breaches.

Water restrictions also raise issues of social equity. The owners of separate houses on separate blocks of land bear the greatest burden of restrictions because they cannot water gardens as efficiently as the body corporate can manage the landscaping around an apartment building.

What I am suggesting is an extension of the "net community benefit" concept, that already applies in town planning disputes, to environmental impact studies.

The development of the Welcome Reef dam will destroy native bushland and will diminish the quality of the environment downstream.

But these negative effects should be balanced against positive effects to determine an overall net community benefit or disbenefit.

This test may well show that the environmental cost of this dam still far outweighs any perceived benefits.

But my point is this: Including positives as well as negatives in consideration of an environmental argument is fairer and, in some cases, might even lead to an alternative conclusion.

By understanding the margin of the net effect (as opposed to the margin of the gross effect) politicians may even be encouraged to take a long-term view and do what is best for the next generation, rather than simply crystallise a short-term opportunity to get themselves across the line at the next election.

Bernard Salt is a Partner with KPMG, [email protected]
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Old December 7th, 2005, 01:00 AM   #43
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Wrest point casino in Hobart now has a new cam. excellent. you can use it yourself to pan ect

http://wphc-webcam.federlite.net
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Old June 29th, 2006, 02:40 AM   #44
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woohoo!
i can see my house from here!
dont need to install a security camera now
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Old February 10th, 2007, 12:27 AM   #45
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has anyone got anymore info on what's happening with this?
There is a big crane next to 188 collins and they seem to be cutting holes in the top section and adding windows or something. It all looks a bit strange, will try and get some photos next time I walk past.
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Old May 24th, 2007, 03:53 PM   #46
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again, any news? looks pretty smick in the proposals!
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Old June 6th, 2007, 03:22 AM   #47
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I read somewhere just last week that this proposal is back from council with a fresh DA so the funds problem which I heard the developer had earlier may have been sorted out, it will be interesting to see if it is going to finally get started soon, there is very little development in a larger scale happening in Tas it seems at present or am I just not looking at the right sites?
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Old June 7th, 2007, 02:47 AM   #48
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what a pity that it's been 3 years and nothing.
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Old September 8th, 2007, 04:53 AM   #49
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TAS - #PROJECTS: Hobart

.. including a 12-storey and a 9-storey building.

http://www.news.com.au/mercury/story...1-3462,00.html

Quote:

City centre shake-up
Article from: The Mercury

September 08, 2007 12:00am

A MULTI-million-dollar development is planned for a prime city block opposite the Royal Hobart Hospital.
The Argyle Street Development proposed by Sultan Holdings Pty Ltd would take up much of the block fronted by Argyle and Liverpool Sts and Wellington Court.

It's the latest project from Ali Sultan, who already has a string of car park and accommodation development sites including Savoy Baths and Market Place Car Park to his name.

Other ventures for the Tasmanian developer include an $8 million motel, caravan park, petrol station and restaurant development at Hobart Airport.

The new project would include a 12-storey building, retail shops, a supermarket and offices.

An extension to the Hobart City Council public car park would be done in partnership with the council.

Demolition of parts of buildings would be required.

Included would be a basement floor, a ground floor with retail, seven levels of parking and four storeys of offices.

The submission to the council with work by JAWS architects includes retaining the qualities of two heritage buildings, at 42 Argyle St and 60 Liverpool St.

"The two significant heritage buildings would be retained, enhanced and given new life," says the plan at the council offices.

"The part of 42 Argyle to be retained would be sympathetically recycled."

The former Webster building at 60 Liverpool St would have its facade retained while the facade and part of the structure at 42 Argyle St would also be kept.

A traffic study has been done for the busy streets.

Submissions relating to the plan must be made to the council by September 19.

In a separate development, under way nearby is a plan for a nine-level building including a Coles supermarket.

The proposal, which has been welcomed by the council, is for a supermarket on the ground floor of a nine-level building housing A-grade office space and a basement car park.

That project is for the corner of Argyle and Melville Sts, replacing an existing warehouse that would be demolished.
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Old September 10th, 2007, 04:25 AM   #50
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excellent, bout time we heard some news from sunny hobart. 12storeys would make emporis, so ill have to find as much as i can on it.
thanks

site
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Old September 18th, 2007, 01:36 PM   #51
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Other new projects

While checking real estate listings recently I found an ad for space being leased in a yet to be constructed 9 story office building in Macquarie Street.
I believe a 12 level hotel has also been approved for Collins St.

One issue which may damage the future growth of Hobart's CBD is the construction of TWO huge retail developments at Cambridge, about 20 minutes drive from the city centre near the airport. One of these is nearly complete and the other, the largest in Australia, is awaiting planning approval.

Also, in the last 20 years the 'mini' CBD at Rosny, East of Hobart, has provided significant new, small scale, office space. Several Govt. departments are located there. If they were in the Hobart CBD the demand of new office space would be much greater.

Anyone know anything about the $50 million privately funded art gallery being built at Morrilla Estate?
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Old September 20th, 2007, 08:06 AM   #52
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9 Storey Office Building


Image found here
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Old September 20th, 2007, 10:26 AM   #53
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Unknown 9 story building

Thanks for that. I don't know whether it has gone to council yet.

I've found some info about Moorilla quoted below. Ok, it's not a skyscraper. It's underground!

"The $55 million, three-level, cliff-face museum is being built by David Walsh near his Moorilla Estate winery, in Berriedale, on the banks of the Derwent River. Dubbed the Museum of Old and New Art (MONA), it was designed by leading Melbourne architecture firm Fender Katsalidis, will open in 2009, house a collection worth more than $100 million, and become Australia's biggest private museum. Not that Walsh has much competition - in Australia, it is rare for private collectors to build not-for-profit galleries to show their collections to the public, especially a collection."

David Walsh is paying all the bills for this one! Quite an investment as there will be no admission charge. It's a gift to Tasmania.

Wonder if he's any good for a loan?
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Old September 22nd, 2007, 04:51 PM   #54
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Nice re: Moorilla museum. I got married in their Museum of Antiquities, as it was at the time
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Old September 24th, 2007, 04:58 PM   #55
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saw the article about the 12-storey and 9-storey buildings, except the 9-storey building proposed in that article isn't for the site that picture is of.
Could it be we are gonna have a few more buildings going up soon? and especially now that a large block right in the CBD has been opened up by the myer fire me thinks something large should go in here to combat the proposed DFO out at cambridge!
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Old September 25th, 2007, 12:57 AM   #56
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Better change this thread title to THREE new buildings for HOBART!!
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Old September 25th, 2007, 05:07 AM   #57
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Myer

Apparently the owners of Myer, in conjunction with a local investment group, have been planning a $200 million re-development of Myer and Cat and Fiddle Arcade. They have indicated that this re-development may be fast-tracked following the fire.
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Old September 25th, 2007, 08:11 AM   #58
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may as well change title to projects.
its great we are finally seeing some action.
ive measured the background office bldg in diagram (commonwealth gov centr at 48m, thus new 9storey bldg = 30m/100ft mark.
ill add all these to emporis
cheers
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Old October 16th, 2007, 05:22 AM   #59
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Hobart 3D Model?

Hi Guys/Girls.

With the recent Hobart Waterfront design competition is was wondering if anyone knows where I could get a 3D model of the Hobart area? (Pref in .3ds format)

There were definately schemes which had the city modeled, I assume that this was provided as part of the competition briefing documents, but can't find anything on the website...

I am looking at doing my major project next semester, and would use the model only for student-based work, not for commercial purposes.

Alternatively if any students or architects in Hobart have a model that they would be happy for me to use that would be fantastic. (I know it is probably a long shot!)

If anybody could provide me with any info, it would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks,

Sam
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Old October 16th, 2007, 10:34 AM   #60
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Have you tried asking the council? would have thought that would have been your best bet.
other than that there may be someone down at centre for spatial info science at uni may be in the know, as I have seen 3D models of the city on posters there
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