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Old December 2nd, 2019, 01:38 AM   #2321
Muitu
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A104 | JKIA-Rironi Highway (Mombasa Road-Uhuru Highway-Waiyaki Way) | U/C

Quote:
Originally Posted by sleekpiano View Post


Shangai does not shy away from elevated roads. They have some many of them.


Numerous. Makes me wonder why guys keep foaming over here yet hizi vitu zinajengwa all over the world presently. Shanghai is an architectural beauty with numerous viaducts and more being done. The ones being torn down around the world are old 1950ís eyesores. Tuambiane ukweli.
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Old December 2nd, 2019, 04:52 AM   #2322
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Originally Posted by sleekpiano View Post
Similar type of project planned in Tampa, Florida

http://www.tampabaynext.com/projects...ay-expressway/


Interesting you brought that up, I tried to keep mum about it :-). It is in my backyard. Actually it is being built on the other side of the bay but will continue over the bridge right through Tampa. We already have two elevated Expressways. Picture Above (Selmon Expressway) is one I use all the time but passes just outside town as you can see in the background
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Old December 2nd, 2019, 05:08 AM   #2323
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Originally Posted by DissidentX View Post
Consumption per Km/litre depends on very many factors not just the speed (type of vehicle, state of maintenance, age, tyres, driving style). also even newer models coming into the market for the last 5 years have start/stop functionality which makes then consume less fuel in traffic.

Also 80km/hr is the Design speed...the posted speed will likely be 60kph as one engineer pointed out.
Of course all those factors come into play. These are just average estimates, a V8 engine would even consume 1kpl in traffic. Traffic on many sections of that road is that crawling type that is not stop and go. Engine start stop is pretty much a luxury car feature that isnt in your typical Axios, fielders, fits e.t.c

My point being, a car consumes much less if it moves at higher speeds through a specific distance.

The express way has some negatives, which some may not even be negatives, but if we dwell so much on them we will stay stuck with the mess that is mombasa road today. There are so many cheap houses in mlolongo syokimau area that people paying high rents near town will move to and have a much cheaper life overall. Tell them that they will have to wait until Kenya can afford a Ksh100b light rail , they will not be amused. Of course there will be nay sayers of that too and this road doesn't prevent KR from building one.

Last edited by osaedu; December 2nd, 2019 at 08:11 AM.
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Old December 2nd, 2019, 08:26 AM   #2324
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Originally Posted by sweetmama View Post
if this road now starts at mlolongo, am wondering what will happen to the massive footbridge currently under construction?
That footbridge is actually pretty wide I think they have put the expressway into consideration
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Old December 2nd, 2019, 06:07 PM   #2325
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Old December 2nd, 2019, 06:16 PM   #2326
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The only time cars stop on toll roads is to pay toll. In fact some toll roads like the one I use everyday are designed so you never stop. The plate is automatically read when you enter and exit and you get billed. I know we can't implement that in Kenya yet but point is expressway is just that, express....
We can implement that. We have the technology in place. NFC tech will allow us to have tap and pay that reduces the stops. You just load units on to whatever device and you will just drive through and money will be deducted automatically. Same thing like Mpesa One-tap.
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Old December 2nd, 2019, 07:49 PM   #2327
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Originally Posted by Muitu View Post
Numerous. Makes me wonder why guys keep foaming over here yet hizi vitu zinajengwa all over the world presently. Shanghai is an architectural beauty with numerous viaducts and more being done. The ones being torn down around the world are old 1950’s eyesores. Tuambiane ukweli.
That is the most disturbing video I've watched in a long time. I watched up to min 18 and I was wondering where are all the people? I counted only 5 pedestrians. That's like a robot city you experience the world in an aluminium box.

I love Nairobi i love the vibrant street life, people all over. See Tokyo city street full of people. That is what Nairobi should aim for.


Last edited by ngara; December 2nd, 2019 at 08:23 PM.
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Old December 3rd, 2019, 02:11 AM   #2328
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ngara View Post
That is the most disturbing video I've watched in a long time. I watched up to min 18 and I was wondering where are all the people? I counted only 5 pedestrians. That's like a robot city you experience the world in an aluminium box.

I love Nairobi i love the vibrant street life, people all over. See Tokyo city street full of people. That is what Nairobi should aim for.
Tbh trying to explain to people why elevated roads are bad for us it just too hard esp people who cant make the comparison between an area where there was an elevated road and the same area after it was demolished.

People still think this new road will solve Nairobi's traffic problems when we all also understand that the only way to guarantee people arrive somewhere on time is a subway which should be complemented with a BRT system.

The company building this road could have brought a consortium and built Nairobi's 1st metro if the govt had pushed for that instead. All I see is money being put for something that will turn into an eyesore in some years and sth that will also be filled with traffic in a few years. And it will then have to be demolished because of the stuff goin on underneath and aesthetics.

Nairobi needs wider roads but even we at some point should realise wider roads never necessarily means less traffic.
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Old December 3rd, 2019, 09:32 AM   #2329
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Quote:
Originally Posted by osaedu View Post
Of course all those factors come into play. These are just average estimates, a V8 engine would even consume 1kpl in traffic. Traffic on many sections of that road is that crawling type that is not stop and go. Engine start stop is pretty much a luxury car feature that isnt in your typical Axios, fielders, fits e.t.c

My point being, a car consumes much less if it moves at higher speeds through a specific distance.

The express way has some negatives, which some may not even be negatives, but if we dwell so much on them we will stay stuck with the mess that is mombasa road today. There are so many cheap houses in mlolongo syokimau area that people paying high rents near town will move to and have a much cheaper life overall. Tell them that they will have to wait until Kenya can afford a Ksh100b light rail , they will not be amused. Of course there will be nay sayers of that too and this road doesn't prevent KR from building one.
Even the base models Vitz and Demios from 2007 came with automatic start/stop as standard features these days.

We are not against this project..what we are against is how it is being implemented and why they are not addressing the root course of the problem which is the roundabouts and lack of synchronized trafffic lights. How sure are we that after the expressway is build KENHA will address these challenges.
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Old December 3rd, 2019, 01:56 PM   #2330
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ngara View Post
That is the most disturbing video I've watched in a long time. I watched up to min 18 and I was wondering where are all the people? I counted only 5 pedestrians. That's like a robot city you experience the world in an aluminium box.

I love Nairobi i love the vibrant street life, people all over. See Tokyo city street full of people. That is what Nairobi should aim for.

[YOUTUBE]BDW9P60NgHs/YOUTUBE]
You are choosing to see the world in 1D not even 2D, yet you can see it in 3D, i.e from all angles.

The video I shared was a guy shouting a 4K video going through Shanghai. It does not mean everywhere in Shanghai is just roads.

See this video, you see a city with many pedestrian friendly streets.



Its the same way Nairobi getting this expressway does not stop us building pedestrian walkways, streets, NMT infrastructure, Mass transit systems etc.
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Old December 4th, 2019, 05:21 AM   #2331
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ngara View Post
That is the most disturbing video I've watched in a long time. I watched up to min 18 and I was wondering where are all the people? I counted only 5 pedestrians. That's like a robot city you experience the world in an aluminium box.

I love Nairobi i love the vibrant street life, people all over. See Tokyo city street full of people. That is what Nairobi should aim for.



I have been to shanghai. The city is beautiful. Very beautiful with lots of viaducts and more under construction. Chinese cities donít have too many people on most of the streets. Because most people have electric bicycles. Millions of them. The reason why Chinese cities donít have many people is not because of viaducts. All roads have nice sidewalks. So stop blaming the viaducts. Again, Shanghai is a rich city, the MOST developed i have ever been to. China is not India, even Beijing isnít that crowded.
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Old December 5th, 2019, 02:09 PM   #2332
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More on the expressway






https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcmt9R08eDw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BB78TcY-uBk
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Old December 5th, 2019, 10:22 PM   #2333
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The cost of constructing a 27 Km four lane highway at KSH 62.2 billion to say the least is just staggering and openly exaggerated. To understand, If we were to construct 135 Km of such a road, it could have been equivalent to total cost of SGR which includes 675 Km of rail line, over 15 state of the art stations, rolling stock, workshops, furniture, marshaling yards, lifting cranes, signalling, power lines, fencing all the way, communications etc. This is extremely exaggerated project. A figure of 33.billion would make a lot of sense.
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Old December 5th, 2019, 11:09 PM   #2334
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mwendo Safi View Post
The cost of constructing a 27 Km four lane highway at KSH 62.2 billion to say the least is just staggering and openly exaggerated. To understand, If we were to construct 135 Km of such a road, it could have been equivalent to total cost of SGR which includes 675 Km of rail line, over 15 state of the art stations, rolling stock, workshops, furniture, marshaling yards, lifting cranes, signalling, power lines, fencing all the way, communications etc. This is extremely exaggerated project. A figure of 33.billion would make a lot of sense.
very well put.. even the engineers of kenya are concerned with the project's value for money argument by the govt officials... and they beleive (already there is a speculation in their circles) that there might be a loophole that the chinese have seen that our lazy officials can not see... Clip 1 from 8.20 - 9:30
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Old December 5th, 2019, 11:22 PM   #2335
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Seems like this is what will be used
Quote:
Originally Posted by Netlink View Post
In fact some toll roads like the one I use everyday are designed so you never stop. The plate is automatically read when you enter and exit and you get billed. I know we can't implement that in Kenya yet but point is expressway is just that, express....
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Old Yesterday, 02:25 AM   #2336
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Everyone who has been preaching about beauty as the reason we shouldnít have this elevated road doesnít love our country. Iíve been to many cities, most recently San Francisco and Richmond has n the US west and east coast and I cannot say how many elevated roads they have. San Francisco has elevated roads left right and center and people still live it. They couldnít so without the roads. So letís stop being in the way of necessary development. In fact they need to build that elevated road across from the railways station the other side over Moi avenue down to land in Westland. We need a connected city.
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Old Yesterday, 05:29 AM   #2337
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Not defending the cost but whatever figure they say it is, and as per Kenha, its up to CRBC to get a profit or loss. Its not a situation whereby we must pay 62b by 2050, its CRBC to give value for money to be able to get it back. They inflate the costs, they get a loss. Also 11KM 4 lane heavy and dense steel cage viaduct from foundation to side barriers stretched will be equal to how many Km of Railway? Its good we interogate the numbers but not sure how far we will get to see the Bill of quantities and compare apples to apples.
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Old Yesterday, 06:33 AM   #2338
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Everyone who has been preaching about beauty as the reason we shouldnít have this elevated road doesnít love our country. Iíve been to many cities, most recently San Francisco and Richmond has n the US west and east coast and I cannot say how many elevated roads they have. San Francisco has elevated roads left right and center and people still live it. They couldnít so without the roads. So letís stop being in the way of necessary development. In fact they need to build that elevated road across from the railways station the other side over Moi avenue down to land in Westland. We need a connected city.
The same SF that got rid of the Embarcadero Fwy.

Ur talking about cities that built elevated roads in an age where it was cool but then turned out to be a bad idea. And we in 2019 have already seen the difference but are still trying to go down the same path.

In absolutely all the projects where elevated roads have been removed the area always improved dramatically.

In the case of SF there's a better view of the waterfront In Nairobi's case its the view from Uhuru park that will be ruined.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SE9 View Post
San Francisco
United States



Project: The Embarcadero


Before










After









Im pretty sure if SF or the government of California had money we'd see all elevated roads removed.

And this project costs some Kes. 62 BN (US$ 620 million) that money could have been put to a metro line which is what we need. If it wasnt sufficient a Kenyan company like Centum could have formed a consortium with CRBC and Kenya Railways could also have been involved. There are lots of financing options for long term solutions like metro lines that the government couldnt be bothered to explore.

Check out this thread to see how all areas with elevated roads improved after removal | Removing/limiting highways in urban areas - projects around the world reclaiming cities for pedestrians
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Old Yesterday, 08:19 AM   #2339
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Kenyan’s are funny people. Why can’t then a Kenyan company do a counter proposal that is more affordable?
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Old Yesterday, 09:21 AM   #2340
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Originally Posted by DissidentX View Post
More on the expressway



I find the tone of PS Maringa very condenscending...."for those who can afford Ehhh" 12,000 Ksh added on a family man's budget is a tall order.


And ohhh Government vehicles will be exempted from paying toll charges
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