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Old January 10th, 2020, 08:32 AM   #10741
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MELBOURNE: General public transport thread

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I wasn't laughing at an exchange student, I was laughing at Melbourne, its public transport and (thinking into the future here) people on internet boards who whould defend Melbourne and its public transport.

The 'very specific timetable gripe' was in fact a reflection on the WHOLE ATTITUDE to public transport in Melbourne, then and now. That it is only a welfare case, provided for people with no other options. The poor and destitute. Everyone else would drive.

Which is NOT how Germans (like this exchange student) would feel about it, whether their nearest beach is only a patch of Lake Constance or the chilly Baltic.

They might drive, after all, they make Mercs, Beemers, Audis, Volks and so on (unlike us) so they clearly aren't anti-motor vehicle. But they also have trains - in fact they make these too, and they make the equipment that makes railways - the signalling, the track, the electrification, all of it.

These Germans aren't stupid people, but I know which nationality IS, and they are the ones who think you wouldn't run public transport to the beach on a Sunday morning, because, you know, people like us drive.

Yeah but we won the war...
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Old January 10th, 2020, 09:30 AM   #10742
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We but we won the war...
Russia and US factories (after 1941) won the war
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Old January 19th, 2020, 04:24 AM   #10743
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Trams are going on strike twice later this month, on January 28th and 30th from 10am to 2pm.

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/vi...d09f03b3d2b0a7

To cut down to the jist of why the RTBU is so angry (as usual? ), it's because at the moment tram drivers are all employed on a full time basis, and they work regular overtime shifts (known internally as a "Day Off Cancelled") at a lucrative pay rate to keep the service going, which apparently contributes quite a bit to what drivers earn.

RTBU is mad because the company wants to start employing part time drivers, and presumably it wouldn't be as expensive to use part timers to cover extra hours as it is to get full timers to pull 50 hour weeks.

And presumably the company might choose to allocate extra work to the part timers (which is you know, completely logical for fatigue management reasons? ) rather than to full timers who are already doing a base 40 hour week. So basically it would cut off the overtime tap that their members have been milking.



So basically, they want the operation to be run for the benefit of their existing members who like pulling in cash working tonnes of overtime, rather than letting the company spread the work around more by creating extra jobs and not relying on people to work a ridiculous number of hours.

Reminds me a little bit of some of the details that came out in the report into QR's well publicised staffing problems, one being that they were intentionally always around 10% understaffed just so they would have overtime shifts continually available for their staff which was how the union and the existing drivers liked it
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Old January 19th, 2020, 09:24 AM   #10744
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The RBTU have scored a couple of own goals of late. The Metro operations EBA case in point.
Funny enough the infrastructure and rolling stock ones were done without fuss. Normally rolling stock gets done last.

Quote:
And presumably the company might choose to allocate extra work to the part timers (which is you know, completely logical for fatigue management reasons? ) rather than to full timers who are already doing a base 40 hour week. So basically it would cut off the overtime tap that their members have been milking.
I would have thought with fatigue management being the new "thing" around public transport the union would be on board.
They might win the battle but they will lose the war in the end.

I just don't get thier strategy.
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Old January 24th, 2020, 12:44 PM   #10745
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https://www.theage.com.au/national/v...24-p53ud0.html

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Train drivers are threatening to boycott Frankston, Dandenong and Pakenham services next week, saying they will not drive on newly laid South Yarra tracks as they have not had proper training.

It means rail commuters from the city's south-east who have been forced onto buses for most of January could face further disruptions on the week their trains are supposed to finally resume.
On that premise, can all interstate coach drivers and truckies boycott the Pacific Highway every time a new stretch of dual carriageway opens, since they “haven’t been properly trained” on how to drive on it????
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Old January 24th, 2020, 07:00 PM   #10746
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Grampians

It's true that without help Britain could not stand and my mom said she would gas the whole family rather than live under Hitler if he ever got to England
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Old January 25th, 2020, 12:33 AM   #10747
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAJAN View Post
https://www.theage.com.au/national/v...24-p53ud0.html


On that premise, can all interstate coach drivers and truckies boycott the Pacific Highway every time a new stretch of dual carriageway opens, since they “haven’t been properly trained” on how to drive on it????
Generally at the back end of a rail occupation where the track alignment has changed there is a 'driver training' event for drivers to learn the new route. It costs a lot of money to keep the rail line closed, so contractors like to argue that it is not necessary. I suspect that this is what the debate is over. Train drivers can't just slow down in these scenarios as they have a strict timetable performance to meet. In that sense it's not really comparable to coach and truck drivers
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Old January 25th, 2020, 02:37 AM   #10748
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But how much has the track really changed? There's no new station, the track is still st the same level, and there's still a big curve.



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Old January 25th, 2020, 03:54 AM   #10749
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Quote:
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But how much has the track really changed? There's no new station, the track is still st the same level, and there's still a big curve.
Apparently the issues are that signal locations have changed and the drivers need to learn the new locations along with the new restrictions. Makes me wonder whether these drivers have memorised entire lines.

I don't get why they can't just run at reduced speed for a week or two though. Slow trains is better than no trains
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Old January 25th, 2020, 04:43 AM   #10750
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Yeah signals have moved and given train drivers can get demoted over 3 missed signals, of course they are concerned about the new section.
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Old January 25th, 2020, 07:38 AM   #10751
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eco-rat View Post
The 'very specific timetable gripe' was in fact a reflection on the WHOLE ATTITUDE to public transport in Melbourne, then and now. That it is only a welfare case, provided for people with no other options. The poor and destitute. Everyone else would drive.
This is not just Melbourne. It is the entire country. The attitude that public transport is a "last resort" option. A second class alternative for those who don't/can't drive.

The reason it shits me is because I didn't get to experience the "birthright" of having a car and having the mobility afforded by a car. I've lived with shitty public transport all my life and I've seen how much better things are in countries where public transport is far more culturally accepted.

It also comes with this "second class service for second class people" attitude that public transport must be slow. Its simply there to fill in the gaps. To join the dots. Its not really meant to replace cars. And if you can't drive, then, well you deserve to eat shit. Worst part is that the attitude infects public transport planners. Its all about "reach" and "connectivity". Its never about actual speed. Its never about giving people a public transport network that will do (in most cases) exactly what a car will do, or better.
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Old January 25th, 2020, 03:54 PM   #10752
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lets not lie here posters on this site do it all the time too.
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Old January 25th, 2020, 06:26 PM   #10753
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BAusTha View Post
Apparently the issues are that signal locations have changed and the drivers need to learn the new locations along with the new restrictions. Makes me wonder whether these drivers have memorised entire lines.

I don't get why they can't just run at reduced speed for a week or two though. Slow trains is better than no trains
geez this all seems pretty pathetic...we rely on them "memorising"?!? Are there not maps and/or even in cab signalling? I bet some undergrad progammers could knock out a quick and accurate maps app to fix this...bunch of whining sooks
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Old January 26th, 2020, 12:54 AM   #10754
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Just imagine you demanded the same lax standards for an airline pilot.

A train driver is in control of nearly 500 tonnes of machinery carrying over 1000 passengers at 100km/h. I am happy that they are well trained
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Old January 26th, 2020, 02:08 AM   #10755
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Surely Metro or PTV could have a simulator for this sort of stuff
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Old January 26th, 2020, 08:17 AM   #10756
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Quote:
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Just imagine you demanded the same lax standards for an airline pilot.
There's no corresponding requirement for airline pilots that they must complete special training for every airport they land into!

If you're on a flight to a new destination for that airline in it's first days/weeks, the chances are very high that it's the first time the pilot had ever landed a plane there.
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Old January 26th, 2020, 08:52 AM   #10757
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When it comes to aircraft Boeing have software solutions so that new aircraft models fly just like older models. That way pilots don’t need training on the new model.
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Old January 26th, 2020, 09:55 AM   #10758
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It's all moot point anyway. Fair work ruled that metro's training was adequate.
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Old January 26th, 2020, 10:36 AM   #10759
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Quote:
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When it comes to aircraft Boeing have software solutions so that new aircraft models fly just like older models.
And that always works out really well....
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Old January 28th, 2020, 07:05 AM   #10760
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Daniel Bowen points out that the "Victoria's Big Build" disruption calendar is pretty hopeless from the point of view of someone actually trying to work out if their train service will be disrupted, because it only includes service disruptions due to "major projects".

https://bigbuild.vic.gov.au/disrupti...ig-this-summer

Other lines have closures with trains suspended during that period as well, but they're not listed cos it doesn't include closures for routine maintenance

Not that I would expect much more from the bureaucrats at the Victorian Government.

In other news, former Transport Minister Terry Mulder's horse won a race at Hanging Rock last week. He's the man you can thank for good stuff like the 10 minute frequency on the Dandenong line - sad to no longer have him as minister, but good to see him pursuing his passions.
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