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Old September 9th, 2019, 10:33 PM   #13021
Motortownman
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Noticed today a Stagecoach MMC (10630) on the 23 had the internal screen switched on showing the name of the next stop along with the service and destination, date and time on a scrolling screen. Not sure whether there are audible announcements as was outside walking past.
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Old September 10th, 2019, 08:03 AM   #13022
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Originally Posted by Motortownman View Post
Noticed today a Stagecoach MMC (10630) on the 23 had the internal screen switched on showing the name of the next stop along with the service and destination, date and time on a scrolling screen. Not sure whether there are audible announcements as was outside walking past.
That but is trialling the system for Stagecoach, I do believe it should have audio announcements as well along with one of the Enviro 200 MMC's on the 325.
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Old September 12th, 2019, 02:40 PM   #13023
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Franchised buses will cost every household an extra £68 a year, says report commissioned by OneBus
Mayor Andy Burnhamís plans to franchise buses in Manchester could cost the public an extra £81m, says a report by the TAS Partnership.
It says the costs of operating bus services will increase dramatically in the first year of franchising and by up to 73% over the first seven years.
The reportís cost estimates, which include £1.1m on new staff at TfGM, are based on replicating the existing network. Adding more routes and lower fares will increase the public cost further.
http://www.route-one.net/news/manche...-public-purse/
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Old September 12th, 2019, 02:55 PM   #13024
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And what is the benefit of taking cars off the road, reducing pollution in the air, and giving people extra travel options?

My guess is that £68 a year is a bargain. How much does it cost to a run a car for the year?
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Old September 12th, 2019, 03:24 PM   #13025
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paulw3726 View Post
Franchised buses will cost every household an extra £68 a year, says report commissioned by OneBus
Mayor Andy Burnhamís plans to franchise buses in Manchester could cost the public an extra £81m, says a report by the TAS Partnership.
It says the costs of operating bus services will increase dramatically in the first year of franchising and by up to 73% over the first seven years.
The reportís cost estimates, which include £1.1m on new staff at TfGM, are based on replicating the existing network. Adding more routes and lower fares will increase the public cost further.
www.route-one.net/news/manchester-franchising-would-add-81m-to-public-purse/
Be good to see a report commissioned by someone other than OneBus and see how they compare.
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Old September 12th, 2019, 03:32 PM   #13026
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Yes dggar, that report is nothing but a political diatribe from a vested interest. It makes no mention of the current profit element which could be used for cross-subsidisation. And if public ownership would create more jobs for bus drivers, as it alleges, that's a good thing, not a burden to anyone except the current profiteers. But another good thing will be the reduction in the bureaucracy of to-day's horrendously complicated system, allowing for the redeployment of superfluous managerial staff who will probably end up somewhere on a good screw anyway!

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Old September 12th, 2019, 07:37 PM   #13027
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomsskyscrapercity View Post
I hope the planned Metrolink extension form Rochdale to Bury via Heywood is then continued to Bolton on the old route, only small bits built over that Iím sure could be avoided. Should never have been built on really
Fully agree Tom. There has been a fair bit of encroachment, but possibly not insurmountable. . . A hell of a lot more obstacles were overcome on the East Manchester line.

I've been having a look at that old line recently, and putting some pics on the 'Old Mcr Transport Pictures' thread :-

https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showt...t162250590#369

However, conversion to Metrolink seems to have been ruled out for the time being by Andy Burnham's 'Our Network' announcement in June

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Old September 12th, 2019, 09:00 PM   #13028
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paulw3726 View Post
Franchised buses will cost every household an extra £68 a year, says report commissioned by OneBus
Mayor Andy Burnham’s plans to franchise buses in Manchester could cost the public an extra £81m, says a report by the TAS Partnership.
It says the costs of operating bus services will increase dramatically in the first year of franchising and by up to 73% over the first seven years.
The report’s cost estimates, which include £1.1m on new staff at TfGM, are based on replicating the existing network. Adding more routes and lower fares will increase the public cost further.
http://www.route-one.net/news/manche...-public-purse/
Is the report available anywhere?
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Old September 13th, 2019, 10:18 AM   #13029
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Only morons want a franchised bus network. How have people forgotten about TFGM's ludicrous hash of one of their services which combined 4 routes that weren't profitable by taking "popular" sections of each route and ended having fewer passengers than the original 4 routes? I lost count the number of times a TFGM funded service near me went off route and every time I advised TFGM, they told me to refer to the bus company. Sorry, you are paying them money to mitigate losses and they take advantage by having 5 to 10 minutes less fuel consumption on that trip. Surely TFGM are the ones that need to make enquiries. If TFGM is unwilling to manage a few bus routes competently then I can't see how they are going to manage the whole network?



If you are in possession of a brain, then there is NOTHING complicated about the bus network. We have got the network we the people deserve. If people are NOT getting on or off in a particular estate that is slightly out of the way on a route then it REALLY does make sense to cut that estate out instead of forking out a fortune to keep a bus going on the off chance that once a week 1 passenger gets on or off there.

Look at the hideous attempts of getting MORE cyclists on the road to fail to observe basic things like traffic signs and signals by creating cycles lanes, which was have been told don't need to observed, which goes after the car user by reducing available space for them. Not one of those idiots putting forward these plans seem to have realised that by reducing space for cars means reducing space for buses. What is one of our commonest complaints? Buses running late. So by doing the "green" thing that in all likelihood will not be observed by the lycra louts, we will just get more traffic congestion which leads to more buses running late. Is this how the demented franchise bus service/get more cyclist lovers think?

Even now, TFGM is going out of it's way to apportion blame on bus companies for policies not of the bus companies making. One example is where a man claimed that his 11 year old was waiting for their IGO pass but the bus driver "failed common sense" and told that child to pay adult fare. Did TFGM say, it's in our Ts and Cs: "The igo card proves that the holder is entitled to travel at the current concessionary fare within the area of Greater Manchester." No, they just referred it to the bus company. Or the instance when an elderly person who didn't have their free pass and got charged. So many people said "they look old, the driver should have let him on for free". Again, TFGM lacked backbone by not advising the bus company was correct but sent it back to the bus company "for their comments". Maybe we should all apply theatrical make-up so that we all look old so we all travel for free and to hell with actually proving our age?!

As for report commissioning.... so if Andy Burnham or TFGM commission a report and it states the benefits of going down the moronic way of franchising, we are okay with that as it's bound to be "impartial" but the moment the bus companies commission a report then we have to automatically dismiss this as being biased UNLESS if goes in favour of what the authorities want.
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Old September 13th, 2019, 04:22 PM   #13030
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I'm getting confused now. When Diamond took over first Bolton did they not say they would be leasing buses from first for a few years till they got some replacements?

Have to admit I was apprehensive about them as I thought they were no better than a tatty outfit, but now have to admit to being wrong. Their image is nice and bright and those colours look fabulous especially when the light hits them at certain angles. I wonder how it will age though? But in the month they have been here, they seem to have made big inroads into getting some new vehicles in so quickly and some 19 reg plates too. So where have these come from as normally you don't just go out and buy buses and they turn up within weeks and go into service?

Then we get to Go Ahead who have done a great job of cleaning up the insides of the garden sheds they inherited from first showing them not be be in quite as bad state as I thought. As for reliability, I can't comment as my 33 was usually pretty reliable anyway. As good as they could be with the Regent Road never ending works. But they don't seem to have got much further. There don't seem to be many replacements and seemingly not many reliveried after three months. Maybe there are more than I think due to the fronts being more or less the same as I'm used to apart from a sliver of blue. The verdict is now in and the colours get a massive thumbs down am afraid. I think it's way too dark and shows up every scrap of dust along with soon to be grubby fronts. And I nearly imagine why how that livery will age going dull. Hmmmm.

Last edited by Motortownman; September 13th, 2019 at 04:33 PM.
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Old September 13th, 2019, 05:37 PM   #13031
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Go-Ahead's livery won't get nearly as dirty as as that lilac rubbish.
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Old September 13th, 2019, 08:21 PM   #13032
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Could get confusing for some people in Rochdale with the liveries. Go North West's corporate livery and Transdev's Go app livery can look similar at a glance, particularly when applied to the same kind of vehicle (Enivro 400). Doesn't help both having Go on the front.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/tcd481j/48720789936/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/favers...ry/48723556093
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Old September 13th, 2019, 09:09 PM   #13033
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Quote:
Originally Posted by david_itl View Post
Only morons want a franchised bus network. How have people forgotten about TFGM's ludicrous hash of one of their services which combined 4 routes that weren't profitable by taking "popular" sections of each route and ended having fewer passengers than the original 4 routes? I lost count the number of times a TFGM funded service near me went off route and every time I advised TFGM, they told me to refer to the bus company. Sorry, you are paying them money to mitigate losses and they take advantage by having 5 to 10 minutes less fuel consumption on that trip. Surely TFGM are the ones that need to make enquiries. If TFGM is unwilling to manage a few bus routes competently then I can't see how they are going to manage the whole network?



If you are in possession of a brain, then there is NOTHING complicated about the bus network. We have got the network we the people deserve. If people are NOT getting on or off in a particular estate that is slightly out of the way on a route then it REALLY does make sense to cut that estate out instead of forking out a fortune to keep a bus going on the off chance that once a week 1 passenger gets on or off there.

Look at the hideous attempts of getting MORE cyclists on the road to fail to observe basic things like traffic signs and signals by creating cycles lanes, which was have been told don't need to observed, which goes after the car user by reducing available space for them. Not one of those idiots putting forward these plans seem to have realised that by reducing space for cars means reducing space for buses. What is one of our commonest complaints? Buses running late. So by doing the "green" thing that in all likelihood will not be observed by the lycra louts, we will just get more traffic congestion which leads to more buses running late. Is this how the demented franchise bus service/get more cyclist lovers think?

Even now, TFGM is going out of it's way to apportion blame on bus companies for policies not of the bus companies making. One example is where a man claimed that his 11 year old was waiting for their IGO pass but the bus driver "failed common sense" and told that child to pay adult fare. Did TFGM say, it's in our Ts and Cs: "The igo card proves that the holder is entitled to travel at the current concessionary fare within the area of Greater Manchester." No, they just referred it to the bus company. Or the instance when an elderly person who didn't have their free pass and got charged. So many people said "they look old, the driver should have let him on for free". Again, TFGM lacked backbone by not advising the bus company was correct but sent it back to the bus company "for their comments". Maybe we should all apply theatrical make-up so that we all look old so we all travel for free and to hell with actually proving our age?!

As for report commissioning.... so if Andy Burnham or TFGM commission a report and it states the benefits of going down the moronic way of franchising, we are okay with that as it's bound to be "impartial" but the moment the bus companies commission a report then we have to automatically dismiss this as being biased UNLESS if goes in favour of what the authorities want.
Do me a favour

Go to London, use their buses, then come back here and tell me what you think of our network in comparison
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Old September 13th, 2019, 09:13 PM   #13034
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Quote:
Originally Posted by david_itl View Post

As for report commissioning.... so if Andy Burnham or TFGM commission a report and it states the benefits of going down the moronic way of franchising, we are okay with that as it's bound to be "impartial" but the moment the bus companies commission a report then we have to automatically dismiss this as being biased UNLESS if goes in favour of what the authorities want.
Andy Burnham's job is to represent the residents of Greater Manchester. OneBus exists to represent the shareholders of bus companies operating in Greater Manchester. They will obviously both produce biased reports, but I would favour a report that is biased towards the residents rather than the bus companies.
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Old September 14th, 2019, 01:42 AM   #13035
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David_iti normally read and agree with your posted views here and in other places , however not on franchising today.

Remember the primary concept is about returning to a Co-Ordinated easy to use NETWORK of services and cross use fares within the city region whilst retaining commercial entities and fair profit margins to ALL stakeholders .

Itís NOT nationalisation by any measure. Bidding franchises are not likely to go so low as to seriously hit profitability , however if TFGM have any understanding of whatís needed they will release packages with minimum standards of service including evening, early morning and weekend journeys included . Might actually reduce the direct payments made under the current system if done correctly !

Negativity will be we (the tax payers) wont be providing onboard wi-fi (Itís generally crap anyway) or mock leather seats .

Fact is in a city region people move around all the time and that should/must be seemless period stop.

Here in London true the levels of subsidies are substantial i can walk out of my house turn left board a Metropolitan tube, get off ANYWHERE on the LUL, walk a few yards get on a bus , get on second bus within the hour (for £1.50) board a London Overground train , get off that and get on a heavy rail service (Heathrow excluded) get on a Croydon tram ,even get a river boat .ALL on a single payment card or using my debit card (With daily capping) without thought or worry that my return journey might be on a differing carrier - and my ticket not be honoured !

IMHO thats exactly how public transport in ALL cities should work- no ifs no butts.

Todayís shambles of operators ticketing systems, and yes primarily profit driven bus services do not provide that in anyway today.

As for that £68 figure per year per household its probably on the low side however imho damn good value to be honest.

Buses in an urban environment are essential infrastructure and as I have said before franchises might actually lead to REDUCED longer distance and over supply of competing services on a few corridors however benefiting and encouraging effective intermodal travel on a single ticketing payment system.

However rather more regular services right across the city region imho.
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Old September 14th, 2019, 09:14 PM   #13036
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2019-09-14 009 by John McCarthy, on Flickr

2019-09-14 010 by John McCarthy, on Flickr

Darcy Lever has only two services into Bolton, 511 (Diamond) and 544 (Vision), with liveries that are not only identical, but similar! :-

2019-09-14 063 by John McCarthy, on Flickr

In front of me this morning, a middle-aged lady tried to get on this bus, and was very embarrassed to be told, "Sorry, your ticket's a Diamond one" - so she had to get off again. Both services are hourly. It didn't affect me as an OAP with a universal pass, but what a damnably uncivilised system we really have outside of London.

Awful.
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Old September 15th, 2019, 12:36 PM   #13037
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My clearout of transport books continues, so if anybody would like any or all of these, please let me know as they'll be off to the charity shop soon !

Hardbacks. London's Underground H F Howson. Pleasure Trips by Underground. London's Underground 10th edition.

Softbacks Underground Liverpool. Do Not Alight Here. World Metro Systems. Underground Official Handbook (2000) same as but (1994). Going Underground:newperspectives.
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Old September 15th, 2019, 01:16 PM   #13038
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Tameside Reporter this week :-

389bus by John McCarthy, on Flickr

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Old September 15th, 2019, 09:07 PM   #13039
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rutankrd View Post
David_iti normally read and agree with your posted views here and in other places , however not on franchising today.

Remember the primary concept is about returning to a Co-Ordinated easy to use NETWORK of services and cross use fares within the city region whilst retaining commercial entities and fair profit margins to ALL stakeholders .

Itís NOT nationalisation by any measure. Bidding franchises are not likely to go so low as to seriously hit profitability , however if TFGM have any understanding of whatís needed they will release packages with minimum standards of service including evening, early morning and weekend journeys included . Might actually reduce the direct payments made under the current system if done correctly !

Negativity will be we (the tax payers) wont be providing onboard wi-fi (Itís generally crap anyway) or mock leather seats .

Fact is in a city region people move around all the time and that should/must be seemless period stop.

Here in London true the levels of subsidies are substantial i can walk out of my house turn left board a Metropolitan tube, get off ANYWHERE on the LUL, walk a few yards get on a bus , get on second bus within the hour (for £1.50) board a London Overground train , get off that and get on a heavy rail service (Heathrow excluded) get on a Croydon tram ,even get a river boat .ALL on a single payment card or using my debit card (With daily capping) without thought or worry that my return journey might be on a differing carrier - and my ticket not be honoured !

IMHO thats exactly how public transport in ALL cities should work- no ifs no butts.

Todayís shambles of operators ticketing systems, and yes primarily profit driven bus services do not provide that in anyway today.

As for that £68 figure per year per household its probably on the low side however imho damn good value to be honest.

Buses in an urban environment are essential infrastructure and as I have said before franchises might actually lead to REDUCED longer distance and over supply of competing services on a few corridors however benefiting and encouraging effective intermodal travel on a single ticketing payment system.

However rather more regular services right across the city region imho.
The other amazing thing in London is that all areas, to the very edges of Greater London and sometimes slightly beyond , have 24/7 public transport. Most often thus is buses, the amazing thing being the fare is STILL £1.50 and you can still board unlimited buses in an hour (actually, itís 70mins) for that £1.50. Also the ďdayĒ runs until 0429 so if youíve reached cap earlier in day it doesnít cost any more to travel until 0429!

Thameslink trains run 24/7 to most areas, examples being Bedford, Brighton , East Croydon . Areas not on Thameslink often have trains until about 1am or so especially at weekends.

Of course, 6 lines of the tube and most of the overground is 24 hours at weekend and costs the same price as off peak.
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Old September 16th, 2019, 08:36 AM   #13040
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The problem with these petitions for bus services that I find is that the people seem to think that by petioning a bus service will be quickly restored but realisticly this isn't the case as an operator as to see whether the service would be viable to run and there is the registration process with VSA as timetables can only be changed at certain times of the year.

So even if Stagecoach were to review and decide to run 389 back to Hyde (Gee Cross only ran in the evenings on tender) this now won't happen probably until next year at the earliest.
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