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Old March 9th, 2018, 08:44 PM   #241
David-80
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Would it be wise for the PH gov to invest in mindanao railway right now? I mean my country indonesia started to invest in kalimantan and sulawesi trans railway two years ago after we actually finished double track railway in our north and south railway java line and constructing double track sumatera line. And we already have railway system running for more than 30 years before we decide to construct trans sulawesi and kalimantan railway.

I think its better for PH gov to just build more railway line in luzon island first. It will guarantee the roi for the project then maybe 5-10 years later start building visaya railway.

But again its just my opinion
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Old March 9th, 2018, 09:37 PM   #242
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David-80 View Post
Would it be wise for the PH gov to invest in mindanao railway right now? I mean my country indonesia started to invest in kalimantan and sulawesi trans railway two years ago after we actually finished double track railway in our north and south railway java line and constructing double track sumatera line. And we already have railway system running for more than 30 years before we decide to construct trans sulawesi and kalimantan railway.

I think its better for PH gov to just build more railway line in luzon island first. It will guarantee the roi for the project then maybe 5-10 years later start building visaya railway.

But again its just my opinion
Imo, rail spurs development not the other way around
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Old March 9th, 2018, 09:49 PM   #243
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I think this railway would just be single track. In that case, it would not bleed the government that much. And it will serve around 3 million people by the time it will be completed. The Americans have built thousand kms of railways before even when Luzon was just sparsely populated.

I also think that the government should start establishing the Metro Davao government/development agency just like in MM or better. If that happens, then I expect rapid growth would follow.
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Old March 10th, 2018, 07:38 AM   #244
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I think this railway would just be single track. In that case, it would not bleed the government that much. And it will serve around 3 million people by the time it will be completed.
I certainly hope not. A single-track railway wouldn't have any room for more growth in the future. I would prefer it if the government actually planned for the future, instead of for the short-term.

From Wikipedia:
'Single track is significantly cheaper to build, but has operational and safety disadvantages. For example, a single-track line that takes 15 minutes to travel through would have capacity for only two trains per hour in each direction. By contrast, a double track with signal boxes four minutes apart can allow up to 15 trains per hour in each direction, provided all the trains travel at the same speed.

Long freight trains are a problem if the passing stretches are not long enough. Other disadvantages include the propagation of delays, since one delayed train on a single track will also delay any train waiting for it to pass. Also, a single track does not have a "reserve" track that can allow a reduced capacity service to continue if one track is closed.


So as you can see there are significantly more disadvantages with using a single track railway.
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Old March 10th, 2018, 07:50 AM   #245
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Of course we all want to have dual track system, but the primary hindrance is the co$$$t, of which we will have to borrow.

Even the revived PNR MLS from Elbi to Legazpi [and the long-dreamed Matnog extension] will be of single track.
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Old March 10th, 2018, 03:43 PM   #246
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My opinion is the same as before: Everyone will be benefited if ever a railway system is constructed in Mindanao! Be it the common people, the government or the rebels in the area. In fact, things could be made very mobile, no exceptions. Why would someone destroy something that could be of help to them?

The backward state of the island is one of the reasons why some groups are decided to secede in the first place--> they think the central government only wants their taxes and leave the island to rot!
Davao/Gensan to Pagadian/Iligan I think di pa feasible dahil sa rebelde sa areas ng Maguindanao. Bus nga walang direct route hanggang Cotabato City lang pag galing ka ng Davao. Puro Van pag galing ka ng Cotabato City to Iligan or Pagadian. Langhiya kasi daming nagchecheckpoint dyan na MILF/MNLF/NPA bukod pa yung militar lalo na pag gabi.
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Old March 10th, 2018, 09:34 PM   #247
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Imo, rail spurs development not the other way around
Actually, he has a point. Not that I know what the railways he mentioned, but it's more of the rail lines should connect to somewhere developed. The minanado rail is connecting to nowhere that developed. Luzon is very ripe for a proper rail network because nothing to that level is connecting the main metro to the other parts of Luzon.
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Old March 10th, 2018, 10:19 PM   #248
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Originally Posted by thepromulgator View Post

I certainly hope not. A single-track railway wouldn't have any room for more growth in the future. I would prefer it if the government actually planned for the future, instead of for the short-term.

From Wikipedia:
'Single track is significantly cheaper to build, but has operational and safety disadvantages. For example, a single-track line that takes 15 minutes to travel through would have capacity for only two trains per hour in each direction. By contrast, a double track with signal boxes four minutes apart can allow up to 15 trains per hour in each direction, provided all the trains travel at the same speed.

Long freight trains are a problem if the passing stretches are not long enough. Other disadvantages include the propagation of delays, since one delayed train on a single track will also delay any train waiting for it to pass. Also, a single track does not have a "reserve" track that can allow a reduced capacity service to continue if one track is closed.


So as you can see there are significantly more disadvantages with using a single track railway.
I am familiar with the pros and cons of using a single track. But as of the moment, there is no need for a dual track because of the high cost. I've read in the news that NEDA and DOTr will also allot some space for future expansion. Although, personally, I have high doubts about that.

AS for the view that this railway would not be feasible. We have to remember that trains and other mass transportation, by their nature, are not made for profit. They are there because of their socio-economic benefit. And there's a feasibility study that will be made by NEDA for sure, so I am assured that this will not end up as a white elephant.

This all boils down to how the national government and the LGUs are envisioning their growth. Because right now, Davao Region and Northern Mindanao are growing fast economically without much intervention from the government. What more if we started planning and preparing for future seriously, diba? And we don't want to wait to have a high demand in this area (which could also mean congestion) before we start building a mass transportation just so we could be assured that this project would be financially feasible (vs being economically feasible)... just look how bad it became for Metro Manila.
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Old March 11th, 2018, 12:54 PM   #249
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The current infrastructure projects for Luzon are concentrated between Manila and Clark due to presence of NAIA and Clark International Airport with the Clark Green City and transfer of Executive Departments to Central Luzon (government target 2020s)... The Luzon Railways with possibility of extension to Ilocos Region (North) and Bicol Region (South) will all possibly come to fruition in the next 20 years... while Visayan Islands are setting their sight on long span bridges that will link Iloilo - Guimaras - Negros - Cebu likely in the next 20 - 30 years (government target is 2020s)... So that only leave Mindanao - circumferential railway - in my dream - dual rail and high way side by side and military camps with heavy fortifications + CCTVs + drones stretching the expanse of the whole railway line and implementation of no valid IDs no boarding and strict airport style security check with limitations on luggages and liquids (over reaction?)... it will limit sabotage and extremist terrorist threats... The gains in economic progress and benefits to people will outweigh the negative...

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Old March 11th, 2018, 06:20 PM   #250
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....


So as you can see there are significantly more disadvantages with using a single track railway.
Yes, it is true. The issue here is immediate cost. The government can start first with a single track. With appropriately spaced sidings, the route can be maximized. As traffic increases, then the route can be converted to double track. The railway authority should just make sure it has the appropriate ROW right from the start....
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Old March 11th, 2018, 07:18 PM   #251
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Yes, it is true. The issue here is immediate cost. The government can start first with a single track. With appropriately spaced sidings, the route can be maximized. As traffic increases, then the route can be converted to double track. The railway authority should just make sure it has the appropriate ROW right from the start....

ROW is what I am most worried about when it comes to potential expansionof a single-track railway to double-track, to be honest. There is a real possibility that, in true Filipino fashion, it could be ignored, and various buildings could be built around the area.

Although the risk could be mitigated by fencing the track area and having proper security (which would be a necessity anyway given the perilous nature of some parts of Mindanao).
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Old March 12th, 2018, 10:14 AM   #252
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Originally Posted by thepromulgator View Post
ROW is what I am most worried about when it comes to potential expansionof a single-track railway to double-track, to be honest. There is a real possibility that, in true Filipino fashion, it could be ignored, and various buildings could be built around the area.

Although the risk could be mitigated by fencing the track area and having proper security (which would be a necessity anyway given the perilous nature of some parts of Mindanao).
I agree. I could only hope that Mindanao Railways will follow what PNR did - acquire ROW which can accommodate 2 or more parallel lines, despite the fact that it is mostly single track....
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Old March 12th, 2018, 10:20 AM   #253
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Thus is going to be a prime and juicy static target for enemies of the State. How we shall secure this will be a monstrous challenge.

The economic [freight /cargo] and military [mobilization] benefits the riles will bring to Mindanao will definitely destabilize the status quo there.
Kaya maigi siguro if i-test muna nila sa Digos-Davao-Tagum route. Pag-okay, saka na lang mag expand.
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Old March 12th, 2018, 03:16 PM   #254
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Kaya maigi siguro if i-test muna nila sa Digos-Davao-Tagum route. Pag-okay, saka na lang mag expand.
cgurado na yung davao region okay na okay yan sa railway kasi more safer kumpara sa other parts ng mindanao,cguro lagyan cguro ng cctv every 500 meters lalo ng yung part na liblib na masyado...
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Old March 12th, 2018, 08:02 PM   #255
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Originally Posted by David-80 View Post
Would it be wise for the PH gov to invest in mindanao railway right now? I mean my country indonesia started to invest in kalimantan and sulawesi trans railway two years ago after we actually finished double track railway in our north and south railway java line and constructing double track sumatera line. And we already have railway system running for more than 30 years before we decide to construct trans sulawesi and kalimantan railway.

I think its better for PH gov to just build more railway line in luzon island first. It will guarantee the roi for the project then maybe 5-10 years later start building visaya railway.

But again its just my opinion
Mindanao is smaller than Kalamantan and Sulawesi, with more population. It is also a growth area (7-9% gdp growth), with rich agricultural output with Davao and CDO as powerhouse cities. Visayas is all islands.

ROI is only for private sector measurement. The return for gov't comes in the multiplier effect (normal benchmark is 3x economic activity) of gov't infra spending which means more taxes in the future.
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Old March 13th, 2018, 02:10 PM   #256
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The right kind of implementation for railway on this island is....

The right-of-way should be enough for double track. In other words, land must be reserved for what would be double track in future as land is always the major part of cost in any infrastructure development.

However, initial construction should be single track due to cost with a few, appropriately located passing loops so that trains may overtake at certain sections of the line.

Urban sections should be built as double track from day 1 as the risk of encroachment is higher in urban areas and there may be a need to provide suburban train system in major cities of the island.
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Old April 11th, 2018, 01:00 PM   #257
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Tagum to Digos Railways

Construction of Mindanao Railways Phase 1 is expected to start this July to August 2018.
As expected, the project will traverse agricultural lands not the coastal areas.
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Old April 25th, 2018, 12:44 PM   #258
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DOTr to bid out Mindanao Railway project in June
Published April 25, 2018 5:30pm
By TED CORDERO, GMA News

Quote:
The bidding for phase one of the Mindanao Railway project is slated to begin in June, the Department of Transportation (DOTr) said Wednesday.

“For the Mindanao Railway, we are going to start the bidding by June this year," Transportation Undersecretary for Rails Timothy John Batan said.

“We are going to have our contractor and start works by this year for the phase one, which is the 103-kilometer Tagum-Davao-Digos segment,” he said.

xxx

The first phase will cover eight stations: Tagum, Carmen, Panabo, Mudiang, Davao Terminal, Toril, Sta. Cruz, and Digos, with a 10-hectare depot to be constructed in Tagum.

The commissioning of detailed engineering designs is still ongoing for the other segments of the 2,000-km Mindanao Railway project, Batan said. —VDS, GMA News

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Old April 25th, 2018, 02:00 PM   #259
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TWK90 View Post
The right kind of implementation for railway on this island is....

The right-of-way should be enough for double track. In other words, land must be reserved for what would be double track in future as land is always the major part of cost in any infrastructure development.

However, initial construction should be single track due to cost with a few, appropriately located passing loops so that trains may overtake at certain sections of the line.

Urban sections should be built as double track from day 1 as the risk of encroachment is higher in urban areas and there may be a need to provide suburban train system in major cities of the island.
According to the SC in G.R. No. L-27670. December 27, 1969, MRR VS Court of Appeals the MRR (PNR) ROW extend beyond the track bed but includes the portion occupied by the Telegraph and Telephone Posts and extends to a width of 30 meters from the Tracks.

So the ROW of PNR is 15 meters on both sides totalling 30 meters. 30 Meters is more than enough for a double track rail
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Old April 25th, 2018, 03:31 PM   #260
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Teka pala is this a single track or dual track and is this electrified?
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