TRANSPORT | City Region - Page 278 - SkyscraperCity
 

forums map | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > European Forums > UK & Ireland Architecture Forums > Projects and Construction > Leeds Metro Area > Leeds City Region Transport Projects

Leeds City Region Transport Projects Transport proposals and developments


Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old January 9th, 2020, 10:59 PM   #5541
Leeds No.1
Registered User
 
Leeds No.1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Leeds, EU
Posts: 28,972
Likes (Received): 2707

I've always personally been a big fan of the Class 333s. Weren't they designed to have even more powerful acceleration on the hilly routes they run?
__________________
Check out my travel vlogs on my YouTube
Leeds No.1 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old January 9th, 2020, 11:53 PM   #5542
Cuboid
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Leeds
Posts: 451
Likes (Received): 188

Quote:
Originally Posted by oyster View Post
Caught my first Class 331 train today on the Wharfedale line. Hope this soon means the end of the handful of Class 322s running on the line but despite being brand new I don’t think they’re necessarily better than the quality Class 333s that generally run the route. Lots of tables which is nice when quiet but I’m not sure how practical they’ll be on a packed commuter service - surely not a good idea and are there not many fewer seats for the tables and having only 4 seats across rather than 5 as on the 333s? The seats are pretty hard, seats don’t line up with windows, they make a loud noise like a vacuum cleaner when on-board and the overall build quality seems inferior to that of some new trains. Also prefer the information screens being above the central corridor too rather than above the seats on partition walls. Still, I’m nitpicking and if you’re used to a Pacer every day then the diesel version of these trains will feel like you’ve teleported into the distant future. Presume still no news on any platform lengthening to allow for six car formations?
I think they're a similar design to the 195s running Leeds > Manc Vic via Bradford.

Nicer than the old stuff on that route for me so at least I'm more likely to get a seat & air-conditioning too but too many tables for a commuter train and poor lining up of seats to windows. Least the NVH is lower and quieter than older diesel trains.

Major design flaw for me (probs for 331 too) is lack of grab bars & handles in the door vestibule area (like in the roof, or above the door). As they're designed for people to stand in these areas more than old ones there is a distinct lack of them. The issue comes to head if you're the unlucky few stood bang in the middle of the door floor area - you have nothing to hold onto and it's too far to reach the bars around. I nearly deck it half a dozen times due to the 'grabby' brakes.
__________________

LS6 liked this post
Cuboid no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 10th, 2020, 11:05 AM   #5543
oyster
Registered User
 
oyster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Leeds
Posts: 2,505
Likes (Received): 509

TRANSPORT | City Region

The issue of the grab rails is something I didn’t pick up on at the time but you’re absolutely right. Unless Northern thought they were going to solve all their overcrowding issues with no people standing then this is a huge oversight and smacks of Northern not really putting any real thought into the practicality of their new trains - a real schoolboy error! I can sort of forgive it on longer slightly distance route such as Leeds > Man Vic but seems especially silly on a 30 minute one. Would be interested to hear anyone’s experience of them at peak times - surely we’ll hear of problems soon. The door vestibule areas do seem slightly bigger than the 333s so I imagine we’ll see lots of tightly packed people there (with nothing to hold onto).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leeds No.1 View Post
I've always personally been a big fan of the Class 333s. Weren't they designed to have even more powerful acceleration on the hilly routes they run?
Quite possibly - they’re a pretty powerful unit and just a quality piece of kit all round - in fact, I was quite surprised to see them running in Yorkshire given their sister units, 332s, are good enough for the London > Heathrow route - surely we are not worthy!

Looking forward to seeing the back of Northern purely for its terrible train liveries - surely the weakest branding of all the TOCs.

Last edited by oyster; January 10th, 2020 at 11:18 AM.
oyster no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 10th, 2020, 01:17 PM   #5544
Cuboid
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Leeds
Posts: 451
Likes (Received): 188

Quote:
Originally Posted by oyster View Post
The issue of the grab rails is something I didn’t pick up on at the time but you’re absolutely right. Unless Northern thought they were going to solve all their overcrowding issues with no people standing then this is a huge oversight and smacks of Northern not really putting any real thought into the practicality of their new trains - a real schoolboy error! I can sort of forgive it on longer slightly distance route such as Leeds > Man Vic but seems especially silly on a 30 minute one. Would be interested to hear anyone’s experience of them at peak times - surely we’ll hear of problems soon. The door vestibule areas do seem slightly bigger than the 333s so I imagine we’ll see lots of tightly packed people there (with nothing to hold onto).



Quite possibly - they’re a pretty powerful unit and just a quality piece of kit all round - in fact, I was quite surprised to see them running in Yorkshire given their sister units, 332s, are good enough for the London > Heathrow route - surely we are not worthy!

Looking forward to seeing the back of Northern purely for its terrible train liveries - surely the weakest branding of all the TOCs.
Yep - it seems like they didn't necessarily build a mock-up and get real world people to test as in a simulator for the handles. The 16:42 Leeds to Chester service is allocated as a 195 and is frequently overcrowded (on the 195 3-car ones) so it's very obvious when setting off if you happen to be stuck in the middle with no access to a handle, esp leaving P6 to all the movement over the points with all the jarring & bumping as the train switches tracks.

For the 333s - I think these were financed or bought by Metro/WYCA back in the day specifically for use on the Airedale line when it was electrified properly. Hence why they don't appear elsewhere as I think Metro/WYCA may still have some form of ownership over it. That could explain why they were in the red 'M' livery and not the older purple Northern one until they were fully re-done to Northern Railway 'white' as part of PRM mods.
Cuboid no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 12th, 2020, 12:00 AM   #5545
Val Verde
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Leeds
Posts: 8,796
Likes (Received): 555

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuboid View Post
Yep - it seems like they didn't necessarily build a mock-up and get real world people to test as in a simulator for the handles. The 16:42 Leeds to Chester service is allocated as a 195 and is frequently overcrowded (on the 195 3-car ones) so it's very obvious when setting off if you happen to be stuck in the middle with no access to a handle, esp leaving P6 to all the movement over the points with all the jarring & bumping as the train switches tracks.

For the 333s - I think these were financed or bought by Metro/WYCA back in the day specifically for use on the Airedale line when it was electrified properly. Hence why they don't appear elsewhere as I think Metro/WYCA may still have some form of ownership over it. That could explain why they were in the red 'M' livery and not the older purple Northern one until they were fully re-done to Northern Railway 'white' as part of PRM mods.




When the electrification of the Leeds - Bradford Forster Square / Skipton / Ilkley railway lines had taken place the original intention was to acquire Class 323's as used around Birmingham and Manchester although the privatisation of British Rail resulted in the cancellation of the plans which instead saw the use of tired old Class 308's which were used between London and Essex and latterly briefly in the West Midlands. Certainly the 308's were anachronistic old trains when they were in use which long required replacement by the time the 333's were introduced: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_323

Also it is worth noting that the Class 323's were built at the now closed Hunslet train factory in Leeds.

As for overcrowding on the 195's and 331's it does certainly seem typical Northern Rail to introduce new rolling stock which does nothing to solve overcrowding and surely consideration should have been given to either introduce more frequent or longer trains to alleviate such overcrowding. Also many more railway lines around West Yorkshire really should be electrified.

Last edited by Val Verde; January 12th, 2020 at 01:45 PM.
Val Verde no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 


Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT +2. The time now is 06:00 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us