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Old August 17th, 2017, 07:12 PM   #121
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Exactly. Also, a little tangent...Im really not sure why LA gets the wrap about low attendance. We, as a whole, are amazing fans. Its so interesting to me that Philly or NY dont get the shit we do when, in fact, they have just as fickle of fans as we do. Lets look at Philadelphia... 76ers and Phillies have atrocious attendance. NY... Islanders, Mets, Nets, Red Bulls, Devils... all towards the bottom of attendance lists annually. I think LA has it even harder than those cities since we have 2 massive college programs so we have 4 additional teams that require support.

Exactly. It's incredibly annoying how LA is the only one that seems to get constantly attacked for not filling up the stadium every single time.


Yet when I see games in another markets most of their stadiums are rarely full yet they get passes and are considered passionate fans. This crap needs to stop. I guess crowd watching has become a spectator sport in it of itself? People are so focused on it. When did that happen?
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Old August 18th, 2017, 01:21 AM   #122
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Exactly. It's incredibly annoying how LA is the only one that seems to get constantly attacked for not filling up the stadium every single time.

Yet when I see games in another markets most of their stadiums are rarely full yet they get passes and are considered passionate fans. This crap needs to stop. I guess crowd watching has become a spectator sport in it of itself? People are so focused on it. When did that happen?
Comes with the territory. When you are the big dog you attract attention, hatred and jealousy.
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Old August 18th, 2017, 05:05 PM   #123
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Exactly. It's incredibly annoying how LA is the only one that seems to get constantly attacked for not filling up the stadium every single time.


Yet when I see games in another markets most of their stadiums are rarely full yet they get passes and are considered passionate fans. This crap needs to stop. I guess crowd watching has become a spectator sport in it of itself? People are so focused on it. When did that happen?
LA is far from the only market people criticize for not filling up their stadiums.

https://twitter.com/EmptySeatsPics
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Old August 18th, 2017, 10:06 PM   #124
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LA is far from the only market people criticize for not filling up their stadiums.

https://twitter.com/EmptySeatsPics
I understand and follow empty seats galore. Its not a huge deal,just mildly irritating that we get this unwarranted bad wrap
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Old August 19th, 2017, 06:14 PM   #125
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I understand and follow empty seats galore. Its not a huge deal,just mildly irritating that we get this unwarranted bad wrap
For sure, getting a "bad wrap" would leave a bad taste in your mouth.
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Old August 21st, 2017, 03:25 AM   #126
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How is the view for football? I know when they go to Wembley first few rows have to be tarped off.
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Old August 21st, 2017, 04:00 PM   #127
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The game looked great last night, it looked like some of the new small college stadiums
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Old August 24th, 2017, 10:48 PM   #128
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A sunny (some might say too sunny ) article from Vinny about the Chargers' experience so far at StubHub (emphasis mine):



Quote:
Bonsignore: Despite what you may have heard, Chargers are not freaking out over L.A. move

The Chargers will take their Fight for L.A. to the field on Saturday, their opponent the very roommates they’ll eventually share a stadium with.

But then, this whole Fight for L.A. thing was never a direct challenge by the Chargers to the Rams, who they’ll play Saturday night at the Coliseum in each team’s third preseason game.

It’s a heck of a thing, how all that got misconstrued. As if the Chargers actually thought they could waltz into Los Angeles and start singling out foes to conquer. Who’s next after the Rams?

The Lakers? Dodgers?

Nonsense.

On the contrary, the Chargers abundantly understood their decision to move to Los Angeles wasn’t on par with the Rams returning home from St. Louis.

And they clearly understood they faced considerable challenges building a Los-Angeles-and-vicinity fan base almost entirely from the ground up.

It’s why they aren’t freaking out over the 21,000 or so fans that showed up in each of their first two preseason games at the 27,000-seat StubHub Center. In fact, Chargers owner Dean Spanos got a pretty good laugh when I asked him about any buyer’s remorse based on the turnout the first two weeks.

Based on my conversations with Spanos, he remains ecstatic with the decision to relocate to Los Angeles and is fully engaged in figuring out how the Chargers can create a strong niche for themselves in the crowded Los Angeles sports market.

And he’s pleased thus far with where the Chargers are, ticket-wise.

The Chargers have sold out all their season tickets for 2017, at the highest ticket price in the league. But as is the case across the NFL, getting season ticket holders to show up to preseason games can be a challenge. Percentage-wise, the Chargers no-shows the last two weeks and the unused tickets from the 2,000 or so allotment all teams hold for each game are on par with the rest of the league.

Same was true, percentage-wise, in San Diego, where the Chargers would draw 45,000 fans to preseason games in their 68,000-seat stadium. By the time the regular-season rolled around, they were drawing 68,000 fans.

It’s pretty much the norm around the NFL.

Stands to reason, then, they aren’t freaking out that all their StubHub Center season-ticket holders didn’t show up to exhibition games.
http://www.ocregister.com/2017/08/23...over-l-a-move/
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Old August 24th, 2017, 11:05 PM   #129
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So the Chargers seem happy, at least in public. And I'm sure Spanos is enjoying the bump in franchise valuation! But the Chargers can be easily "Clipper'd" by the Rams.

...Which leads me to a conspiracy theory I've been formulating about the Chargers and Inglewood. I'll pitch it to the forum and see what you all think:

LA Stadium, as incredible as it is, was still the second choice for the Chargers, who wanted their own stadium in Carson. In point of fact, the Chargers (and the Raiders) weren't the only aggrieved party in Kroenke's plans. The other was AEG, who saw their own plans fall by the wayside as the league favored the Hollywood Park Site (and with good reason IMO). Well, AEG also runs the StubHub center, where the Chargers are playing for the next three years obviously. And AEG and Spanos have spent some time building a relationship together to stage games in Carson.
So despite their working relationship, I'm sure there's still some bad blood between Kroenke and Spanos, to say nothing of AEG. And these two spurned parties are working together with StubHub field. If their plans align again, you know where else they could play football? That's right...




Farmers Field!

As far as I know, the Convention Center land is still fully entitled for a 60,000 plus seat football stadium, and it wouldn't take much time at all really to get the project shovel ready. The only thing stopping AEG before was the lack of an NFL partner. And in fact before Inglewood came along, the franchise that was closest to moving to Farmers Field was none other than the Chargers, who apparently came this close to moving but balked at the ownership requirements of AEG. Well, now AEG finds itself in a precarious position in the LA sports landscape. StubHub center is becoming old news fast with the arrival of LAFC, and their crown jewel, Staples Center/LA Live, is facing serious competition with the upcoming sports and entertainment district in Inglewood, especially if the Clippers move there. So what better way to bring attention back to downtown than with a shiny new stadium? And what better way to strike their own identity in LA then to be the sole tenant of a brand new stadium?

So is StubHub the start of a long term relationship between AEG and the Chargers? Honestly, probably not, but it's fun to imagine!
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Old August 25th, 2017, 12:50 AM   #130
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Lease is already signed I imagine. Rams aren't letting Spanos walk for competing stadium. And their lease is really good.
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Old August 25th, 2017, 12:57 AM   #131
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Yep you are right, the Chargers' lease is fantastic for them; it's something like $1 a year for 30 years, AND they get a cut of ancillary revenue to boot!
Honestly having looked into it just in passing, the scenario above will really only come to pass if the Chargers truly struggle in the LA market. I've read that apparently, the way the lease is structured, Kroenke can kick out the Chargers if they can't sell a certain amount of PSLs to put towards the construction costs of the stadium. I.E. if the Chargers can't sell PSLs and season tickets on their own to offset stadium construction costs, then they aren't bringing in the revenue to justify their very generous residency terms at LA Stadium. Therefore Kroenke can kick them out and keep all ancillary income to himself.
And so, IF the Chargers can't bring in the necessary money to the LA Stadium project AND Kroenke kicks them out... then I can see Spanos (or whoever owns the LA Chargers at that time!) going hat in hand to AEG and building their own venue on the fully entitled land at the LA Convention Center, whether that would be the Farmers Field pictured above or a brand new design.

ETA: Of course, Kroenke can envision this as well, and he doesn't want a competing stadium in the LA area either. AND if the Chargers are really having that kind of trouble drawing, then AEG may not want to take such a risk. So yeah, all in all highly unlikely, but stranger things have happened!
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Old August 25th, 2017, 07:34 AM   #132
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As far as I know, the Convention Center land is still fully entitled for a 60,000 plus seat football stadium, and it wouldn't take much time at all really to get the project shovel ready. The only thing stopping AEG before was the lack of an NFL partner. And in fact before Inglewood came along, the franchise that was closest to moving to Farmers Field was none other than the Chargers, who apparently came this close to moving but balked at the ownership requirements of AEG. Well, now AEG finds itself in a precarious position in the LA sports landscape. StubHub center is becoming old news fast with the arrival of LAFC, and their crown jewel, Staples Center/LA Live, is facing serious competition with the upcoming sports and entertainment district in Inglewood, especially if the Clippers move there. So what better way to bring attention back to downtown than with a shiny new stadium? And what better way to strike their own identity in LA then to be the sole tenant of a brand new stadium?

So is StubHub the start of a long term relationship between AEG and the Chargers? Honestly, probably not, but it's fun to imagine!
This is all theoretically possible, but I think it's pretty unlikely. I could see this happening in 30 years or so, if the Chargers are able to do well enough that they can go out on their own for a new stadium. If they can't attract a fan base over time, I think it's more likely that they would consider the LA market unfit for 2 teams and look elsewhere - San Diego, Oakland, & London would be the obvious possibilities - for relocation.

To be honest, I have a feeling that both the Rams and the Chargers will struggle somewhat until they are able to field strong teams. The LA market has a tendency to move in extremes - championship contenders sell out their stadiums, while teams that struggle will only fill 2/3 of the seats. The Lakers are really the only exception to this, because they have such a strong history and international presence.

The Rams certainly have a head start on winning over the LA market because of their history here, but if the Chargers can compete for championships you'll see a ton of people flip allegiances.
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Old August 25th, 2017, 03:58 PM   #133
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I'm sure the article was so happy because everyone roasted the Rams first game last year. They made it sound like a 3rd world country waiting on supplies from the Gov. lol
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Old August 25th, 2017, 06:42 PM   #134
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Originally Posted by aquamaroon View Post
So the Chargers seem happy, at least in public. And I'm sure Spanos is enjoying the bump in franchise valuation! But the Chargers can be easily "Clipper'd" by the Rams.

...Which leads me to a conspiracy theory I've been formulating about the Chargers and Inglewood. I'll pitch it to the forum and see what you all think:

LA Stadium, as incredible as it is, was still the second choice for the Chargers, who wanted their own stadium in Carson. In point of fact, the Chargers (and the Raiders) weren't the only aggrieved party in Kroenke's plans. The other was AEG, who saw their own plans fall by the wayside as the league favored the Hollywood Park Site (and with good reason IMO). Well, AEG also runs the StubHub center, where the Chargers are playing for the next three years obviously. And AEG and Spanos have spent some time building a relationship together to stage games in Carson.
So despite their working relationship, I'm sure there's still some bad blood between Kroenke and Spanos, to say nothing of AEG. And these two spurned parties are working together with StubHub field. If their plans align again, you know where else they could play football? That's right...




Farmers Field!

As far as I know, the Convention Center land is still fully entitled for a 60,000 plus seat football stadium, and it wouldn't take much time at all really to get the project shovel ready. The only thing stopping AEG before was the lack of an NFL partner. And in fact before Inglewood came along, the franchise that was closest to moving to Farmers Field was none other than the Chargers, who apparently came this close to moving but balked at the ownership requirements of AEG. Well, now AEG finds itself in a precarious position in the LA sports landscape. StubHub center is becoming old news fast with the arrival of LAFC, and their crown jewel, Staples Center/LA Live, is facing serious competition with the upcoming sports and entertainment district in Inglewood, especially if the Clippers move there. So what better way to bring attention back to downtown than with a shiny new stadium? And what better way to strike their own identity in LA then to be the sole tenant of a brand new stadium?

So is StubHub the start of a long term relationship between AEG and the Chargers? Honestly, probably not, but it's fun to imagine!
I will assume this is a joke.

First, remember that Spanos has an equity position in Inglewood. Zero chance for him to be legally involved in anything downtown unless he gets out of that and the NFL is in no mood for more problems for a decade.

Second, the NFL and city would kill it. Does ANYBODY think LA needs another football stadium, especially in a cramped spot that messes up DT 10 times a year?

Third, the first proposal DT failed because AEG needed to own half the team for the numbers to work. Ask Spanos about that.

Fourth, if you are uprooting again, anywhere in the OC would make more sense for the Chargers.
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Old August 25th, 2017, 06:52 PM   #135
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This is all theoretically possible, but I think it's pretty unlikely. I could see this happening in 30 years or so, if the Chargers are able to do well enough that they can go out on their own for a new stadium. If they can't attract a fan base over time, I think it's more likely that they would consider the LA market unfit for 2 teams and look elsewhere - San Diego, Oakland, & London would be the obvious possibilities - for relocation.

To be honest, I have a feeling that both the Rams and the Chargers will struggle somewhat until they are able to field strong teams. The LA market has a tendency to move in extremes - championship contenders sell out their stadiums, while teams that struggle will only fill 2/3 of the seats. The Lakers are really the only exception to this, because they have such a strong history and international presence.

The Rams certainly have a head start on winning over the LA market because of their history here, but if the Chargers can compete for championships you'll see a ton of people flip allegiances.
In 30 years London will already have two teams and there will be several others in Europe plus a full league (8 teams minimum) in China. In any event, moves are dictated by the NFL not by where Spanos wants to go.

Otherwise, I wouldn't even speculate what is happening city by city 30 years from now.

And the exceptions to your rule include not only the Lakers, but the Dodgers, Angels, Kings and Ducks, all of whom sell out or sell remarkable numbers for teams that have very mixed performances over the years.
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Old August 26th, 2017, 02:50 AM   #136
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This is all theoretically possible, but I think it's pretty unlikely. I could see this happening in 30 years or so, if the Chargers are able to do well enough that they can go out on their own for a new stadium. If they can't attract a fan base over time, I think it's more likely that they would consider the LA market unfit for 2 teams and look elsewhere - San Diego, Oakland, & London would be the obvious possibilities - for relocation.

To be honest, I have a feeling that both the Rams and the Chargers will struggle somewhat until they are able to field strong teams. The LA market has a tendency to move in extremes - championship contenders sell out their stadiums, while teams that struggle will only fill 2/3 of the seats. The Lakers are really the only exception to this, because they have such a strong history and international presence.

The Rams certainly have a head start on winning over the LA market because of their history here, but if the Chargers can compete for championships you'll see a ton of people flip allegiances.
Not true at all. This is seriously a very odd and incorrect statement that has survived for far too long. The Kings, Lakers, Dodgers, Clippers, USC Football, Angels... they all draw well even when they suck. The Kings used to draw 95 - 98% of capacity before they won the cup. The Clippers used to draw near capacity years before they became a perennial playoff team, the Dodgers have always been top 5 in attendance, even when they were horrible, the Angels draw 38,000 a game and havent been good in years.
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Old August 26th, 2017, 02:52 AM   #137
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What i would really like to see instead of Farmers field is a new, 40,000 seat stadium for the Galaxy. That would be awesome.

Getting in and out of Stubhub is an immense headache and i personally know tons of fans that dont go to games just because they dont want to deal with the headache. A centrally located stadium next to so many rail lines, bars, restaurants and so on would be the best game experience in the league. AEG needs to do it.
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Old August 26th, 2017, 04:15 AM   #138
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What i would really like to see instead of Farmers field is a new, 40,000 seat stadium for the Galaxy. That would be awesome.

Getting in and out of Stubhub is an immense headache and i personally know tons of fans that dont go to games just because they dont want to deal with the headache. A centrally located stadium next to so many rail lines, bars, restaurants and so on would be the best game experience in the league. AEG needs to do it.
An excellent idea and there should be no franchise ownership issue.

But I wonder about two stadiums so close together. Not only are the optics bad, but you would think there would be some better use for that land than adding another stadium when there are 4 others within 2 or 3 miles.

Last edited by pesto; August 26th, 2017 at 04:25 AM.
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Old August 26th, 2017, 09:45 AM   #139
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Not true at all. This is seriously a very odd and incorrect statement that has survived for far too long. The Kings, Lakers, Dodgers, Clippers, USC Football, Angels... they all draw well even when they suck. The Kings used to draw 95 - 98% of capacity before they won the cup. The Clippers used to draw near capacity years before they became a perennial playoff team, the Dodgers have always been top 5 in attendance, even when they were horrible, the Angels draw 38,000 a game and havent been good in years.
I didn't mean it as an insult - I'm a fan and/or season ticket holder of 3 of the teams you mentioned!

What I said is based on facts:
-The Kings were 22nd in the NHL in attendance as recently as '08-09.
-The Dodgers averaged 36,236/game (11th in MLB, 64.7% of capacity) as recently as 2011 - they were dealing with the disaster that was the McCourts, I know.
-The Clippers were 22nd in the NBA in attendance as recently as '08-09.
-The Angels are weirdly consistent in their attendance - they seem to always finish between 5th-7th in MLB since they won the World Series.
-The Ducks were 26th in the NHL in attendance as recently as '11-12.
-USC football averaged 68,459/game last season - they'll average 80,000+ this season if they can live up to their expectations.
-UCLA football averaged 67,459/game last season - they averaged 76,650 in '14 when they were viewed as national title contenders.

My point isn't that the LA market has bad fans or is incapable of drawing crowds. My point certainly isn't that people are "too busy going to the beach" - a dumb cliche, particularly in the 2nd half of the football season. My point is that when you play in a market with 8 major professional franchises, 2 major colleges, and (soon to be) 2 MLS teams, somebody's always going to be up and somebody's always going to be down. This means that every franchise is in a constant competition for attention, and the only surefire way to get it is to win.
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Old August 26th, 2017, 11:42 AM   #140
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I didn't mean it as an insult - I'm a fan and/or season ticket holder of 3 of the teams you mentioned!

What I said is based on facts:
-The Kings were 22nd in the NHL in attendance as recently as '08-09.
-The Dodgers averaged 36,236/game (11th in MLB, 64.7% of capacity) as recently as 2011 - they were dealing with the disaster that was the McCourts, I know.
-The Clippers were 22nd in the NBA in attendance as recently as '08-09.
-The Angels are weirdly consistent in their attendance - they seem to always finish between 5th-7th in MLB since they won the World Series.
-The Ducks were 26th in the NHL in attendance as recently as '11-12.
-USC football averaged 68,459/game last season - they'll average 80,000+ this season if they can live up to their expectations.
-UCLA football averaged 67,459/game last season - they averaged 76,650 in '14 when they were viewed as national title contenders.

My point isn't that the LA market has bad fans or is incapable of drawing crowds. My point certainly isn't that people are "too busy going to the beach" - a dumb cliche, particularly in the 2nd half of the football season. My point is that when you play in a market with 8 major professional franchises, 2 major colleges, and (soon to be) 2 MLS teams, somebody's always going to be up and somebody's always going to be down. This means that every franchise is in a constant competition for attention, and the only surefire way to get it is to win.
I'll add that a lot of sports fans get their noses in the air about markets that are "fair weather fans" to which I say EVERY market is a fair weather market.

In the 2003-2004 NHL season, Pittsburgh, Chicago, and Boston (all poster child franchises of the league, each with long sellout streaks now) were ALL in the bottom 10 of attendance in the league, and were ALL being outdrawn by both Phoenix and Florida (two teams that are regularly in the relocation discussion). All 3 were going through an extended period of poor performance. Stop winning and even the "best" fans will stop watching.
http://www.espn.com/nhl/attendance/_/year/2004

If a team is regularly winning and still can't attract fans, that's when there's a problem.

A friend of mine had a good analogy; Imagine this same attitude applied to any other entertainment or service industry. Imagine you've been a loyal customer to a restaurant that's made great food and great atmosphere for a very long time. Despite all of the other dining options, you keep choosing that restaurant. Then at some point, after a change of chef/ownership, the food starts to really suck, service becomes terrible, the atmosphere drops off, etc. Are you required to continue going to the same restaurant lest you be labelled a "fair weather foodie"?
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