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Old December 5th, 2006, 11:25 AM   #21
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Great pics! You want to see the hole they dug out for the new shakhtar stadium in Ukraine equally impressive if not bigger!
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Old December 5th, 2006, 03:58 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rantanamo View Post
I would go to dallasnews.com and search the archive. You'll see the legal disclaimer even though it really isn't much to see. Just one small view from outside of one end. According to the Cowboys, its not even a final design.
I read the article on dallasnews.com and was interested to see this:

Quote:
stadium will seat about 75,000.

The drawings also give a hint of who might share the stadium with the Cowboys. The diagrams show the location of the locker room for the Dallas Desperados, the arena league football team owned by Jerry Jones.

The Desperados now play at American Airlines Center in Dallas.
OK, so how about this for a piece of idle speculation based on the merest scrap of evidence?

I reckon the "unique design feature" that is keeping this ultra top secret is a facility to turn the field-sized stadium into an court-sized arena.

I expect it to involve one or two movable end stands to transform the short ends of the 'field' orientation into the long sides of the 'arena' orientation.

Moving a three-tier stand back and forwards over 100yds is not a new concept. For years, the old Mile High Stadium in Denver used this principle to move one stand back to accommodate a baseball diamond.

I anticipate an arena configuration with a capacity of around 25,000-30,000 given a stadium configuration with a capacity of around 75,000-90,000. This would be designed to compete with the American Airlines Center for concerts and other events befitting a venue of this type.

No-one can tell me I'm wrong yet and only time will tell but I'm sure someone will try. Whether I am actually right or not is almost beside the point. Can anyone else come up with a better reason for all this secrecy?

Near-pointless speculation and conjecture is a large part of these forums anyway...
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Old December 5th, 2006, 08:48 PM   #23
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So basically you're saying it would be the Super Saitama Arena x 10? If they were to do this, it would be unique for such a large venue, with a retractable roof. I guess its possible. Look for tracks to show up soon if its so.

I think the whole security thing has something to do with field level suites. Having played at Texas Stadium, I'd imagine you'd be opening up lots of vulnerabilities by opening up that part of the stadium to whomever pays to be there.

I think the 'trade secret' has something to do with the roof and the two huge arches. Looking at the construction pics, you can see the two arch bases on each side. The roof will somehow ride these arches and be probably the largest of its kind in the world.

I don't know what to think of with the Desperadoes. Would it really be cost effective to add such an expensive feature to this stadium for concerts and arena football? I guess it might make sense, but they can never accoustically compete with the AAC, nor will they have a Victory surrounding the stadium. They've already mentioned large concerts and conventions. BTW, the Desperadoes already practice at Texas Stadium, so a locker room would make sense. Also, they have never drawn close to 20,000/game. They rarely even sell out while in the playoffs. But who knows, this is Jerrah, the great suburban developer.

Its true that no one knows what to expect here. The guy has a ton of money and is making a ton of money. He could do anything with it. It will always just be a suburban stadium in the middle of a parking lot, in the middle of a suburban hell to me. He had so much opportunity to really do something memorable and more than just a great stadium. Instead, he chose politics and sided with a city who thinks its too good to have bus or rail service.
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Old December 5th, 2006, 10:26 PM   #24
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these were posted online at:
http://www.stadiumsofnfl.com/future/CowboysStadium.htm
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Old December 6th, 2006, 02:21 AM   #25
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Moving seats to reconfigure the stadium is not new. Quite a few stadiums in North America have the ability to do that. One prime example is San Antonio's Alamodome. 65000 for football 20000+ for basketball.
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Old December 6th, 2006, 07:33 AM   #26
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Those are the conceptual renderings I mentioned earlier. The small rendering released looks nothing like it.

Quote:
Moving seats to reconfigure the stadium is not new. Quite a few stadiums in North America have the ability to do that. One prime example is San Antonio's Alamodome. 65000 for football 20000+ for basketball.
What we are talking about is something different. Google Super Saitama Arena, and you will see what we're talking about. We're not talking about moving stands(Mile High, Astrodome/Cinergy clones) or temp stands like the Domes use. We're talking about moving half of the building itself.
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Old December 7th, 2006, 01:46 AM   #27
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The actual plans, renderings, and a 3D fly-through will be unveiled next Tuesday.
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Old December 7th, 2006, 04:30 AM   #28
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The actual plans, renderings, and a 3D fly-through will be unveiled next Tuesday.
Seriously? Where did you find this info? Will there be an official unveiling or just some leak?
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Old December 7th, 2006, 05:52 AM   #29
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A poster by the name of Theebs posted the info on CowboysZone earlier today. He said that he heard it from hearing the Brad Sham show with MBIII and Rocket Ismail.
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Old December 10th, 2006, 10:46 PM   #30
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New, very interesting article.

Quote:
Cowboys officials say venue will offer fun for all fans, but some aren't so sure


01:05 AM CST on Sunday, December 10, 2006
By MICHAEL GRANBERRY / The Dallas Morning News

From the moment team president Tex Schramm spotted luxury suites at a soccer stadium in Mexico City and decided to import the concept to the new Texas Stadium, the Dallas Cowboys have been trendsetters in design and in pulling every conceivable dollar from the building where they play.

Their new stadium, whose closely guarded secrets will be unveiled at a gala Tuesday night in Arlington, promises to carry many of the attributes that Texans hold dear. The cost of the stadium has swelled to $1 billion. Expectations are for nothing less than the biggest and the best of its kind, easily the most lavish of any stadium anywhere in the world.

The retractable-roof venue, with a capacity of 80,000 and ranging up to 100,000 for select events, is expected to deliver on much of what Arlington residents hoped for in voting to finance $325 million of the stadium's cost, or half its original estimate. It should elevate the city's profile while serving as a magnet for marquee events.

"The Cowboys are one of the world's premier sports franchises, and their new stadium promises to reflect that status," said Greg Aiello, spokesman for the National Football League. "The facility will be a tremendous new asset to the Dallas-Fort Worth community. It will certainly take the experience of attending Cowboys games to an entirely new level and will benefit the region in many positive ways, both tangibly and otherwise."

Others, however, worry more about the intangibles. While the stadium figures to make good on much of its bounty – hosting the Super Bowl, the NCAA Final Four basketball championship, college football's Bowl Championship Series title game and maybe even the annual Texas-Oklahoma game – critics are concerned about a deeper, sociological issue.

New stadiums, increasingly dependent on both taxpayer revenue and the wealthiest customers it can place in the seats, run the risk, many say, of widening the gulf between the haves and have-nots.

"Sports is inseparable from society," said Dr. Harry Edwards, professor emeritus at the University of California at Berkeley and a consultant to the San Francisco 49ers, who are soliciting his advice about their own new-stadium issues. "The reality is that we're leaving increasing numbers of people behind."

'Better deal'
Cowboys owner Jerry Jones, who spearheaded the stadium project, said Friday that the taxpayers of Arlington are getting "a better deal than they thought." Costs for the team's new home recently jumped to $1 billion, he said, leaving the city's capped contribution at "about a third." Mr. Jones sees the stadium as having great benefit for all fans, regardless of income.

"I say that with excitement, because we're going to have a venue here for them that, frankly, will be the most visible building in this country," he said.

"My reason and rationale behind that is, we know the visibility of the NFL. All you've got to do is look at the ratings and the programming that we see daily. Within the NFL, the No. 1 television team is the Dallas Cowboys. And so this venue, apart from what it brings to the table ... is going to have that kind of visibility."

He also cited "flexibility," saying the room to pack in as many as 100,000 fans, some in standing-room-only areas of the end zones, accounts for "a significant contribution to the makeup of our total fan base. We're going to be able to have price plans with our tickets that would allow the fan that can't or doesn't do the suite thing to be a part of this experience."

In addition, he said the stadium will use modern technology "to entertain our fans," regardless of where they sit.

Cowboys executive vice president Stephen Jones, the owner's son, said the viewing experience for all fans will be upgraded dramatically in ways that won't compare even remotely with Texas Stadium.

"We have enhanced what you'll experience, whether you're a premium-seating, club-space fan or a general-admission fan," he said. "We have been very cognizant as we moved through this process to make that experience, no matter what fan you are," a far more impressive experience.

Previous homes
The Arlington structure under construction marks the Cowboys' third generation of stadiums. The first was the Cotton Bowl, devoid of a single luxury suite, where fans from Highland Park and South Dallas parked in the same parking lot and strode as one to the same $6 seats.

Texas Stadium, opened in 1971, represented a departure. Clint Murchison Jr., the team's original owner, and Mr. Schramm, its original president, used a financing system wherein fans purchased construction bonds ranging from $250 to $1,000 per seat to pay the stadium's cost.

Public money was spared, but some complained that Texas Stadium had aggressively redefined the team's clientele, robbing it of the diversity it enjoyed at the Cotton Bowl. Some fans worry that the new stadium, despite being at least partially funded with public money, will carry the same effect – unavoidably.

"I am one of those opposed to using taxpayer dollars for stadiums," said Henry Lawson, executive director of the SouthFair Community Development Corp., located in the shadow of Fair Park, where the team made its debut in 1960 and where many had hoped the Cowboys would return. "In my view, very little ever comes back to the community in the long run."

In recent years, Mr. Lawson has noticed what he calls a fascinating trend at Cowboys games: increasingly large numbers of Hispanics filling the stands.

"This is their team," he said, asking, "What will happen to those people" when the new stadium opens. Will they, too, feel disenfranchised, just as many did when the Cowboys abandoned Fair Park?

Cynthia Gonzalez says that Mr. Lawson is onto something. A longtime Cowboys fan, Ms. Gonzalez said it saddens her to go to games and see fewer families.

"A family of four, with two kids, ought to be able to go to any sporting event for $100," she said. At Texas Stadium, the Cowboys' top ticket price is $93. The minimum is $48. In 1998, its top-of-the-line Platinum suites required a 10-year lease for $2 million (with annual payments of $200,000).

Ms. Gonzalez purchased season tickets in 2005 for her and her nephew but gave them up this season. The total package plus parking cost $1,700, not counting food.

But as a graduate of the University of Texas and one who serves on the Longhorn Foundation Advisory Council, Ms. Gonzalez said she doesn't blame the Cowboys. She's aware of the economic realities of college and professional sports.

Even so, "the reality is that increasingly large numbers of people are being left behind," Dr. Edwards said. "And it's not just people sitting in the stands. There are entire communities in America where people can't afford either cable or satellite television, much less high-definition TVs.

"So what you have is a disconnect between sport and its pool of talent. The rich and the superrich do not produce athletes. They produce politicians and in some cases presidents. It's the working classes and the lower classes that produce most of our athletes. And they come from communities whose residents find it harder and harder to go to the games, and in some cases, watch them on television."

What might have been
The Jones family, which in recent years has made generous donations to Southern Methodist University, the Salvation Army and the Dallas Center for the Performing Arts, said Friday that the stadium represents a victory for the region as a whole.

Gene Jones, wife of the Cowboys' owner, said the interactive Cowboys Experience and Hall of Fame exhibit, which will rise alongside the stadium, should be a favorite destination for schoolchildren and families long after its opening in 2009.

For others, the stadium represents a miscalculation by Dallas officials, whose city would no doubt benefit from an area Super Bowl.

"It's a missed opportunity that in my view will cost us for years to come," said attorney and mayoral candidate Darrell Jordan, who once spearheaded an effort to dome the Cotton Bowl. "I continue to believe that it would have been in the best interests of Dallas for the stadium to have been built in Fair Park.

"The Cowboys would have been able to take credit for helping rejuvenate a vital part of the city. I'm not here to point fingers or lay blame. But it's a shame it didn't happen."

The opportunity to land such a stadium comes around "every 40 to 50 years," Mr. Jordan said, "so, chances are, it won't happen again in our lifetime."

Despite the fact that he wishes "it were here and not there," he, too, sees the reality of what the Cowboys' new home will be – and won't be.

"I won't be surprised at all if it's not a very egalitarian place or that the gulf widens further between fans that can go to the games and fans that can't," Mr. Jordan said. "I don't know what the tickets will cost. ... I can only imagine. It will probably price a lot of people out of the market, but in that respect, pro football is no different from a lot of other sports.

"It really is nothing at all like it was when we sat at the Cotton Bowl, huddled in the cold and the rain. Sadly, those days are gone. In the newest stadiums and even at Texas Stadium, you never really get the same sense. I suppose it's a byproduct of the passage of time."

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Interesting. Cost now @ $1 billion. Capacity now @ 80,000

This article certainly addresses a huge issue right now. The NFL is at the peak of its popularity, and many are wondering if they will price themselves out of the general public because they can. This is similar to the post Ali era in the 80s in boxing here in the US. Prices significantly began to rise at the matches. Television went from network to cable to exclusive premium cable deals to mostly pay-per-view for big matches. The boxing promoters make just as much now, but the sport has totally declined in popularity with the general public. I've read many similar commentaries on the NFL in the last couple of years. The NFL used to be a total free to the air network affair. Enjoying huge ad dollars. Then it started moving a game each week to cable. Then it added some satellite deals for every game and select games being available for free. Now they've moved Monday Night Football to cable as well as having their own cable network that most cable outlets don't carry. I'm betting they end up on PPV and premium cable channels. The owners won't care because there are enough wealthy in the US to finance it. The problem, like in boxing would be the loss in general public popularity, hence a loss in the quality of player over the next decade. Look how quickly boxing has fallen off in the last decade at the highest levels. If soccer wants to thrive in the U.S., this next ten years could be crucial with the NFL going away from the GP. I'd be pushing for as many inner-city venues as I could(even using older NFL stadiums that are being abandoned. Keep the ticket prices low and sell yourself on network television. I hate to see it. The NFL is at the beginning of cutting their own hands off.
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Old December 12th, 2006, 02:21 AM   #31
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good. May the NHL and MLS rise out of the ashes of the NFL and NBA !!
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Old December 12th, 2006, 04:07 AM   #32
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good. May the NHL and MLS rise out of the ashes of the NFL and NBA !!
the NHL won't until it gets a new commissioner.
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Old December 12th, 2006, 07:30 AM   #33
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Old December 12th, 2006, 05:43 PM   #34
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Wow, the renderings are awesome. More to come soon
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Old December 12th, 2006, 06:15 PM   #35
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you think we will get some more by late tonight there Rant?
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Old December 12th, 2006, 06:16 PM   #36
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How about this
http://stadium.dallascowboys.com/
What a great ****** stadium this will be.
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Old December 12th, 2006, 06:17 PM   #37
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Features:

- $1.1 billion dollars(Stadium alone)
- 80,000 permanent seats, expandable to 100,000 through terraces and temporary seating
- 2.3 million square feet
- 4 seating tiers and 4 levels of luxury suites
- dual 50 foot tall x 180 foot wide jumbotrons as well as two 23 x 48 boards facing each endzone
- Retractable roof that opens to replicate Texas Stadium's roof
- supported by two 1,290 foot arches
- 120 foot tall, by 80 foot wide retracting glass walls that will feature 10 panels at each end of the stadium
- retracting glass panels between roof and stands for extra ventilation or completely enclosed modes
- Glass and limestone exterior
- Two large exterior video screens
- New Cowboys ring of honor
- 1600 restrooms(many reversible to gender)
- 286 concession areas and 23 bars or lounges
- 15,000 club seats(huge amount)
- Field level suites with exclusive content and access to team
- FieldTurf surface(no surprise, Jerry loves it)
-

Last edited by rantanamo; December 12th, 2006 at 06:31 PM.
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Old December 12th, 2006, 06:33 PM   #38
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How about this
http://stadium.dallascowboys.com/
What a great ****** stadium this will be.
Holy freak!!! World's Greatest!!!

I will get those pics capped and get the info up.

Last edited by rantanamo; December 12th, 2006 at 06:43 PM.
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Old December 12th, 2006, 06:51 PM   #39
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wow, in terms of amentities, technology, and specs it could very well be.

My favorite parts....

- 120 foot tall, by 80 foot wide retracting glass walls that will feature 10 panels at each end of the stadium
- retracting glass panels between roof and stands for extra ventilation or completely enclosed modes


I think its so cool and important for enclosed stadiums to have such features in order to give good air flow and a feel of visual space and vistas.

I can't beleive those arches are 1,290 feet high. That seems so damn high that I would think that they would be protruding high above the stadium.

I am also surprised they aren't having the natural roll out turf (like AZ's new stadium). Though the jury it still out in my mind on how much I like the concept. The grass could be go completely natural though in the future if they wanted no?

Oh yea, the all glass sides on the outside (it looks like it will be all glass) will look pretty sick I am guessing. It should give a real great effect especially at night.
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Old December 12th, 2006, 06:52 PM   #40
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Wow, very well thought out(except for the location and transportation situation). The building at least. The endzone seating is very well thought out for expansion. For large events like the Superbowl, they can easily add seating with great views. Looks like they followed the trend of more innovative seating bowls with views of the field even when transitioning to different sections of the stadium as well.


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