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Old March 14th, 2019, 05:14 PM   #661
symmetry
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It's all comes down to cost. We can't afford fancy buildings like we used to do (no more empire).

PS. I hate classical architecture with a passion and thankfully we don't have many.

Please can we have some more (neo) gothic buildings to complement the Town Hall, John Rylands and The University Main Building.
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Old March 14th, 2019, 05:20 PM   #662
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Agreed symmetry (apart from your point about classical buildings)

I'm interested to see how 3D printing influences architecture in the coming years. It could provide a cheap way of producing detailed facades without the cost
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Old March 14th, 2019, 05:30 PM   #663
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VDB View Post
Like it or not, the majority of people like old buildings. If you asked people to choose between the Town Hall and Beetham Tower, I bet 80% would prefer the Town Hall...
Most people have little imagination, are averse to change and like what they are used too. Henry Ford said if he asked his customers what they wanted they would ask for a faster horse... If you apply that to 'the majority of people' they'll of course ask for their brick built Barratts home with faux/naff detailing, but bigger office-block sized.....

And beauty is in the eye of the beholder. What you think is a beautiful building is nothing more than your opinion. Your idea of 'beauty' seems to be narrowly focused on fake "Vicwardian" stone and brick building with an over abundance of fussy detailing, I don't think that's what makes a building or street beautiful at all.
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Old March 14th, 2019, 05:34 PM   #664
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Originally Posted by VDB View Post
A lot of newer buildings aren't 'good design' either. Like it or not, the majority of people like old buildings. If you asked people to choose between the Town Hall and Beetham Tower, I bet 80% would prefer the Town Hall. At least



What do you class as 'new'? Modernism certainly isn't - it's been around for nearly 100 years now. Lots of buildings built in Manchester recently copy the modernist style - 1SPS, 2SPS, Cambridge Street, Water Street and XYZ to name a few. I assume you don't like them because they don't look "new" and they "copy" an older style?



I just don't want my city to look like garbage. I think we should be building beautiful buildings and creating beautiful streets, that people want to spend time in and appreciate


Every building ever built draws inspiration from another style.
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Old March 14th, 2019, 06:05 PM   #665
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iheartthenew View Post
Most people have little imagination, are averse to change and like what they are used too. Henry Ford said if he asked his customers what they wanted they would ask for a faster horse... If you apply that to 'the majority of people' they'll of course ask for their brick built Barratts home with faux/naff detailing, but bigger office-block sized.....

And beauty is in the eye of the beholder. What you think is a beautiful building is nothing more than your opinion. Your idea of 'beauty' seems to be narrowly focused on fake "Vicwardian" stone and brick building with an over abundance of fussy detailing, I don't think that's what makes a building or street beautiful at all.
You're effectively calling people stupid just because you don't like their opinions. Cities are for people, regardless of what they regard as beautiful. The fact is: the majority of people prefer older, traditional styles to harsh modern ones. I don't think this necessarily translates into Barratt identikit rubbish either. People can appreciate architecture regardless of whether they have an architecture degree

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Your idea of 'beauty' seems to be narrowly focused on fake "Vicwardian" stone and brick building with an over abundance of fussy detailing, I don't think that's what makes a building or street beautiful at all.
Not sure where you've got this idea from. I appreciate well-designed buildings. It just so happens that the majority of well-designed buildings, streets and neighbourhoods in the UK are those that were built between about 1850 and 1930.

I love some of the Tim Groom/Ollier Smurthwaite stuff being built in Manchester - because it's well-designed. What I don't like are buildings which are harsh, with exposed concrete which looks shit in the UK climate. I don't like buildings which block off historic street patterns. I don't like buildings which are purposefully garish. I don't like buildings adorned in cheap cladding, with blank facades at street level. It just so happens that stuff built between 1950 and 2019 tends to display one or more of the above features.

I don't blindly love anything built before 1930, and I don't blindly loathe anything built after 1950. But stuff built before 1930 tends to feature a lot of the stuff I love about buildings, whereas stuff built after 1950 tends to feature a lot of the stuff I loathe about buildings.
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Old March 15th, 2019, 10:32 AM   #666
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There's a really good exhibition on at the moment at the Manchester Art Gallery, showing Manchester in the 70s, 80s, and today. It's definitely worth a visit:

http://manchesterartgallery.org/exhi...n/martin-parr/
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Old March 15th, 2019, 10:33 AM   #667
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Old March 15th, 2019, 01:18 PM   #668
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VDB View Post
You're effectively calling people stupid just because you don't like their opinions...
No I'm not calling them stupid at all. I'm just pointing out a fairly well understood psychological state that inhibits most people. Sorry if you feel offended by that, its not something I've made up, it's something I know from my studies, career....


Quote:
Not sure where you've got this idea from.

Perhaps your relentless posting of pictures of building from that era or built to look like they are on this and the "architecture yays or nays" thread???


Quote:
It just so happens that the majority of well-designed buildings, streets and neighbourhoods in the UK are those that were built between about 1850 and 1930.
IN YOUR OPINION

(or maybe its just that only the best designed buildings from this era have survived as they were better built and remained useful/relevant for much longer?)


Quote:
I don't like buildings which block off historic street patterns.
The irony being many of your favourite buildings probably blocked off, moved, destroyed what would have been a 'historic' street/pattern when they were built too....
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Old March 15th, 2019, 02:26 PM   #669
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Originally Posted by iheartthenew View Post
Copying what went before, creating a pastiche of an earlier building, is not good design.

More detail =/= better architecture.

That bottom one is f*cking hideous.

I want my new building to look new. Not photocopies of what went before. That is lazy...

I do try and stay out of this thread while you all w*nk off over Prince Charles' preferred naffness...
I think you have to take each building on its merits. Most people would agree that the neogothic buildings in Manchester are some of the best architecture in the city but at the same time, they're a pastiche of a previous era.
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Old March 15th, 2019, 08:55 PM   #670
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Hmmmm

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Every building ever built draws inspiration from another style.
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Old March 15th, 2019, 11:13 PM   #671
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Not just Manchester Justme. Glasgow especially in the UK, but also Brazil, mainland Europe & North American cities too.
Don't get me wrong, I know pretty much every place in the world done stupid things to beautiful buildings. But most of them are individual buildings - even if it were a lot of them.

In cases like this, I can't think of any other western, developed country that completely wiped out every single building including the streets themselves in entire neighbourhoods. Have a look at old maps of Manchester and compare it with today and entire neighbourhoods are gone, with every building and even the streets.

This is a whole different scale.

I also know it's not just Manchester in the UK, but as I said, I don't know of any other city outside the UK in the developed world where this has been done to the same scale. (I will check into Dublin since that was mentioned, but the New York one is still nowhere near the scale of Manchester. Lots of amazing buildings were lost in NY, but the history is still mostly intact - we've lost so much surrounding the city centre.

This is not a dig at Manchester, it's trying to understand the carnage.
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Old March 15th, 2019, 11:23 PM   #672
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Quote:
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Don't get me wrong, I know pretty much every place in the world done stupid things to beautiful buildings. But most of them are individual buildings - even if it were a lot of them.



In cases like this, I can't think of any other western, developed country that completely wiped out every single building including the streets themselves in entire neighbourhoods. Have a look at old maps of Manchester and compare it with today and entire neighbourhoods are gone, with every building and even the streets.



This is a whole different scale.



I also know it's not just Manchester in the UK, but as I said, I don't know of any other city outside the UK in the developed world where this has been done to the same scale.
Pick any city centre in the world then find any large modern city centre shopping centre there you will find old buildings/blocks that have been demolished to make way.

In fact pick any modern city centre development(s) in any country and you'll find wholesale demolition of neighborhoods.

Manchester, I think, has retained a good percentage of its historic (mostly Victorian) buildings.
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Old March 15th, 2019, 11:46 PM   #673
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Originally Posted by symmetry View Post
Pick any city centre in the world then find any large modern city centre shopping centre there you will find old buildings/blocks that have been demolished to make way.

In fact pick any modern city centre development(s) in any country and you'll find wholesale demolition of neighborhoods.

Manchester, I think, has retained a good percentage of its historic (mostly Victorian) buildings.
I'I'm talking about stuff like this, https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoo...layers=168&b=7
Compare how it looked and how it looks now by moving the slider. Nearly every street and every building is gone. This is staggering.

It's the same here: https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoo...layers=168&b=7

and here:https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoo...layers=168&b=7

and here: https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoo...layers=168&b=7

and I can keep going on. Entire swarves of the city are gone, streets that were once there have been leveled with every building removed.

If you can show other parts of the western world outside the UK where such vast parts of the city were totally wiped away, then please show me. I'm honestly interested. But this scale is staggering.

You say pick any city centre in the world... I have, but I don't see this scale of destruction.
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Old March 16th, 2019, 01:34 AM   #674
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This just popped up on my Youtube.

Quite interesting, its not "Old" but its still old, 30 odd years soon passes!

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Old March 16th, 2019, 01:47 AM   #675
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This just popped up on my Youtube.



Quite interesting, its not "Old" but its still old, 30 odd years soon passes!



Great find. Great video.

I have to say I suffer from huge nostalgia for the 80s, especially the early 80s.

As bleak as it was and as hard as it was at times I have rose tinted memories of sunny summers and snowy winters. I even bought a copy of Look-In magazine (1983) from eBay recently.

I've even started listening to early 80s music again.
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Old March 16th, 2019, 11:29 AM   #676
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Thanks Tony.
That was my old stomping ground as I worked at the Co-op on Balloon Street for 30 years, my god didn`t it look scruffy around there, the whole area was rundown and most of it needed to be pulled down excluding the CWS buildings which ironically where replaced by another iconic building without loosing the originals ( now with a fantastic new life ahead of them). Remember going in the Castle and Falcon, Swan with two necks
and Lower Turks Head ( only one that survives to this day), who remembers the Manchester Arms on Corporation Street? that was scruffy
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